Did Another 12AX7 Taste Test Today Also

[STRATDELUXER97]

After finishing up with my 66 Pro Reverb today,I then decided to try out many different 12AX7s in the Vibrato Channel....

I tryed the following tubes and ended up liking 4 of the tubes....Every tube I tryed,I can't say that I dis-liked greatly,simply because this amp sounds great to begin with and years ago I stuck some nice Webers in it also....This is a very played,user amp!

Anyway...

Tubes I didn't care for....

EH 12AX7...Had quite a bit of gain,but was a bit dark sounding,lacked note clarity...

New Tung Sols...Nice gain,strong output,again a bit dark,bass was pretty prominent,thought this tube was a bit flat sounding in this amp..

Sovtek WA/WB.....I'm just not really a fan of most of the Sovtek stuff,though I do like the LPS tube as a PI tube...These are pretty lifeless/flat sounding tubes to me..

GT 12AX7M....Love these in position 1 of my old Marshall,but they didn't sound right in my Fender amp combo...

Seems that alot of these modern 12AX7s lack the tight,clear lows and some of these just made the lows downright muddy and un-focused....

Now the tubes I really liked....

Hands down and not surprisingly,I loved the RCA Early 12AX7 and it's the one that resides in the vibrato channel....Nice even string definition,nice tight lows,chimey,but not spikey highs...Just an excellent overall sounding tube in this amp and tonally balanced(It just makes the amp sound right to my ears)..I have a nice collection of these tubes...Nice complex and almost a 3 dimensional tone that is hard to explain...This nice sense of added space in the sound coming out of my amp with this tube..I kept swapping but coming back to this tube every time.

Great Britain 12AX7(Probably a Mullard but not marked?).....Again lots of complex 3 dimensional tone,harmonics really jump out of the amp with this tube and the RCA above....This tube was a bit brighter,and the lows weren't as strong...Nice strong sounding tube,tight,articulate tone...Almost a tie for first...

Early Golden Dragon 12AX7....Great tube,lots of gain,strong sounding...Very close in tone to the Britain tone above,but slightly more gain heard in the preamp...Lacks that special complexity that I hear in the RCA and British tube,but still an excellent tube!

EI Premium Select Gold Pin Yugo tube...This one surprised me....Not as gainey to my ears as the Chinese Golden Dragon,not as bright,but good lowend,tube keeps the tone tight also...Was pretty happy with this tube in my Fender amp also..

As much as I hate to say this,but most of us that have played through tube amps for alot of years know.....The tubes from years gone by,just have that special something....Some of the early tubes I mean...

I'd say the Mullard and RCA sound like the difference I hear between a set of Seths and the Antiquities...The Antiquities have that added sense of dimension and space that you hear,but it's hard to explain...

Anyway....I had a blast today and my amp sounds great...

Ironically enough,I basically have the exact tubes that the amp shipped with back in 66 with the RCAs in place....I have an Amperex Bugle Boy in the Normal channel's slot though..

 

[eggman]

Re: Did Another 12AX7 Taste Test Today Also

Howdy,

Thanks for posting. I'm a "tube nut", too.

Eggman

 

[d1dsj]

Re: Did Another 12AX7 Taste Test Today Also

Thanks for the insight, valves are something I have no knowledge of. So if I wanted to get a few nice valves like the RCA's, where would I go without being ripped off? It seems that everytime I've seen any old valves, people are asking silly money? What would be a "fair" price for them? Again, many thanks for the review.

 

[wahwah]

Re: Did Another 12AX7 Taste Test Today Also

Thanks for the insight, valves are something I have no knowledge of. So if I wanted to get a few nice valves like the RCA's, where would I go without being ripped off? It seems that everytime I've seen any old valves, people are asking silly money? What would be a "fair" price for them? Again, many thanks for the review.

An excellent overview by STRATDELUXER97, and I concur with his findings. It's always going to be hard or impossible to beat a late 50's RCA blackplate in a Fender amp built before 1985.

I think the best resource for vintage tubes at reasonable prices is still eBay, but it is very important to do enough research to know exactly what you are looking for, and looking at. Most serious eBay tube dealers will give accurate readings of the life of their tubes, and they take their feedback very seriously, so they are unlikely to misrepresent their items. Many will offer some form of refund policy, and any statements of items being sold 'as is' without recourse should probably be avoided unless you are prepared to take the risk. The tip I always pass on is to seek out 'good used' tubes as opposed to NOS. The premium payed for New Old Stock is simply not worth the money, and it is from these inflated prices that most of the confusion about vintage tubes arises. A vintage tube with 90% of its life left will equate to many years of great tone, and the prices can be not much more than you would expect to pay for a current production tube.

Having said that, I have noticed that the quantities of good vintage tubes being released onto eBay seems to have dwindled, and it may be the case that people are starting to hang on to these tubes as they become more scarce. In my own case, I put away my stash dating back to 2003, with a view to keeping my own amps in great tonal shape for the rest of my life. I have put away a few exotic or highly sought after tubes as investments, but the vast majority are to be used to make for quality guitar tone for my professional purposes, now and in the future.




Cheers..................................... wahwah

 

[d1dsj]

Re: Did Another 12AX7 Taste Test Today Also

Nice one Geoff!

 

[eggman]

Re: Did Another 12AX7 Taste Test Today Also

Howdy,

For NOS tubes, I use KCA tubes. Misha Kropotkin is an honest guy. I've had one "bad" NOS tube from him in about oh..15 tubes. Not bad.
NOS power tubes have just about priced themselves out of the market, but preamp tubes are still possible with my budget. NOS Preamp tubes can last for decades.

Eggman

 

[eschoendorff]

Re: Did Another 12AX7 Taste Test Today Also

So are teh tubes you liked current production items, or are the NOS?


What do you like for current production tubes?

 

[misterwhizzy]

Re: Did Another 12AX7 Taste Test Today Also

I recently went through a little bit of testing with this exact question, so even though the post wasn't asking me, I'll give my impressions.

1. Sovtek WA - Lifeless and bland. Really a cheap tube that amplifies a signal but has nothing more to offer. I think it's a Russian military design, and that personality seems to fit it perfectly.
2. JJ ECC83s - Middy. I missed the presence and room-filling qualities that I have found with other tubes. I didn't find it dark, necessarily, but it certainly didn't have much chime or presence either. To my ears, it was all mids.
3. Tung-Sol 12AX7 - Pretty decent tube. I've heard it described as three-dimensional, and that's not a bad description, if by three dimensions you mean bass, middle, and treble. It was pretty full and had a bit of life, but not life-altering by any means.
4. Mullard 12AX7 RI - Best of the bunch, hands down. Very harmonically complex, plenty of gain, and rather smooth sounding overall. Whereas the Tung-Sol had a bit of harshness throughout, just a little bit of an edge that didn't sit right with my ears, the Mullard takes care of all those problems while adding a bit more liveliness and character.

I had gone back and forth between the Tung-Sol and the JJ before I decided to pick up a Mullard and a Sovtek LPS, but once I put the Mullard in there, I realized nothing could touch it. I may put the Sovtek in just to make sure my ears are right, but as far as I'm concerned, the Mullard is the current new production tube to use.

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Did Another 12AX7 Taste Test Today Also

I recently went through a little bit of testing with this exact question, so even though the post wasn't asking me, I'll give my impressions.

1. Sovtek WA - Lifeless and bland. Really a cheap tube that amplifies a signal but has nothing more to offer. I think it's a Russian military design, and that personality seems to fit it perfectly.
2. JJ ECC83s - Middy. I missed the presence and room-filling qualities that I have found with other tubes. I didn't find it dark, necessarily, but it certainly didn't have much chime or presence either. To my ears, it was all mids.
3. Tung-Sol 12AX7 - Pretty decent tube. I've heard it described as three-dimensional, and that's not a bad description, if by three dimensions you mean bass, middle, and treble. It was pretty full and had a bit of life, but not life-altering by any means.
4. Mullard 12AX7 RI - Best of the bunch, hands down. Very harmonically complex, plenty of gain, and rather smooth sounding overall. Whereas the Tung-Sol had a bit of harshness throughout, just a little bit of an edge that didn't sit right with my ears, the Mullard takes care of all those problems while adding a bit more liveliness and character.

I had gone back and forth between the Tung-Sol and the JJ before I decided to pick up a Mullard and a Sovtek LPS, but once I put the Mullard in there, I realized nothing could touch it. I may put the Sovtek in just to make sure my ears are right, but as far as I'm concerned, the Mullard is the current new production tube to use.

3 dimensional is hard to explain in words,but I hear better overall harmonic complexity with the better preamp tubes....There's a certain special rightness I hear with the RCA and the Britain 12AX7 that makes me smile....Most of the newer tubes sound ok,but they are flat sounding and don't have that "special" thing I hear with the older tubes....The amp seems to have a livelier tone with the better tubes..As far as bass,mids,and treble,I Look for a nice balance of the 3....Not too harsh in the highs and not boomy or loose,muddy lows....It's both a hear and feel thing when playing..

I haven't heard the Mullard reissue,unless it's the same tube as the early GT 12AX7M? Love this tube in my Marshall(When you can find good ones)

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Did Another 12AX7 Taste Test Today Also

An excellent overview by STRATDELUXER97, and I concur with his findings. It's always going to be hard or impossible to beat a late 50's RCA blackplate in a Fender amp built before 1985.

I think the best resource for vintage tubes at reasonable prices is still eBay, but it is very important to do enough research to know exactly what you are looking for, and looking at. Most serious eBay tube dealers will give accurate readings of the life of their tubes, and they take their feedback very seriously, so they are unlikely to misrepresent their items. Many will offer some form of refund policy, and any statements of items being sold 'as is' without recourse should probably be avoided unless you are prepared to take the risk. The tip I always pass on is to seek out 'good used' tubes as opposed to NOS. The premium payed for New Old Stock is simply not worth the money, and it is from these inflated prices that most of the confusion about vintage tubes arises. A vintage tube with 90% of its life left will equate to many years of great tone, and the prices can be not much more than you would expect to pay for a current production tube.

Having said that, I have noticed that the quantities of good vintage tubes being released onto eBay seems to have dwindled, and it may be the case that people are starting to hang on to these tubes as they become more scarce. In my own case, I put away my stash dating back to 2003, with a view to keeping my own amps in great tonal shape for the rest of my life. I have put away a few exotic or highly sought after tubes as investments, but the vast majority are to be used to make for quality guitar tone for my professional purposes, now and in the future.




Cheers..................................... wahwah

Thanks for posting wahwah! I made sure to post my findings right away,so I could give a fair tonal representation of the different tubes....In a different amp circuit,my findings might be completely different? My Fender amp is my absolute favorite...It has a full clean tone and takes to my Vox ToneLab LE and pedals very well...Makes for a nice versatlie 40 watt combo setup...I've gigged and have put "alot" of playing hours into this 66 Pro Reverb...I baby it and take care of it electronically..

 

[ken361]

Re: Did Another 12AX7 Taste Test Today Also

I have Mullards and Slyvania in my Marshall and a Mullard RI groove tube , dont care for much of the newer production tubes there not as smooth for one thing. You need to have the right gain in each socket for best results. If you dont have a tester you have to play around and see what works. You can find used ones for pretty cheap out there.

 

[ES350]

Re: Did Another 12AX7 Taste Test Today Also

Good to hear a positive review of the EI; I'm having a hrd time finding any new production that sounds right to me. Most of my gig/recording amps are loaded with old stuff (NOS/ANOS) and that's what I'm used to hearing...thanks for the tip.

 

[ken361]

Re: Did Another 12AX7 Taste Test Today Also

you can find some people that have the EI tubes for sale, just hope there not microphonic thats there only problem.

 

[AniML]

Re: Did Another 12AX7 Taste Test Today Also

The past couple of days I bought enough tubes on eBay to keep me busy tasting for a while.

I got like 9 or 10 12ax7, etc (Sylvania, Raytheon / Baldwin, RCA) and 3 pairs of EL84s: black plate sylvanias, Baldwins (mfg?) and Siemens - all 1959 - early 60s era, gently used, a couple of the preamp are NOS. Average price per tube was about that of a typical new production JJ or EH

+1 for research and patient shopping

 

[ken361]

Re: Did Another 12AX7 Taste Test Today Also

The past couple of days I bought enough tubes on eBay to keep me busy tasting for a while.

I got like 9 or 10 12ax7, etc (Sylvania, Raytheon / Baldwin, RCA) and 3 pairs of EL84s: black plate sylvanias, Baldwins (mfg?) and Siemens - all 1959 - early 60s era, gently used, a couple of the preamp are NOS. Average price per tube was about that of a typical new production JJ or EH

+1 for research and patient shopping

I have the baldwin sylvania in the v1, pretty cheap on ebay!

 

[SMark]

Re: Did Another 12AX7 Taste Test Today Also

I did a similar preamp tube taste test a number of years ago when I was looking for the best sounding tubes for my hi-gain amp. I had some smooth plate Telefunkens that just sounded so good compared to all the others. I have two of these amps now and I have Telefunkens in both. But I also found that the RCA Blackplates I had were my easy second favorite. So I also use them in my other amps. For the most 3D clean tones, the Mullard box plate CV4004 was hard to beat. It easily has the most bottom end of any I tried. Too overbearing for my hi-gain amps though.

The Sovteks I had were not even in the same league. The vintage Tung Sols were pretty good and so were the Brimars. The handful of Chinese tubes I had then were all over the map. The best of the Chinese tubes were the silver plate Ruby's. The Ei tubes I had actually sounded really good, but almost all of them were microphonic and pretty much unuseable in my hi-gain amp.

That's about all I remember, though I had a lot of tubes to try...

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Did Another 12AX7 Taste Test Today Also

I did a similar preamp tube taste test a number of years ago when I was looking for the best sounding tubes for my hi-gain amp. I had some smooth plate Telefunkens that just sounded so good compared to all the others. I have two of these amps now and I have Telefunkens in both. But I also found that the RCA Blackplates I had were my easy second favorite. So I also use them in my other amps. For the most 3D clean tones, the Mullard box plate CV4004 was hard to beat. It easily has the most bottom end of any I tried. Too overbearing for my hi-gain amps though.

The Sovteks I had were not even in the same league. The vintage Tung Sols were pretty good and so were the Brimars. The handful of Chinese tubes I had then were all over the map. The best of the Chinese tubes were the silver plate Ruby's. The Ei tubes I had actually sounded really good, but almost all of them were microphonic and pretty much unuseable in my hi-gain amp.

That's about all I remember, though I had a lot of tubes to try...

Hi SMARK....I remember you from the Fender Forums! ;o) I was StratPaulGuy...Anyway....These EI tubes sound really good and maybe they work great in a lower gain amp like my BF Pro Reverb,but I do see it as a problem in a high gain Boogie or Soldano type preamp...I'm familiar with the CV 4004 tube and they are pretty pricey these days.....I have a pretty good stock of NOS RCA(not sure if they are long plate or short or maybe both?) The RCAs always seem to sound really good to my ears...Smooth,full,and there's this really nice harmonic chime that I hear...This extra complexity is something that most of the modern 12AX7s don't possess,though the Chinese Golden Dragons and the Premium EI tubes come convincingly close...I bought these Golden Dragons from Hoffman in the early 90s and I guess they were the early good ones? Thanks for posting....I used to love listening to your pickup demos and you are a great player! :beerchug:

 

[Stratman]

Re: Did Another 12AX7 Taste Test Today Also

Love those RCA's Best tubes every made for Fender amps.

 

[ken361]

Re: Did Another 12AX7 Taste Test Today Also

I just got sunday a RCA Mullard higher gain for my my v2 and a v3 Matsu****a, it a Mullard type tube built in Japan. Sounds pretty sweet!

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Did Another 12AX7 Taste Test Today Also

Love those RCA's Best tubes every made for Fender amps.

Yep.....I'm thinking the RCAs I have in my 66 Pro Reverb,could very well be pretty close to what came in the amp,plus I have a nice set of BlackPlate RCA 6L6s in the amp....The Weber speakers I put into the amp back in 2000 really made the amp nicer....Than there's the better transformers etc....LOL