Do not like my guitar tone

[RandyRhoads]

Hey guys this is my first time posting on the Official SD forum so here's my situation:

Hey guys I am very unhappy with my guitar tone. I would love for your guys help since I really have nowhere else to turn. So heres a quick rundown of my gear right now: Jackson USA Soloist (Jb,59) and a Fender MiM Strat (Jb, Sentient). Marshall Dsl40c (all stock) a delay pedal for leads, Reverb pedal for rhythm, noise suppressor for unwanted hiss, and a Boss SD-1 for tightening up the low end of my amp since it is kind of flubby. The tone I want is one that is very tight for metal (I do not play any Black/Death metal or anything below C# tuning) and has nice liquid and fluid leads.I would also like to have good cleans as well (but this is not my priority as long as it play cleans and it is not muddy) I find my tone in contrast to that as of now. My rhythm is not as thick and tight as it could be. My leads sound sharp and spikey and untasteful. I have experimented with the positions of my pedals and the pedals themselves along with the EQ on the amp and honestly I cannot find my 'sound'. I have played a Blackstar Ht Club 40 whenever I go into Sam Ash and with just the guitar (one that I am trying out at Sam Ash, not one of my own) plugged in it sounds beautiful and lovely, and that is just at low volumes, I could only imagine it cranked. I am only 15 and do not have a lot of money to be on a 'tone quest'. The types of bands I look up to are Slayer, Megadeth, Venom, Iron Maiden, Ozzy Osbourne (Randy Rhoads era only) and Pantera. Could these things be attributable to the reason I hate my tone??

-Pickup Selection (Maybe the Jb is not for me [​IMG])

-Amp (Would the Blackstar be a better choice? If this would be the cause I would like something that is versatile at the least)

-Too thin of a string gauge

-Pickup height

-Can't find the sweetspot on my amp

-Placebo? (Maybe to others I might have an epic guitar tone? Am I overthinking the whole thing?)

-Or is it my technique? (I have significantly improved my technique over the past 8 months so I doubt that this is it, but I am open minded to new ideas!)

Well there you go, that is my problem in conclusion. Is there any advice/tips you guys would like to pass onto me? Is there anything I shoud try to do with my current setup before spending money on new gear or making drastic changes? Did any of guys have the same problem as me and if you did. did you have any solutions for it? Thanks guys for taking your time out of your day to try to help me out, I deeply appreciate it.


Also if you guys would like me to post some videos of me playing on my setup and I can do that, just to let you know though it will be taken on an Iphone so it won't sound like what I am hearing on the other end. Anways thanks again I sincerely appreciate it taking valuable time out of your day in an effort to help Thanks!

-Justin

 

[Kamanda~SD]

Re: Do not like my guitar tone

Hard to say without having an idea of what it's like now (a clip) to be honest. You have great gear, although your right, maybe one of those pieces arn't right for you. And of course don't overlook your technique (I know your working on improving it, but still).

A clip, even from iphone may help here. And a note on Marshall tube amps...generally, they are very unforgiving. Something like a Blackstar may be more down your alley, giving you more saturation and compression. Also, how are you setting the amp?

Let's start there and see where we can get ya!

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: Do not like my guitar tone

Offhand I think replacing the JB is a good place to start; also less expensive than other options. You may be on to something as far as messing with heights, but to me the JB sounds just like you describe it, a bit looser for rhythm and in-your-face leads.

 

[RandyRhoads]

Re: Do not like my guitar tone

I have posted this topic on the marshall forum and the UG forum and have gotten a lot of responses, except for technique. What exactly should I be brushing up on exactly? I also plan on taking pictures of my WHOLE setup including how my amp is and my pedals to give some more information through those photos. I also plan on taking a couple videos of my tone to give you guys an example of what I am talking about. I plan on putting an EQ in the Loop and getting a creamback speaker. Here is how I am running it

Full power, not half

Guitar --> TC Electronic Tuner ---> SD-1 --> Boss NS-2 ----> Amp

Effects Loop: boss DD7 --> TC Electronic Arena Reverb (The Boss NS2 is set in a way where it also takes the unwanted noise from these pedals)

Let me know if you need any more info!

 

[RandyRhoads]

Re: Do not like my guitar tone

I totally agree. The thing is I don't know what I want to do! People tell me to get a closed back cab so it has more oomph to it and others tell me that the JB should be getting me the sound! I think that if I throw a new Creamback in the amp and then after a little bit a MXR 10 band eq, and it still doesn't sound good I will end up putting new power tubes in there and after that if it doesn't work, I will be trading the amp in for a blackstar head and a marshall cab because I heard that that might be one of the best options if I can't make the amp work for me. I will be getting some new guitars soon that don't have JB's in them. Seymour Duncan Blackouts and another will have an EMG 57/66 set so if I still don't like the tone, then it is the amp at that point.

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: Do not like my guitar tone

The JB is very particular about where it sits under the strings
Anywhere outside that sweet spot, and it sounds like but

 

[Despair]

Re: Do not like my guitar tone

As far as technique, major contributor to sharper tones is picking too close to bridge. Try moving where your pick up near the neck, or even up onto the neck, particularly for leads that you want smoother. If you are already doing that, it's probably down to gear.

If the guitar you are playing at Sam Ash is a Jackson or strat with a JB in the bridge, you may just prefer the Blackstar. But in the interest of trying to make what you have work:

It might be the room you are playing in. If the amp is pointed at an opposing wall, it may just be beaming the high end right back at you. I had metal cabinets opposite my speaker cab, and had to either hang a blanket on them, or use my guitar stand to hang a flannel shirt between my ear and the cabinet, or I couldn't stand how harsh it sounded when I was on that side of the room. Try moving around, does it sound better when you are standing/sitting someplace else?

[Next 2 paragraphs probably redundant, ignore if you've already tried all of them]

I haven't played a DSL in something like 20 years, don't remember if the tone controls behave like older Marshalls, but starting place for a lot of classic rock and metal tones is bass 4 or below, mids maxed, treble 6-7, presence 6-7. Then tweak to taste, with gain as low as you can stand [thickness from multi-tracking/delay more than bass through amp, to avoid flub]. Generally spikyness comes from treble/presence, but with the JB, you could just not like the push it has in the upper midrange. Could try a graphic or parametric EQ to see if you can cut what you don't like without mangling everything else.

Try rolling back the tone control a bit on the SD-1. Or try high and roll off the presence/tone on your amp. Problem may be solvable with careful settings tweaks. Some noise suppressors come with a tone shift, might play with removing things from your signal chain and see if that fixes it. Then look for a different solution for the thing that doesn't work, if you can't correct for it.

JB should be dead on for Megadeth & Iron Maiden, and fine for the others. But not everyone likes them, they tend to be a fairly polarizing pickup, particularly if you aren't playing with a band, you may not need the pickup's ability to cut through the mix.

How's the neck pickup sound for leads? If you like that sound, that'd suggest a pickup swap might be in order. Is one guitar better than the other for leads with the bridge pickup?

 

[B2D]

Re: Do not like my guitar tone

Hi there!

Honestly, I don't think there's any reason you can't get a good useable sound in your ballpark with the gear you already have.

I'd guess that the source of your woes probably lie in a combination of technique, instrument setup, and settings. Making subtle improvements on all of these can add up to a big change.

My rhythm is not as thick and tight as it could be. My leads sound sharp and spikey and untasteful.

It's good that you've identified the problem here. Sounds you're lacking the low end integrity that you'd like.

My suggestion would be to begin my looking at the instrument. If you're using 9's, move up to 10's. Maybe try switching brands - for example, I personally find Ernie Ball to be bright and brittle sounding, I prefer Dunlop or D'addario strings. Make sure your pickup heights are set up right, as well. These are big factors.

Technique wise - don't pick too close to the bridge. That will sometimes produce the 'spiky' overtones you're referring to.

As far as the rig - start by plugging the guitar JUST into the amp with no pedals. Start with all the controls at noon and then move them around individually to see how they affect the tone and wether you like it or not. USE YOUR EARS. Don't "dial in a tone wiht your eyes", as they say. Try to go for slightly less gain and slightly more volume than you think you'd use. After you've got the amp dialed, take note of your settings and then start adding in pedals. Set the overdrive pedal to make your tone louder and fuller.

Let us know how things go.

Just out of curiosity, where are you from?

 

[Ben1962]

Re: Do not like my guitar tone

Welcome to the forum!! I never read anybody ask, what picks you using? Very cheap way to alter your sounds and cheap as well. For me, going to a nice 2x12 closed back cab has made a HUGE difference. I get that nice punchy sound vs. loose and flubby bass. I know money can be tight, and thats not a cheap fix. But I think your speakers and the cab are by far the biggest change you can make to your sound. Do you work your tone knob at all? Love hearing younger players talkin tone!!

 

[BleedingFingertips]

Re: Do not like my guitar tone

My rhythm is not as thick and tight as it could be.

-Justin

1. New pickups might be a solution. Thick and tight is what I would expect from Alternative 8. Perhaps you should give it a try. People also say it has "fluid leads". But I haven't tried it yet.

2. If there's such a difference between two amps then you should perhaps save money for another amp.

3. But since you're tight on budget start with cheap mods. Definitely change your strings. Take something that says "slinky top heavy bottom". Like 10-52s for E standard. I use D'Addario 11-56 for D standard.

 

[RandyRhoads]

Re: Do not like my guitar tone

I am from Cleveland Ohio! Thanks for your response! I have posted this same topic on a couple of different forums and have been getting a lot of information! I am currently adjusting my pickup heights to the manufacturers recommend height and I will start recording videos of myself to post on some of the other forums and this one aswell to give people a glimpse of what I am talking about. For my Jackson and Fender for palm muting I have to usually keep my hand near the bridge pu and overtime it has become a habit that my hand naturally lays there. Also it is not that my sound is not usable, it is just not what I want from my sound. For example I like the rhythm tones from Symphony of Destruction and Angel of Death. For a more rock n roll tone I love the tone on suicide solution and crazy train, as well with mr crowley (I like Mr. Rhoads sound for that particular area, some might say it is **** but whatever). I also like the lead tone from Symphony of Destruction, Tornado of Souls, Fear of the Dark (****ing love that tone UGH), The leads in Hollow by Pantera, I also like some of Yngwie's lead tones like from black star and far beyond the sun (I am aware that he is also using single coils), I also like some of david gilmours leads as well.

Yes I am all over the place in terms of that. To simplify it, for rock I like Randy Rhoad's tone for rhythm and lead. For metal, for rhythm I like Megadeth's sound (very tight) along with Slayer's and Pantera's rhythm tone. As for leads I like some of the leads from Megadeth depending on the song, Iron Maiden leads (just only from fear of the dark, I like others but this is just my top one), and occasionaly like Dime's lead tone and love Yngwie's tone.

Is there any possible way I can dial this tone in somehow?

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Do not like my guitar tone

Their amps and pedals are most of the sound I'd say.

 

[RandyRhoads]

Re: Do not like my guitar tone

I use Dunlop Tortex III Picks that are 1.35 mm.

I love getting on forums now man! I don't have a lot of friends that are passionate as I am about guitar, literally ask any of my friends all I do is look at guitars all day and talk about it.

People reccomend this Marshall 2x12 cab for $350 and i think that that is a good price, but then I see that it has 2 seventy 80s and I would know I would have to replace those :/ If I do a couple things to try to improve my sound, I might just deal with it for awhile until I can afford a Nice 2x12 cab with a nice blackstar head https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HTCLUB50HMKII and If i cant do that then I will get this https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HTSTAGE601MKII. I know it is not a closeback, but I am sure I can compensate for it with a creamback in it and an eq pedal in the loop. Any more advice? I am still a bit new to disecting everything about tone and I am eager to learn, so don't feel hesitant to write down a novel on this, I will read it as long as it is good quality info that will help me improve my tone! Thanks again a man!

 

[Plessure]

Re: Do not like my guitar tone

I wouldn't worry so much about sounding like particular finished records when just playing the instrument

 

[Ben1962]

Re: Do not like my guitar tone

I would never tell you what to get, but I had the 40 watt from Blackstar and didnt care for it. It was an awesome pedal platform, had AWESOME clean channel, but I just couldnt bond with the distortion channel at all.I did get my pedals to sound great thru it, but thats not what I bought it for. If I may, you say you hate your tone, is that playing alone in your bedroom? Because you may actually sound good with a drummer and other guys. Most of the guys on here say a bedroom tone often gets "lost in the mix" when playing in a band situation. Some guys , even the great ones chase tone their entire lives. So dont let it get you down, just enjoy the ride!!

 

[RandyRhoads]

Re: Do not like my guitar tone

Hey Ben thanks for the response! I am starting to hear about a lot of the negatives the blackstar offers and starting to think that might not be a good option if i decide to get rid of the marshall. I primarily play in a bedroom and have never with my own gear played with a drummer. I will be posting some pictures of room I heard that that might affect the tone?

 

[AlexR]

Re: Do not like my guitar tone

The Boss SD1 as stock (and standalone) has a lot of the issues tonally you describe. Maybe try turning it off, or borrowing a real TS type pedal (yes, they are different) to see what that does.

 

[LLL]

Re: Do not like my guitar tone

The DSL40C is a Master Volume type circuit.

You mentioned you primarily play in the "bedroom"... at what volume settings?

 

[FuseG4]

Re: Do not like my guitar tone

I had a DSL50 head and a 1x12 cab back before they made the DSL40C, and I found the tone much different and much better with the low end and mids dominating the sound more by using the green/classic channel in crunch mode, and then using an overdrive pedal, and keeping the treble, bass, and presence knobs low. But the main thing was to set the master volume quite high (at least 11:00 or 12:00, preferably 3:00!). It is useless without the power tubes and speaker cooking, smoothing out the buzzyness and treble.
I had an Eminence V128 in my cab it was close to Vintage 30 kind of speaker, and it had aggressive mids and tight bass and it worked good but mine was an open back mdf cab and it wasn't like super tight.
If you try this and find it boomy or bassy you can try it on the ultra channel lead 1 with the gain set low, less than 12:00. But again the master volume must be set high.

I sold the amp because I don't like the sound of the amp very much unless it's far too loud for home use though. Cranked up it sounds proper, to me anyways.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Do not like my guitar tone

One of the bigger name guitar makers, I think Joel Dantzig or Paul Reed Smith, said something about practice curing all tone issues.

Since you're 15 and have pro-quality gear, quit obsessing over the gear. As the others have said, plug straight into the amp and play more. Either of those guitars into a Marshall tube amp is more than capable of getting suitable rock and metal tones. Play it more and figure out how to pull better tone out of it. Two more guitars with EMGs and Blackouts isn't likely to make much difference if you can't get good rock tone out of a humbucker strat and a Marshall.

If you ultimately can't get anything happening, keep focusing on your right hand technique and then the amp.