Does wood make a difference?

Re: Does wood make a difference?

Funkfingers said:
The phrase, "comprehensible results" implies partial pre-supposition as to what the test results OUGHT to be. Much of what can be measured during tests may eventually prove to be totally irrelevant. It is still good practice to gather that data.

Proving what, if anything, does not make any difference is as useful as proving what does.
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If you use the wrong or less ideal measuring device, you will get real data, but it will be partial data, or data that's irrelevant to the question for which we want an answer. For example, the default FFT size of 1024 showed what looked like a lot of garbage, but increasing it to 8192 made for a clearer result.

Or if something doesn't turn out as expected, is it because that's "just the way it is", or is there an imperfection in the test setup? For example, if I conduct the exact same test twice, I see virtually no variation in harmonic amplitude up to 3-4kHz, but above that I see every so slight variations from one test to the next. Is the sample size too small? Is the test rig changing in some slight way between each test? These are the issues I have to work out.
 
Re: Does wood make a difference?

JB_From_Hell said:
This is all far more efficient than playing a bunch of guitars and buying the one that sounds good.
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You (and everyone else who says "play yer guitar trust yer ears") seem a bit bitter about these threads. You have to appreciate that some people like technical things. They're almost two entirely different hobbies. I bring up the example of Leo Fender, a hero of a guitar world who was all about the technical side of things, not at all about the playing. There are people who like to work on cars, it would be like telling them to do less tuning and do more driving.
 
Re: Does wood make a difference?

DreX said:
You (and everyone else who says "play yer guitar trust yer ears") seem a bit bitter about these threads. You have to appreciate that some people like technical things. They're almost two entirely different hobbies. I bring up the example of Leo Fender, a hero of a guitar world who was all about the technical side of things, not at all about the playing. There are people who like to work on cars, it would be like telling them to do less tuning and do more driving.
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How are we bitter? An example of bitterness would be nice. Also, music is meant to be heard, that's why we say trust your ears. Buying gear by "technicalities" would not have gotten my the tone I love now.

When did Leo Fender say that he cared about the technical side of things and not about the playing? I have no proof but I highly doubt Leo Fender was making decisions based off of highly technical calculations on his guitars...

I've never known a mechanic who did tune ups just for the joy of a tune up...the people I met who tinkered on cars did so for the whole point of getting the car up and running. Do you know mechanics who do a tune up for the enjoyment of a tune up, who give a car a tune up not to run better but just to have a tune up?
 
Re: Does wood make a difference?

Nothing derails a thread quite like asking people why they care about the topic in the first place. Why do you care that we care? Why post in a thread that is supposedly of no interest to you? There are so many other uninteresting threads to choose from...
 
Re: Does wood make a difference?

The irony here:

1. The scientific mind has a valid point in questioning and searching for the answers to back up the claims
2. The pure musician has a valid point here to trust their ears

I know a bit about physics but for the most part I trust my ears when it comes to music and instruments/equipment. I have even gone to a physics professor with this question and was given this response: any material coming in contact with the materials holding the strings in place has a pretty good chance of influencing the vibrations of the strings in one way or another. However, without doing experiments there is no way to say how much impact this may or may not have on the sound being projected electronically.

So, here we are, another woods affecting tone thread beginning to turn nasty. In reality there is enough room for everybody and both sides in this debate.
 
Re: Does wood make a difference?

DreX said:
You (and everyone else who says "play yer guitar trust yer ears") seem a bit bitter about these threads. You have to appreciate that some people like technical things. They're almost two entirely different hobbies. I bring up the example of Leo Fender, a hero of a guitar world who was all about the technical side of things, not at all about the playing. There are people who like to work on cars, it would be like telling them to do less tuning and do more driving.
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I'm not bitter. I have an issue with people who think numbers are a better way of analyzing music than listening to it.

As I said before, I'm curious to see what your test determines. However, the results are not going to overrule what I hear.
 
Re: Does wood make a difference?

DreX said:
Nothing derails a thread quite like asking people why they care about the topic in the first place. Why do you care that we care? Why post in a thread that is supposedly of no interest to you? There are so many other uninteresting threads to choose from...
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And you care about derailing a thread? :lmao:

Honesly though, I am curious where Leo Fender said that he only cared about the technical and not at all about the playing side...according to a Leo Fender biography the Stratocaster was designed to answer complaints about the Telecaster–physically and tonally. So I think he cared about the playing side of his products.

Also, do you know mechanics who enjoy doing a tune up just for the joy of a tune up? I'm just curious, not saying they don't exist just never met someone like that...
 
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Re: Does wood make a difference?

Ears and minds can be deceived.

As an example, imagine that you are in a music store, planning to purchase a specific make/model of electric guitar. They have five of it. You try all five. You may hold a notion of how that sort of guitar OUGHT to sound through a particular sort of amplifier. If/when one of the test guitars falls slightly short of expectations on how much overdrive saturation it gets through the amplifier, do you shrug and say, "not hot enough" or do you put more energy into the strings to compensate until the guitar that you are currently playing does do what you expected of it?
 
Re: Does wood make a difference?

It is well documented that Leo Fender did not play guitar in any conventionally understood sense. His testbed method involved laying the guitar on a bench, amplifying it hugely and banging on the strings to see if he liked the tone. His preferred prototype pickups and guitars were then entrusted to others for testing and evaluation.

George Fullerton and Forrest White have both written on this topic.
 
Re: Does wood make a difference?

treyhaislip said:
And you care about derailing a thread? :lmao:
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I wish I could say I was derailing this thread, but I keep posting about tone wood :(

treyhaislip said:
Honesly though, I am curious where Leo Fender said that he only cared about the technical and not at all about the playing side...according to a Leo Fender biography the Stratocaster was designed to answer complaints about the Telecaster–physically and tonally. So I think he cared about the playing side of his products.
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I didn't say Leo Fender didn't care about the playability of his instruments, I'm saying that he never played.. at all. There is zero requirement that you play a guitar, ort even know how to play a guitar, in order to take pleasure in the technical aspects of the instrument. Why then do people always post about how we should stop taking interesting in technical details and play more? What is their motivation for harassing us about our interest in technical precision?

treyhaislip said:
Also, do you know mechanics who enjoy doing a tune up just for the joy of a tune up? I'm just curious, not saying they don't exist just never met someone like that...
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I know people who tune their vehicles unnecessarily, especially involving trucks that are not meant to / never will be raced. Then there's guys who don't own a Ferrari or a Bugatti, and almost certainly never will, but they read the car magazines and keep score over which exotic car maker is offering more horsepower or better zero to sixty times, and I'm sure how they feel to drive would matter, if there was any chance they would ever actually be driving them.
 
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Re: Does wood make a difference?

Funkfingers said:
Ears and minds can be deceived.

As an example, imagine that you are in a music store, planning to purchase a specific make/model of electric guitar. They have five of it. You try all five. You may hold a notion of how that sort of guitar OUGHT to sound through a particular sort of amplifier. If/when one of the test guitars falls slightly short of expectations on how much overdrive saturation it gets through the amplifier, do you shrug and say, "not hot enough" or do you put more energy into the strings to compensate until the guitar that you are currently playing does do what you expected of it?
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I take into account the string gauge, the setup, pickup height, etc... I've played long enough I can usually judge pretty well how much of what I'm hearing (or not hearing) is due to things I will be changing anyway.
 
Re: Does wood make a difference?

Yes but your judgements on these matters are only applicable to you.
 
Re: Does wood make a difference?

DreX said:
I know people who tune their vehicles unnecessarily, especially involving trucks that are not meant to / never will be raced.
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Obviously you do not know much about trucks. You can drop a racing suspension and drop the height of a lot of trucks on the market. They handle great and you can squeeze some serious power out of V8 engines slapped with the right manual transmission. Some of the early 2000's Dodge Dakotas, for example, you can really turn them into race machines. I've seen plenty of 318 and 360 Dodge V8's in seemingly sleeper Dakotas absolutely torch cars that should have no business losing to a "truck". On the other end of the spectrum you can tune a truck with a nice off road suspension, raise the height and give them serious power and torque for hill climbing, mudding, hauling and off-road racing. They also work great for winter driving with 4x4.

People who like cars and trucks have a passion and a hobby. Just like guys who like to mod their guitars people like to mod their cars and trucks. I am one of the people who enjoys both. I like seeing what my Warmoths sound like with different pickups, electronics, wiring, bridges and woods just as much as I have loved tuning cars and trucks over the years. I had a Ram that I tuned into a beast that also became the vehicle that was the most fun to drive over any of the sports cars I had ever owned too. Your truck hatred/misunderstanding is a bad example because they are fun to drive. A lot of fun. Drop the hammer on the right one and you will smile ear to ear if you are a fan of driving at all.

Ok, back to guitars and woods.
 
Re: Does wood make a difference?

That, after all is said and done, is what they are for.
 
Re: Does wood make a difference?

DreX said:
You (and everyone else who says "play yer guitar trust yer ears") seem a bit bitter about these threads. You have to appreciate that some people like technical things. They're almost two entirely different hobbies. I bring up the example of Leo Fender, a hero of a guitar world who was all about the technical side of things, not at all about the playing. There are people who like to work on cars, it would be like telling them to do less tuning and do more driving.
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DreX said:
I didn't say Leo Fender didn't care about the playability of his instruments, I'm saying that he never played.. at all. There is zero requirement that you play a guitar, ort even know how to play a guitar, in order to take pleasure in the technical aspects of the instrument. Why then do people always post about how we should stop taking interesting in technical details and play more? What is their motivation for harassing us about our interest in technical precision?
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I guess "all about the techinical side of things, not at all about the playing" was posted by someone other than DreX, your account must've been hacked! :duck: lol

Yes, Leo Fender never learned to play guitar but you said he was all about the technical side and not the playing side–your words not mine. He was constantly improving his amps and guitars to accommodate the player's needs (such as tummy cuts on bodies so that they did not stick into one's side when playing)

Hahahaha! :lmao: Harassing you?! :bsflag: I speak for many who would say you of all members should not be crying about harassment... If you read where I am coming from I am saying music is meant to be heard so trust your ears (and hands for how well a guitar plays), not technicalities.

DreX said:
Nothing derails a thread quite like asking people why they care about the topic in the first place. Why do you care that we care? Why post in a thread that is supposedly of no interest to you? There are so many other uninteresting threads to choose from...

I wish I could say I was derailing this thread, but I keep posting about tone wood :(
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Who brought up mechanics? T'wasn't me :D

DreX said:
I know people who tune their vehicles unnecessarily, especially involving trucks that are not meant to / never will be raced. Then there's guys who don't own a Ferrari or a Bugatti, and almost certainly never will, but they read the car magazines and keep score over which exotic car maker is offering more horsepower or better zero to sixty times, and I'm sure how they feel to drive would matter, if there was any chance they would ever actually be driving them.
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Wow...so trucks were never meant to race? Cars were not meant to race either when first invented. Trucks never will be raced? NASCAR would be so disappointed in that statement (*misstatement.) Many people sup up their trucks for racing...like a lots even in my small hometown in Texas. lol :burnout:

Unnecessarily tune up? Some would say getting your guitar setup more than twice a year is unnecessary but that doesn't mean they enjoy the setup for the sake of the setup. I don't know these people of yours who tune their vehicle unnecessarily, but I highly doubt that they do it without driving the vehicle in mind...you don't get a car a tuneup to sit pretty in a garage and never drive it. Classic cars that sit need an oil change and tune up before they are driven...because they are going to be driven.
 
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Re: Does wood make a difference?

How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood.

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