DiMarzio Haters - Why?

[MikeS]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

What's with all the bashing lately? First EMG threads, where we've got people who have limited experience making opinionated comments as though they were fact, and other people talking about a minute differences in numbers and scientific mumbo-jumbo that, quite honostly, the human ear is incapable of hearing. Now it looks like it DiMarzio's turn at the stake.

 

[ranalli]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

When the components used to make the pickup are of poor quality...

If they're of such poor quality then why don't they ever break down??


How many Dimarzios have broken down as compared to Duncans??


Get my point?? People can make assumptions about construction all they want....without statistics or actual failures to back it up nobody can make a real educated CONCLUSION.


Construction parts/techniques that someone simply doesn't like does not equate to a deficiency in quality without some kind of statistics to back it up.

 

[ranalli]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

What's with all the bashing lately? First EMG threads, where we've got people who have limited experience making opinionated comments as though they were fact, and other people talking about a minute differences in numbers and scientific mumbo-jumbo that, quite honostly, the human ear is incapable of hearing. Now it looks like it DiMarzio's turn at the stake.

Yup.....

Oh don't let me forget:

EMGs are sterile....

Dimarzios are of low quality....


I'm waiting for someone to say that they're processed sounding or noisy, etc next.....

 

[FretFire]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

2. The double cream issue annoys me. Why doesn’t Gibson go after DiMarzio regarding the double cream issue?? Since Gibson was the company that introduced the humbucker, wouldn’t they want to go after DiMarzio? Gibson would certainly seem to have the funds to win the case and shut down DiMarzio’s “patent” for good.

I've often wondered the same thing, and the only thing I can figure is that the replacement pickup market just isn't that important to Gibson.

 

[FretFire]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

If they're of such poor quality then why don't they ever break down??


How many Dimarzios have broken down as compared to Duncans??


Get my point?? People can make assumptions about construction all they want....without statistics or actual failures to back it up nobody can make a real educated CONCLUSION.


Construction parts/techniques that someone simply doesn't like does not equate to a deficiency in quality without some kind of statistics to back it up.

All I'm saying is that in my experience and that of others, DiMarzio pickups often have more flimsy materials inside than some other brands. It's not assumption. Looking at what it would take to actually damage a pickup when it's installed in a guitar, it really doesn't matter that much. I even said I like some DiMarzio pickups! I have used and would use them again, I never said that was a reason not to use them, just stating a fact. It becomes more important when you start working on your pickups, making hybrids, swapping magnets, etc. Sure, maybe only 5% of all guitar players do that kind of thing, but they'll still see the difference. Peace man.

 

[MikeS]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

I've often wondered the same thing, and the only thing I can figure is that the replacement pickup market just isn't that important to Gibson.

I think it's evident that it isn't at all. The only Gibson pickups you can buy are OEM replacements and are priced about $30 higher per pickup than most any other aftermarket pickup. That said, I wonder if Gibson still uses double cream bobbins underneath their covered pickups. Perhaps I need to take a cover off one of the Gibson pickups I've got laying around.

 

[MikeS]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

All I'm saying is that in my experience and that of others, DiMarzio pickups often have more flimsy materials inside than some other brands. It's not assumption. Looking at what it would take to actually damage a pickup when it's installed in a guitar, it really doesn't matter that much. I even said I like some DiMarzio pickups! I have used and would use them again, I never said that was a reason not to use them, just stating a fact. It becomes more important when you start working on your pickups, making hybrids, swapping magnets, etc. Sure, maybe only 5% of all guitar players do that kind of thing, but they'll still see the difference. Peace man.

Flimsy? Here's my take... the copper wiring used in coils is no stronger than that used in a Duncan. The metal baseplate is hidden in the guitar, and even if it were a lesser piece of steel, it's still steel, and chances are, if you are going abuse a pickup enough to damage the metal, then you've got bigger issues on your hands. That leaves plastic bobbins... maybe they use a softer plastic, maybe the section is thinner... but again, how exactly are you going to damage the plastic? I think that the argument gets moot real quick.

Nothing personal, FretFire, I just don't see how DMZO supposedly has "flimsy" construction.

 

[ranalli]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

It becomes more important when you start working on your pickups, making hybrids, swapping magnets, etc. Sure, maybe only 5% of all guitar players do that kind of thing, but they'll still see the difference. Peace man.

That's not what it's intended use is for, though.....


That's like converting a honda civic into a pickup truck them complaining that it's flimsy.....it was never meant for that....it does exactly what it was designed to do with no problem whatsoever.


I'm not trying to flame anyone but I just find it silly how these rumors start then the next thing you know people are all over the internet saying "Dimarzios are flimsy and unreliable".

 

[JacksonMIA]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

Let's not forget their trademark of the letters "PAF." This and their trademarks of colors are completely stupid. Legal, yes, but still stupid. Why should you have the right to a color or an acronym when you weren't the one that came up with it? It's an attempt to monopolise certain corners of the market, which is unethical at best. That's the "principle" that so many people are upset about.

 

[FretFire]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

Look guys, none of my comments were said as a means to deter people from DiMarzio pickups, not in the least. I was merely commenting on my findings (and those of a few others). IMO the bobbins and spacers just don't seem as sturdy as other makers'. I fully realize that in normal usage it's not an issue, but there ARE people that buy the pickups with the intent to pop them open and tweak. I never said the pickups are unreliable, I have never had a problem with any DiMarzio I've ever used.

 

[adrian]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

I use both Duncans and Dimarzios. Can´t say there a difference in quality in build, neither in sound quality. But, as I see it, there is one general difference between the two brands. Duncan generally go for a vintage sound, and Dimarzio generally go for a modern sound. Read Duncans and Dimarzios description of their products:
Duncan: Antiquities, Seth Lovers, 59´, Pearly Gates, Classic Stack and so on. Vintage all over the line.
Dimarzio: Evolution, Breed, Fred, Tone Zone, Air Norton, and so on. New sounding pickups, some strange sounding, but not "vintage".
From my point of view: my first idea to change a stock pickup is to find a different sound, not a vintage, i.e. what I already have. So I´ve found that Dimarzio often are more interesting for me, with their more "modern" sounding pickups. But as said: i also use Duncans for some guitars.

 

[FretFire]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

Duncan generally go for a vintage sound, and Dimarzio generally go for a modern sound.

I agree completely. They each have a few options that are aimed otherwise, but for the most part this holds true IMO.

 

[RiffGuy]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

Several years ago I tried out a Tone Zone in my RG. It was ok, but I remember thinking it sounded kind of cheap.

 

[shredaholic]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

trademarking the word 'PAF' and the colour of the pickups which they weren't even the first to do, is shady and opportunist. I studied business and one of the things you learn about corporate practices is that although a business can act totally law abiding, by doing things which people see as dishonest (eg pollution, exploiting 3rd world workers), can make a business unpopular and ruin its image. if dimarzio carry on trademarking things they didn't come up with or things people take for granted in products, they could ruin their image for good

just my opinion

 

[Mr 9finger]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

Ok, I feel obliged to chime in here

I have taken apart 5 DMZs for hybrids. I know that off the shelf pickups are not designed for this type of thing and maybe 5% of the whole guitar player population do these kinds of things. These are the contstruction FACTS that I've came across when taking DMZs are apart

1. There is VERY LITTLE wax potting in them. You all should know what kind of problems that can cause, especially in higher output pickups.

2. 3 out of the 5 had the magnets glued down with some kind of white silicone or epoxy. If you have to flip the magnet, then this construction method makes that almost impossible for someone that's not used to working with the insid of a pickup. >>> 95% of most guitar player.

3. 3 out of the 5 pickups that were used for these hybrids were bought new. On 2 of these pickups, at least one or more of the base plate screws were either almost completely stripped out and hanging by a thread, or they were just loose in general.

Loose parts on a pickup will make for excess/unwanted noise. Especially when you have 2 metal parts vibrating against each other.


These are not rumors, these are things I've seen and experienced with my own hands and Eyes. I'm not bashing Dimarzios and they have a couple pickups that I actually like. On the other hand, if I'm going to pay $65-$70 for a pickup off the shelf. I don't think that I should have to wax pot it, or go through and fix loose screws on the bass plate(DMZ uses Brass on most of their p/ups BTW). Especially since there are so many other pickup makers that already do these things.

 

[Mr 9finger]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

oh and so it's known. SDs aren't really my first choice in pickups either. I use Bill Lawrence Pickups mainly, but there are some Duncans in the collection.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

I can't intelligently comment on MY experience with build, I do remember that VH said the bobbins melt on the ones he had potted in the early 80's, but they've had 20+ years to work that out.

Why I don't buy Dimarzios.

Tradmark of the letters PAF

Trademark of the Double Creme Bobbin

Trademark of Mirror finish

Notice these are all trademarks, trademarks do NOT expire, patents do.

The trademarking of the letters PAF, and the double creme bobbins is intellectual property theft. Gibson did it first.

What that is essentially saying is we are TOO DUMB to know a Duncan from a Dimarzio without the double creme bobbins, or now the mirror finish bobbins.

Mirror finish is not new BTW, Rio Grande was offering that a few years back, I translate this to MORE intellectual property theft.

On a side not I was listening to Satch's Live in San Francisco, it made me think, hmmm PAF pro, PAF Joe? Then I remembered the trademark nonsense.

Luke

 

[FretFire]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

On a side not I was listening to Satch's Live in San Francisco, it made me think, hmmm PAF pro, PAF Joe? Then I remembered the trademark nonsense.

That'd be the PAF Pro, the Joe wasn't released until sometime just this last year.

 

[sosomething]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

Thanks guys - this has been a really interesting thread and I think I've learned the answer to my question.

I was unaware that DMZ had trademarked PAF and the mirror finish. The double-cream and mirror bit doesn't honestly bother me that much - it's not like it hurt Gibson or forced them to change too much. All the double-cream pickups Gibson made were under metal covers anyway, right?

Trademarking the "Patent Applied For" acronym seems pretty crappy, though. That SHOULD belong to Gibson (or to Seth Lover).

Hmm. Interesting info about the construction aspect. I never really felt there was any difference really in passive pickup construction between brands. There's about $2.50 max worth of materials in any pickup, whether they be Mighty Mite or Rio Grande. I always thought the difference in quality was in the amount of R&D each company put into fine-tuning those designs.

There are a few DMZ pups that I like a lot.. the Tone Zone and the HB from Hell are both very cool-sounding pickups to my ears, but I'm pretty happy with the Duncan Custom and Classic Stack in my main axe right now.

 

[RiffGuy]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

Anyone try a Drop Sonic? That thing sounds pretty cool from the sound clips on their website.