Conundrum
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Hiwatts and Gibsons
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Agreed. Even when using the Mesa I generally had a Range Master of some sort or my Sansamp for clesn boost to low l
gain overdrive, a Tone Bender of some sort for raw aggressive higher gain fuzz tones, and either my Systech Harmonic Energizer or a Fuzz Face of some sort for when I wanted extra fat, juicy, fuzzy, and huge sounding squarwave destruction.
And it wasn't because I didn't love the amp's tone. It was because I loved those tones just as much for different things.
Hiwatts and Gibsons
New member
And here's a dude that really knows how to play getting mucb more out of the SLO pedal. Fwiw no I am not pimping mine for sale, it's long gone, but I definitely plan on purchasing another eventually.
Are you referring to a possible preamp pedal in the loop of the Chupacabra? I've seen and thought about utilizing one to answer this problem. This one does have a nice clean if needed: https://www.victoryamps.com/product/v4-sheriff-preamp/
I could put that on my board and switch back and forth from it to the Chupa perhaps?
And thank you for all responses. You all have helped with many ideas.
On edit: It has an effects loop so i can run effects. Good stuff as long as it doesn't effect the Chupa in some way while it's off.
And hello Hiwatts and Gibsons. I took your advice and grabbed a SLO pedal for science. I have a Guitar Center near me and a good friend that works there. He let me take the SLO pedal home for a quick experiment
It sounded as crappy as the MXR 5150 did while on the Plexi era setting on my amp.Turn the SLO pedal on It sounds anemic, raspy and... horrible. Switching the SLO off sends it right back to a full, lush Plexi sound. It's weird! If i switch to the JCM 800 mode and try to dial down the gain as much as possible (which isn't much) and use the SLO it sounds much more full but of course muddy.
I has something to do with the circuitry of this amp. I'm going to write Nik at Ceriatone and ask him why distortion pedals sound like crap on Plexi settings.
Thanks man.
Hiwatts and Gibsons
New member
And hello Hiwatts and Gibsons. I took your advice and grabbed a SLO pedal for science. I have a Guitar Center near me and a good friend that works there. He let me take the SLO pedal home for a quick experiment
Turn the SLO pedal on It sounds anemic, raspy and... horrible. Switching the SLO off sends it right back to a full, lush Plexi sound. It's weird! If i switch to the JCM 800 mode and try to dial down the gain as much as possible (which isn't much) and use the SLO it sounds much more full but of course muddy.
I has something to do with the circuitry of this amp. I'm going to write Nik at Ceriatone and ask him why distortion pedals sound like crap on Plexi settings.
Thanks man.
That sucks. Sorry man. If that pedal with the deep setting on doesn't sound fat and juicy the problem is definitely elsewhere in the signal chain.
One thought, is it possibly one of your cables? You could have a poor connection in one of them.
Yeah, I played the 5150 pedal and the SLO by itself, in front of the amp with no attached pedalboard or anything. I tried multiple cables as well. I don't know, man
Securb
One of Jerry's Kids
Is it original or a clone? I have the TWA version.
Hiwatts and Gibsons
New member
I had the original Systech. Sold it this year. It was my second one. I love them, but with my current amps and pedals I found myself barely using it at all, and it eats up a lot of pedal board space.
I wasn't talking about a preamp pedal in the loop in that post, no - but if you do use a preamp or amp-in-a-box pedal, don't use it in the loop. Use it as a standalone preamp, just going into the effects loop return, so you're using the power section of the amp without its preamp. That might also be a good way to try running that SLO pedal.
Securb
One of Jerry's Kids
Dwiezel uses the TWA on tour now. He was worried about bringing Frank's original units on the road. I strongly suggest checking one out if you are missing your origin Systech. It is also smaller.
Hiwatts and Gibsons
New member
True story. I met Dweezil after a Zappa Does Zappa show, and we talked for a few minutes on the differences between the OG Systech, the TWA Triskellion, and the Lone Wolf Audio Outsider. We both agreed the OG Sytech is the most extreme of the three in range and output. He really digs the Triskellions, but the sound is definitely a little different and it doesn't reach the crazy +55db boost the Systech does substituting higher gain in place of the Systech's insanely high input pummeling output
We both agreed the Outsider had no where near as much output or the same extremes of frequency range in its filter section. I owned one, and while it was a great toneshaping pedal and OD it was underwhelmingly tame after having owned the real thing.
The real Systech's output is so insane it will send a highgain cascading preamp into infinite self oscillation and tunable feedback. Playing with that and a phaser, Tremolo, octave pedal, or delay will do some very extreme and unique noise and sound scape experimentation the Triskellion and Outsider cannot touch.
I still want to get my hands on a TWA Triskellion, and a Fredric Effects Do the Weasel Stomp too.
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misterwhizzy
Well-known member
This is what you need to try. I run my Revv G4 into the loop return of my Origin 50, and it’s amazing. Into the front, totally unusable. I found the same when I had a Friedman BE-OD. Interestingly enough, my Friedman SmallBox pedal sounds fantastic going into the front end. I use a Saturnworks switcher to essentially choose channels.
For what it’s worth, I was always a believer in getting all my gain from the amp, but I’ve changed my mind.
xxxplorer
New member
I only use single channel amps just like this, and I need clean as well. So I do it old school. I use 2 humbucker guitars with independent volumes. I use the neck pickup as my clean channel. And it's fantastic. Great clean tones. I can make the bridge do it too. But I just flip back and forth for clean/dirty with neck/bridge. Works wonders.
Another thing you can do is get an under drive. Where you use an eq pedal or even an over drive and TANK the level to clean it up. Can even throw it in a loop pedal and have a chorus, underdrive and delay in one foot switch.
Another thing you can do is get an under drive. Where you use an eq pedal or even an over drive and TANK the level to clean it up. Can even throw it in a loop pedal and have a chorus, underdrive and delay in one foot switch.
ErikH
Well-known member
I still say a compressor out front will help get you a clean-er tone that will work. But, you can do this too. Dial the gain back on the amp, in Plexi mode. Throw a Tube Screamer out front to get "more" from the amp. Slamming it with a 5150 or SLO is a recipe for disaster. Those pedals need a "clean clean" platform. And no, not an effects loop return bypassing the preamp. Sounds like crap. I know, I have the 5150 pedal and tried that.
So, gain back to 50% or less in Plexi mode.
EQ or Compressor to get a cleaner tone (there are ways)
Tube Screamer or similar overdrive to get more from the amp.
Those 3 things plus working your guitar volume will do that trick. Figure out why rolling the guitar volume back isn't working. Is it a linear pot? Or is it because the amp has so much gain on tap?
I do this a lot myself even though my amp has 2 channels. Sometimes I prefer to leave it on the drive channel and use it like a single-channel amp.
So, gain back to 50% or less in Plexi mode.
EQ or Compressor to get a cleaner tone (there are ways)
Tube Screamer or similar overdrive to get more from the amp.
Those 3 things plus working your guitar volume will do that trick. Figure out why rolling the guitar volume back isn't working. Is it a linear pot? Or is it because the amp has so much gain on tap?
I do this a lot myself even though my amp has 2 channels. Sometimes I prefer to leave it on the drive channel and use it like a single-channel amp.
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donaldr
Well-known member
I'm using my Atomic Firebox as a single channel amp (Cornford MK50 model) using only my pickup selector switch and riding volume for very distorted to clean tone.
To begin with, your neck pickup should get a way cleaner sound than your bridge pickup. With volume at 10, switching from bridge to neck should clear it up.
You need to dial your clean tone first: compressor (as ErikH said) and neck pickup, volume knob at 5 (or less) and tone at 10. Lower your gain until it sounds clean enough and pick lightly.
Then your drive tone: bridge pickup with volume at 10 and tone at 5 (or where ever they sound good). You may have to add a boost pedal to get back to your preferred gain sound.
I was thinking of getting a Vox Valvenergy Silk Drive (in preamp mode) to put in the effects loop of an EVH 5150 Iconic 40w combo for clean sound. I don't have either now but you may have a look at this pedal as the preamp mode is design to go in a power amp (or return of an effects loop) contrary to AIAB pedals (SLO, 5150, etc.) that are designed to go in the front of a clean amp.
To begin with, your neck pickup should get a way cleaner sound than your bridge pickup. With volume at 10, switching from bridge to neck should clear it up.
You need to dial your clean tone first: compressor (as ErikH said) and neck pickup, volume knob at 5 (or less) and tone at 10. Lower your gain until it sounds clean enough and pick lightly.
Then your drive tone: bridge pickup with volume at 10 and tone at 5 (or where ever they sound good). You may have to add a boost pedal to get back to your preferred gain sound.
I was thinking of getting a Vox Valvenergy Silk Drive (in preamp mode) to put in the effects loop of an EVH 5150 Iconic 40w combo for clean sound. I don't have either now but you may have a look at this pedal as the preamp mode is design to go in a power amp (or return of an effects loop) contrary to AIAB pedals (SLO, 5150, etc.) that are designed to go in the front of a clean amp.
Aceman
I am your doctor of love!
I have to agree with the "You have the wrong amp for the job"
Good clean amp that takes pedals well and a couple of choice dirt boxes would serve you better.
Another point - If I'm playing a wide range of material, Amp is out the door for a Modeler/Multi-fx pedal with programable patches.
- 50's Clean? Fender Twin w/ Spring reverb
- 70's Rock? Plexi
- 80's Hair? SD1 + JCM 800
- 80's skinny tie clean? Roland JC120 with chorus and delay
BAM - it's all right there.
Good clean amp that takes pedals well and a couple of choice dirt boxes would serve you better.
Another point - If I'm playing a wide range of material, Amp is out the door for a Modeler/Multi-fx pedal with programable patches.
- 50's Clean? Fender Twin w/ Spring reverb
- 70's Rock? Plexi
- 80's Hair? SD1 + JCM 800
- 80's skinny tie clean? Roland JC120 with chorus and delay
BAM - it's all right there.
Hiwatts and Gibsons
New member
The SLO Pedal sounds amazing into the front ends of my Hiwatt and Reeves Custom 100's, and Matamp GT150. Ymmv
Hiwatts and Gibsons
New member
That depends on a few things.
1. The e particular neck pickup's output vs the bridge pickups output
2. It's height and polescrews height, and the volume settings of each pickup.
3. The placement of the neck and bridge pickups. This is why SG and DC Special, and most 24 fret guitars' neck and bridge pickups tend to sound better balanced volume wise and tone wise vs a Les Paul or Strat where the neck pickup and bridge pickup are farther away from each other. The other side of the coin is if the two pickups are of the same type and output they tend to sound less distinct. The neck pickup is less round and deep and not as prone to sounding muddy at full volume with overdrive or fuzz on an SG than a Les Paul all other things being equal.
This is why I keep my neck pickups low, with the screws generally in an inverse curve of the string radius, and the neck pickup volume on like 5 or 6, with the bridge pickup volume on 8. That way I can goose the volume on both when I want some breakup, and the neck pickup is a little clearer and lower in volume until I turn it up.
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