Dokken/Lynch amp Tone

[Ball&Chain]

Re: Dokken/Lynch amp Tone

I have an HT-20 combo, so I can input on a few things.

Yep, the HT-20 is a dark, more modern sounding amp. I believe the HT-40 has 2 voicings. If I recall one is a bit brighter with more bite and I dont think that is the voicing the HT-20 has.

The HT-20 combo comes with a pretty crappy speaker. Celestion Rocket 50 or some crap like that. That could be something to look at before pickups. The JB pickup isn't famous for the 80's metal tones because it cant get them. The pickup should be fine. I'd look at the speaker.

There are 2 12ax7 preamp tubes. One is for the gain channel and one is for the clean channel. You can try sticking a tung-sol in the gain channel socket. My ht-20 came with TAD tubes. I tried swapping one out with a tung sol and didnt notice much if any difference, granted I haven't really opened the amp up since the swap, so my opinion could change once I do.

I'm actually surprised the overdrive pedal in front doesn't make a difference. I have a hardwire overdrive and it completely adds that bite the amp didn't have before or at least it did before I changed the speaker. I tend to not feel the need for the OD pedal now.

Another thing you could try for giggles is the gus g trick turning all the EQ on 11. It actually sounds pretty good that way.

 

[emaccarthy]

Re: Dokken/Lynch amp Tone

I already swapped out the speaker to a celestion lynchback. Jb can't get 80s tone?!?! That is what they mostly used back in the day. Most charvels come with them! It is the archetypical 80s sounding pup. Warren demartini used it exclusively until he had his own made which is based off of the jb. I think the pup is fine. It's the dark sounding amp that needs attention

 

[Ball&Chain]

Re: Dokken/Lynch amp Tone

Jb can't get 80s tone?!?!

Re-read the post in context. Its another way of saying the JB pickup basically IS the 80's tone.

 

[emaccarthy]

Re: Dokken/Lynch amp Tone

Ahhhhhhh! Haha ok sorry. I was really confused there for a second. Back to pre amp tubes. Ideas? Dual tung sols?

 

[vinta9e]

Re: Dokken/Lynch amp Tone

Getting a spare 12ax7 won't hurt. Even if you decide it does not help, you'll have a spare ready for future times, and one day that might come in handy. But one thing got me wondering - only two 12ax7s for a high gain two channel amp basically implies half of the amp is solid state.

 

[emaccarthy]

Re: Dokken/Lynch amp Tone

Correct me if I'm wrong blackstar owners but I think one pre amp tube is for the gain channel and the other pre amp tube is for the clean channel. I believe the amp is full tube. It has 2 ecc83s and 2 el34s stock. Two channel amp. Does this sound right?

 

[Ball&Chain]

Re: Dokken/Lynch amp Tone

Getting a spare 12ax7 won't hurt. Even if you decide it does not help, you'll have a spare ready for future times, and one day that might come in handy. But one thing got me wondering - only two 12ax7s for a high gain two channel amp basically implies half of the amp is solid state.

I think I stated this in a previous post, but technically, only one of those 12ax7's is for the gain channel. The other 12ax7 is for the clean channel. This is easy to test and I have. Just remove 1 12ax7, turn the amp on and see which channel doesn't work.

Yes, there is some solid state stuff happening in the preamp. There are alot of arguments out there on this subject, though I think it was determined some of the distortion is generated via solid state as well. As far as I know, the power section is all EL34 tube.

Ahhhhhhh! Haha ok sorry. I was really confused there for a second. Back to pre amp tubes. Ideas? Dual tung sols?

The above should answer this question. No need unless you are looking to change the clean channel also.

 

[vinta9e]

Re: Dokken/Lynch amp Tone

The HT20's power section would most probably consist of a pair of EL84 driven by "something else", since all the 12ax7s are already busy.

 

[Ball&Chain]

Re: Dokken/Lynch amp Tone

The HT20's power section would most probably consist of a pair of EL84 driven by "something else", since all the 12ax7s are already busy.

Nope, they are EL34's. Not common in a 20-watt amp i know, but thats what it is. They also have Standby, but no Standby switch. Figure that one out.

HT Studio 20 Combo Overview

20 Watt valve combo
2xECC83, 2xEL34
Two footswitchable channels
12" Celestion speaker
Enhanced tone controls
Patented Infinite Shape Feature (ISF)

Master volume
Digital reverb
Speaker emulated output
Effects loop
1-way footswitch included
Cool vintage styling

http://www.blackstaramps.com/products/ht-studio20/

 

[vinta9e]

Re: Dokken/Lynch amp Tone

That's a bit odd because it's a bit of a waste. You could crank 60 watt and more from a pair of 34s.

 

[emaccarthy]

Re: Dokken/Lynch amp Tone

The standby is actually kinda cool. It's built into the jack. Just unplug the guitar and the amp goes into standby

 

[vinta9e]

Re: Dokken/Lynch amp Tone

Same story as the ISF; kinda cool but no brown sound. :wall:

 

[misterwhizzy]

Re: Dokken/Lynch amp Tone

In the HT-5, the preamp for both channels shares a tube, and the distortion is basically generated by a pair of clipping diodes. If you want to go search, I posted a whole bunch of pics of the guts of the amp highlighting the solid-state parts.

I think the amp sounds great, so I don't care if it's a hybrid. If I remember right, the input stage, i.e. V1, is solid-state, and so is the PI. So there are still a couple tube stages in the preamp, and the power stage is tube.

I don't know what the point of this post is, but I've been through this enough times that I feel like I can say with a bit of authority what's going on inside the amp.

 

[emaccarthy]

Re: Dokken/Lynch amp Tone

Sounds reasonable. In your opinion will swapping out the preamp tubes shape the tone a bit? An hour ago I was set on ordering a Tung Sol for the OD channel but then thought about upgrading the Clean as well. Why not, tubes dont cost that much, its fun to plug and play and even if its just slightly better, one step closer. What recommendations are out there or a nice glassy/jangly type pre amp tube that would compliment the Tung Sol well. Or should I just throw in matching Tung Sol 12AX7s. I was thinking about these: http://www.tubedepot.com/ts-12ax7.html maybe a high gain one for OD and a low noise/low microphonics one for clean?

 

[misterwhizzy]

Re: Dokken/Lynch amp Tone

I don't think you can go wrong with Tung-Sols. They sound a lot like ElectroHarmonix, and similar to the Sovtek LPS, both of which are very good tubes as well, but it seems to beat them at their own game by a small margin. Right now, though, I have a Mullard RI in V1 of my amp because I like the crunchy mids and slightly rounded top. It has seemed to work for my distortion tone a bit better than the Tung-Sol.

But if you're looking for clarity and brightness with plenty of gain, I don't think you can beat the Tung-Sol right now. At worst, you have a spare tube.

As for the rest of the pack, here's my quick summation:
EHX: Slightly thinner with slightly less defined highs than the Tung-Sol, same overall tonality.
JJ ECC83S: Dark, and I just don't like it. I haven't liked it in my Blackstar, and I haven't liked it in my Jet City. Plenty of gain, but clarity certainly isn't its strong suit.
JJ ECC803S: I actually like this one quite a bit. Something sparkly in the character of the tube, much, much better than the short-plate, with a bit less gain as well.
Chinese: I've only tried what's reported to be the best, the 12AX7AC5 HG+. Phenomenal tube that, when I added it to V2, beefed up the lower mids and bass.
Sovtek LPS: Very clear, very strong gain, but nothing terribly magical about it. It does its job and doesn't complain, just like the Russian soldier it is.

So feel free to ask me any more questions about it recognizing that I'm not an authority. I've just spent some time and money doing the comparisons. I need to order another Mullard one of these days, because I've had a thing for them recently.

 

[emaccarthy]

Re: Dokken/Lynch amp Tone

I like the descriptions of the Tung Sol and know that is what I will get for the OD channel but Im wondering if it will be work alright in the Clean channel as well? Will the high gain aspect of the tube make the clean channel break up sooner? or would it just color the sound a bit and still have it break up per usual. Side note: When I go to tubedepot.com what do the different tests mean under each tube. "Standard Test included, high gain add $2, low noise add $2, matching add 2$, balanced triodes add $2..." what do these different tests mean? Is it how they control each tube for different purposes? for example, if I were to buy two Tung Sols would I get the "High gain" for my OD channel and something like "Low Noise" for my clean? I am intrigued by soooo many options but I am new to this process. Please explain. Thank you!

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Dokken/Lynch amp Tone

the tests are just that they sort and test the tubes for various characteristics . A 12ax7 should have a gain factor of 100 but most modern tubes are closer to 70 so they will hand pick through the tube batches and find you a good one that is closer to 100. Low noise is the same but personally I think its a bit of a scam any tube that passes test should have an acceptable noise level and really unless its going to go into an audiophile amp it wont matter much other than some hiss. Matching is to get mutiple tubes of the same specs absolutely NOT needed in 12ax7's and balanced triodes is only for the PI slot even then not everyone uses them.

All that said please dont think that a 12ax7 swap will radically modify the sound of your amp. They cant change the basic voicing they can change if the colors and textures a bit if you get what I mean. You shouldnt have any problem with any 12ax7 regarding your clean channel it might break up a little sooner with one thats higher gain but most amps (im not familiar with the blackstars schematic so wont say for sure) run the clean channel through only 1 gain section of 1 tube and then run the gain channel through 3 or more gain sections of multiple tubes (My modded JCM800 has 7 gain stages so the totals it just depends on the amp design)

 

[vinta9e]

Re: Dokken/Lynch amp Tone

I think the amp sounds great, so I don't care if it's a hybrid. If I remember right, the input stage, i.e. V1, is solid-state, and so is the PI. So there are still a couple tube stages in the preamp, and the power stage is tube.

I'm fine with your opinion and neither do I care about the topology of the amp in question. However, let me just state the fact, the input stage and phase inverter being solid state imply that neither the preamp nor the poweramp are of the all-tube kind.

I don't know what the point of this post is, but I've been through this enough times that I feel like I can say with a bit of authority what's going on inside the amp.

I'm not denying your knowledge of the amp. My point is, since the HT20 is nothing like the famous modded amps of the eighties, it's not going to sound and feel alike.

Sounds reasonable. In your opinion will swapping out the preamp tubes shape the tone a bit? An hour ago I was set on ordering a Tung Sol for the OD channel but then thought about upgrading the Clean as well. Why not, tubes dont cost that much, its fun to plug and play and even if its just slightly better, one step closer. What recommendations are out there or a nice glassy/jangly type pre amp tube that would compliment the Tung Sol well. Or should I just throw in matching Tung Sol 12AX7s. I was thinking about these: http://www.tubedepot.com/ts-12ax7.html maybe a high gain one for OD and a low noise/low microphonics one for clean?

Go ahead and order two, you'll save some overhead on shipping. Noise and microphonics are of lesser concern in low gain applications, e.g. clean tones. Matching is unneccessary in this case.

 

[emaccarthy]

Re: Dokken/Lynch amp Tone

Are the gold pin versions worth anything? Or is it just more bling to charge people with and would I be best to stick with the regular Tung Sols

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Dokken/Lynch amp Tone

Are the gold pin versions worth anything? Or is it just more bling to charge people with and would I be best to stick with the regular Tung Sols

dont bother with the gold pins