Does anyone really like the silverface tone?

Quencho092

Quencho092

New member
Everyone i know that owns a silverface would rather have a tweed or a blackface. Silverfaces are way cheaper than blackfaces in most cases. I know they're 'drier' and have huge headroom while sacrificing tons of power tube distortion, and when it doesn distort it's nothing to write home about.

Can a silverface outdo any modern tube amps in the tone department? This is all subjective, but i want opinions here...
 
Re: Does anyone really like the silverface tone?

When I think silverface tone...I think Albert Collens. I think he used a
Super 6? When I 1st got my 77' Twin it sounded fine. But I modded it
to Blackface specs anyway. The amp got warmer and broke up sooner
and smoother. I wonder how many guys on the board that own SF amps
got them modded to BF specs. ????? C'mon fess up ! How many of you'll
use a stock SF? :laugh2:
 
Re: Does anyone really like the silverface tone?

Do you guys know where I can find info on modding a SF Vibrolux Reverb to BF specs?

I have a '70 SF Vibrolux Reverb that sounds pretty sweet. It needs new speakers though (the stock ones flub out on the bass when brought up to a decent level and the amp breaks up too soon - around 4 on the volume).

I'm pretty sure the Vibrolux Reverbs sounded pretty close to each other, but I've never played a bf one, so I'm not sure how much of a difference there is or whether it would actually be worth it.

I think oldschool Fenders can go right up there against a lot of higher end, boutique modern stuff. My VR is just a really warm, creamy and sweet amp. I haven't heard quite anything like it before. It sings for blues (which is what I have dedicated it to). I can't play heavy stuff, but for light and vintage stuff, it rules and it can get into other territories with pedals.
 
Re: Does anyone really like the silverface tone?

That kind of depends on what vintage of silverface you are talking about. My 68's sound killer and still have the BF circuit even though thy have silverface cosmetics. Late 70's on the other hand are significantly different.
 
Re: Does anyone really like the silverface tone?

Most of the Silverface Fenders can be modded to get back most of the tone of the blackface version.

1. The first thing that needs to be done to most silverface Fenders is to "blackface" the bias circuit and make it so you can adjust the bias current.

2. The next thing that needs to be done is to clip off the little suppression caps CBS added to the reverb inputs to suppresss squeeling due to sloppy wiring.

3. The next thing that needs to be done is to shorten all the wiring and take out the slack...especially in the pre-amp and especially the wires running to the grids or inputs of the pre-amp tubes.

4. The next thing that needs to be done is to replace all of the reddish brown caps with murky yellow writing and the .02 disc that couples the output of the vibrato channel with quality Sprague Orange Drop or Mallory 150 caps.

5. The next thing that needs to be done is to toss those Utah speakers in the trash, or put them on Ebay, and replace them with some great modern speakers: Celestions, Webers, Jensens, Eminence or ???

My '74 Super Reverb has better tone than any of the mid 60's blackface Super Reverbs I have owned...but it needed the mods listed above to do that.
 
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Re: Does anyone really like the silverface tone?

Jerry Garcia used a SF Twin Reverb for most of his career (starting in the late 60's). He ended up making his TRs into heads and then running them into power amps. He used a BF TR (also converted into a head) as a spare.

Jerry's thing was wanting to have a clean tone, so the SF worked for him and then using the TR essentially as a preamp allowed him to play even cleaner.
 
Re: Does anyone really like the silverface tone?

Quencho092 said:
Everyone i know that owns a silverface would rather have a tweed or a blackface. Silverfaces are way cheaper than blackfaces in most cases. I know they're 'drier' and have huge headroom while sacrificing tons of power tube distortion, and when it doesn distort it's nothing to write home about.

Can a silverface outdo any modern tube amps in the tone department? This is all subjective, but i want opinions here...
Click to expand...

I had a early 70's SF Deluxe Reverb that was killer clean, and sounded great. It wasn't a very complex tone, but it was nice and tight, and since I was really into effects at the time, served as the perfect blank slate for my tone. It's all in what you're planning to do with it.

.......that amp was built like a tank too. Nothing I did ever caused the amp to stagger. I wasn't exactly gentle on my gear.

Mike
 
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Re: Does anyone really like the silverface tone?

A SF with the changes Lew mentioned and maybe a few others can and do sound just as good if not better than a BF Fender amp....tweeds is a whole nother ball game. For the Record my Twin Reverb is a SF that has been Black Faced...I liked it before but I love it now, and with the right speakers ( a set of old brown EV's which are currently blown) it sounds amazing. Even though I do like the tweed stuff I think that I really want a blond amp of some sort soon...well soon being in the next 5 years!
 
Re: Does anyone really like the silverface tone?

Lewguitar said:
Most of the Silverface Fenders can be modded to get back most of the tone of the blackface version.

1. The first thing that needs to be done to most silverface Fenders is to "blackface" the bias circuit and make it so you can adjust the bias current.

2. The next thing that needs to be done is to clip off the little suppression caps CBS added to the reverb inputs to suppresss squeeling due to sloppy wiring.

3. The next thing that needs to be done is to shorten all the wiring and take out the slack...especially in the pre-amp and especially the wires running to the grids or inputs of the pre-amp tubes.

4. The next thing that needs to be done is to replace all of the reddish brown caps with murky yellow writing and the .02 disc that couples the output of the vibrato channel with quality Sprague Orange Drop or Mallory 150 caps.

5. The next thing that needs to be done is to toss those Utah speakers in the trash, or put them on Ebay, and replace them with some great modern speakers: Celestions, Webers, Jensens, Eminence or ???

My '74 Super Reverb has better tone than any of the mid 60's blackface Super Reverbs I have owned...but it needed the mods listed above to do that.
Click to expand...


Don't forget Lew...later SF amps had a really crappy master volume and real high plate voltges...to add to your list I also drop the plate voltage and remove completely or re-work the master volume.
 
Re: Does anyone really like the silverface tone?

Sweet info Lew! You're a God send :fing2:

I'm going to have to read up on how to adjust the bias setting for the tubes in my SF Vibrolux Reverb. It dates back to August of 1970, so I may luck out that CBS hasn't killed too much tone on the amp due to the fact it wasn't too far into the SF period.

Changing the caps should be a breeze, it's just finding the right parts. I'll have to check the wiring on the amp, but it didn't seem messy to me, so hopefully not a lot of work will need to be done.

After getting my laptop repaired, I'll definitely look into buying some Webers.

Say what you will about SF Fenders, but the Vibrolux Reverb has a sweet, light compressed overdrive that went head to head with a Two Rock Onyx I played not too long ago (no j/k).
 
Re: Does anyone really like the silverface tone?

I've got a '75 SilverFace DR and used to own a late 60's SF Twin - both sounded fantastic - never had any desire to mod them. I did eventually sell the Twin because it was just more power than I needed.

Years ago I used to play my SF DR in a band with a guy who had a BF DR and his did sound a little warmer, but I always attributed that to our speakers - mine has a Mesa, his had the stock Fender. But when my DR is cranked, it gets gobs of luscious distortion - not harsh at all. (FYI - mine does not have a master volume or pull boost - I have no experience with those models.)

And SF's are a real good bargain - mine only cost $250 when I bought it in '87.
 
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Re: Does anyone really like the silverface tone?

Larry Carlton reportedly used a dimed SF Princeton Reverb to do Steely Dan's Royal Scam album. The intro and fill parts for Don't Take Me Alive and the solo for Kid Charlemagne are Killer - but he is Larry Carlton.
 
Re: Does anyone really like the silverface tone?

Until I got my Z I used a 100 watt Silverface twin reverb with the master and pull boost. I usually used it like a BF and left the master at 10. I did however like the pull boost. At the time I was using a Boss Dual OD, Super OD, and a Big pigh Fat dist. (very close to the grunge circuit) and that amp made a perfect blank slate just like bluzboy said. The tightness of the low end spoiled me something fierce. I have a BF vibro-champ that sound very very nice but have didn't have it with me when I played through a SF Vibro-champ.

Luke
 
Re: Does anyone really like the silverface tone?

I'm very happy with the tone of my SF Champ, the only thing I intend to change is the speaker. I have an el cheapo Jensen MOD in there right now, at some point I want to replace it with a higher quality Jensen or Weber.
 
Re: Does anyone really like the silverface tone?

the_Chris said:
Sweet info Lew! You're a God send :fing2:

I'm going to have to read up on how to adjust the bias setting for the tubes in my SF Vibrolux Reverb. It dates back to August of 1970, so I may luck out that CBS hasn't killed too much tone on the amp due to the fact it wasn't too far into the SF period.

Changing the caps should be a breeze, it's just finding the right parts. I'll have to check the wiring on the amp, but it didn't seem messy to me, so hopefully not a lot of work will need to be done.

After getting my laptop repaired, I'll definitely look into buying some Webers.

Say what you will about SF Fenders, but the Vibrolux Reverb has a sweet, light compressed overdrive that went head to head with a Two Rock Onyx I played not too long ago (no j/k).
Click to expand...

Hi Chris, Your SF Vibrolux, if it's stock, probably does not allow you to adjust the bias current like the blackface model would. Instead Fender/CBS redesigned the bias circuit to allow you to use two UNMATCHED OUTPUT TUBES and then balance them with the bias pot. Having your Vibrolux "Blackfaced" would improve the tone ALOT! If you love it now, you'll really love it if you have those changes CBS made to the circuit changed back to the original '65 design. You should pick up Gerald Weber's two great tube guitar amp books...lots of instructions and knowledge there for improving amps like yours and making a silverface sound as good or better than a blackface.

Good luck!

Lew
 
Re: Does anyone really like the silverface tone?

the guy who invented fire said:
Don't forget Lew...later SF amps had a really crappy master volume and real high plate voltges...to add to your list I also drop the plate voltage and remove completely or re-work the master volume.
Click to expand...

Man, if the guy will let me, I usually remove that thing and throw it and all its greasy wiring in the trash! That design is a tone sucker, IMO. You can use the extra hole for a prescence control or variable negative feedback control.

Even on "10" the Fender master volume from the 70's robs tone and all amps sound better with it gone and removed from the circuit.

I've done some experimenting with changing the voltage dropping resistors in the power supply too. You're right...as usual! :)

An amp that really benifits from dropping the voltages to the preamp tubes by using larger resistors is the Sovtek Mig 50, BTW.

This is not work for a beginner... :saeek: ...lethal voltages there!
 
Re: Does anyone really like the silverface tone?

Quencho092 said:
why did fender scrab the blackface? CBS?
Click to expand...
This is the story I heard ? When Corparate CBS Execs. Got a hold of the
Company :yell: They hired Audio engineers to evalueate the circuits.
These's fella's found them to be obsolete and faulty (Cuz' they distorted!)
Now remember...This is from a Engineering stand point :duh: So this
was CBS's idea of improving the line,And of course....Make Em' cheaper
to manufacture :13: IMHO who ever thought up the silver faceplate it
self? Should get a smack! :butkick: :laugh2:
 
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