Easy pickup changing solution

[harmonix1234]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

Yeah cool, I never heard of Molex before this thread. Still don't really know what it is but based on what you say they sound ideal. Will go and Google them now.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

On the flip side, a company could standardize plugs so to say "Go ahead, try the competition, you'll like ours better." It would be a bold move of course.

No big PU company is going to do that. Can you see DiMarzio and Duncan using the same connectors, so that the public can easily jump ship to the other brand? Yes, they would lose some sales, and for that reason standardization isn't going to happen. If they can't agree on a standard wire color coding system, how naïve is it to think they'd agree on the same connector? On many guitars, connectors won't fit thru the wire tunnels in the guitar body (I have guitars where thicker wires won't even fit thru), so guitar makers would also have to be in on this, which is not going to happen either. Way too much time and money for manufacturers to spend fixing a non-problem. Soldering takes seconds, the quickest part of a PU swap. If that's why you don't change PU's, you need a better excuse. If you're trying a bunch of PU's in a guitar (and very few players have more than one spare PU at a time), you can make temporary connections twisting and taping wires, or using alligator clips. To expect the world's PU and guitar industries to jump thru hoops for this is pure fantasy.

All you have to do is look at semi-auto pistols and rifles: almost every single model intentionally has a unique magazine designed so that it won't fit in anything else. Very frustrating for consumers, but manufacturers want every sale they can possibly make.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

No one swaps pups constantly to try and cop the tone of famous recordings. Ive seen atleast a dozen cover bands play "sweet child o mine" on a strat with single coils.

Sorry but this is a lame excuse especially considering how small of a role the pickup plays in the over all tone. Swapping amps would make more sense than swapping pups.

Cover bands work 1 of 2 ways. Either they cover only 1 band and so they mimic the gear of that band or they cover lots of bands so they make a set up that can cover a range of tones.

Not a single person in a bar has ever said "wow crazy train sounded good but would have sounded better if it had been played on a T-top"

Based on my 37 years of playing live in cover bands and original bands, I disagree with this; other than the last sentence. The only reason I've ever swapped pickups was to cop a famous tone. Sure amp plays a role, but as far as the guitar itself, the pickup is a major factor. Often I'm playing festivals or multi-band situations where I don't get to use my own amp, so I need as much control via the guitar and pedals as possible to compensate for whatever the amp is/isn't doing, and compensating for what impact the room is causing, and still get as close as possible to the tone I need. And even if using my own amp(s), the pickup matters. If I can only bring one amp to the gig, I'm still compensating via the guitar and pedals for what only one amp can/can not do live, and compensating for the characteristics of the venue.

 

[dominus]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

I think the biggest reason you don't see an abundance of quick-change solution for pickups is that, generally, the average player doesn't spend a lot of time or energy swapping different pickups in and out of their guitars. They tend to find the ones they like in a guitar and leave them there, at least for a while. Quick-change connectors, copper contacts, etc. are always going to be failure points when compared to something more permanent like a soldered connection. Contacts can corrode, require pressure from springs or bent pieces of metal that can fatigue, etc.

I've had a few devices that required the batteries to be pulled out and stuck in a charger using those contact points. After a year of charging every other day they work fine. That's 180-ish swaps.

EMG, Duncan, and GFS all use the same 3 pin quick connector for active pickups. (Granted, GFS swapped some of the connectors so it takes a minute to pop the cables out of the connector and pop them back in.) A 5 pin connector on the bottom of a pickup like the EMG-HZs have (perhaps with some sort of mechanical locking device - something that can be replaced *if* it wears out) seems practical enough. The pin connector would probably add about $1 to the cost of the manufacture of each pickup, and of course the baseplates would have to be modified slightly for them to be mounted up, but otherwise I can't see it being that difficult to implement. You'd never have to worry about short leads on used pickups again either, as you'd just be able to buy replacements and plug them in.

 

[dominus]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

All you have to do is look at semi-auto pistols and rifles: almost every single model intentionally has a unique magazine designed so that it won't fit in anything else. Very frustrating for consumers, but manufacturers want every sale they can possibly make.

Magazines don't cost all that much, and if they do, third party companies step up and make replacements.

And personally, I have a slight problem with depth perception, so soldering is the hardest part of a pickup swap for me.

 

[Kac]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

I'm happy with the Liberator volume pot in my Ibanez. Wire up everything exactly the way I want it one time and after that it's just a little screw driver for every change.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

Based on my 37 years of playing live in cover bands and original bands, I disagree with this; other than the last sentence. The only reason I've ever swapped pickups was to cop a famous tone. Sure amp plays a role, but as far as the guitar itself, the pickup is a major factor. Often I'm playing festivals or multi-band situations where I don't get to use my own amp, so I need as much control via the guitar and pedals as possible to compensate for whatever the amp is/isn't doing, and compensating for what impact the room is causing, and still get as close as possible to the tone I need. And even if using my own amp(s), the pickup matters. If I can only bring one amp to the gig, I'm still compensating via the guitar and pedals for what only one amp can/can not do live, and compensating for the characteristics of the venue.

Yeah not buying it at all... swapping pups to cop GNR tone but using the dual recto provided by the venue wont do a damn thing. Trying to fix an incorrect amp is like trying fix a flat tire by turning on the air conditioner.

Sorry that dog wont hunt... try another one.

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

In a perfect world, the Liberator would have been just the beginning of additional wiring harnesses and components, not a standalone product. But even just one Liberator without modification handles a very large number of pickup configurations.

I have no idea about the quality or this company but it seems these guys have expanded what I did with the Liberator to include more components and choices: http://madhatterguitarproducts.com/pages/mad-hatter-solderless-tone-shaping-system-kits

It seems they've adopted the same screw terminal style I chose for the Liberator, which is a good type. It cradles the wire in such a way that you can use the same exposed wire several times before stripping back another 1/8" if you lightly tin the wires, then even longer.

Then you have these guys too: http://www.toneshapers.com

Products like these and the Liberator, that accept any number of pickup brand's bare wires are really the only way to attempt to standardize a quick change solution.

 

[SoundAt11]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

I've had a few devices that required the batteries to be pulled out and stuck in a charger using those contact points. After a year of charging every other day they work fine. That's 180-ish swaps.

EMG, Duncan, and GFS all use the same 3 pin quick connector for active pickups. (Granted, GFS swapped some of the connectors so it takes a minute to pop the cables out of the connector and pop them back in.) A 5 pin connector on the bottom of a pickup like the EMG-HZs have (perhaps with some sort of mechanical locking device - something that can be replaced *if* it wears out) seems practical enough. The pin connector would probably add about $1 to the cost of the manufacture of each pickup, and of course the baseplates would have to be modified slightly for them to be mounted up, but otherwise I can't see it being that difficult to implement. You'd never have to worry about short leads on used pickups again either, as you'd just be able to buy replacements and plug them in.

Exactly, the "lost sales" argument is bogus and the fact that all three major makers of Active pickups use identical connectors is proof of it not being an issue.
Let's say Duncan and Dimarzio agreed to use a quick-connect type plug that was interchangeable.
"But they'll lose sales!"
To who?
If Dimarzio lost sales and Duncan lost sales, where did they go? Wouldn't someone have to gain sales?
In reality, people are going to try both companies products and likely buy more pickups because they're easy to change and they don't have to pay someone to solder them in. If they're easy to swap, people might be more likely to keep the previous pickup around rather than sell it. Additionally, the pickup manufacturer stands to gain new product sales from people that would otherwise buy used. If I could save the hassle of soldering pickups, I'd be more apt to pay the price of a new Duncan pickup rather than saving some by buying used.
Most guitar players aren't electronics geniuses, tinkerers, or guys that know how to solder (or even want to bother learning). When I talk with my guitar playing friends about swapping pickups, they're all like "huh?". Their typical response is either "I don't know how to solder", "I don't want to pay someone to do that", or even "I didn't know you could do that".

 

[harmonix1234]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

The most dangerous answer to a question is "Because that's the way we have always done it".
I am excited by the thought of doing things differently to the way guitarists have always done it.
Imagine having a universal route that could accept multiple shapes, imagine being in the studio and writing and recording music with all the new sonic avenues you have never had before. Write music based around tones you never had.
Being able to switch from a creamy vintage soapbar to a high gain bucker, to a warm organic PAF and then to a Tele style twangin' single coil. All within seconds.
People have pedal boards with all kinds of tools to shape the tone. Once upon a time we never had that, but look how it has influenced and inspired styles and idioms that never existed before.
If we don't do things simply because we have never done it before, you'll only ever get what you've always got.
I have also been in the cycling industry for two decades, and one of the magnificent things about the industry is the cross compatibility of components through industry standards.
The combinations are limitless, and this has only seen sales expand massively every year on all products.
Companies won't lose sales by standardizing, because people are (just like in cycling) reasonably brand loyal once they have found what they like, people know what they like as a component for it's qualities to do what that product intends to do, not the standard that it sits within, and lastly, people like to experiment as we are naturally curious beings.
If someone buys a JB, likes it, but just wonders a bit about a Fred and a Tone Zone, sure they will try them all more likely if the mounting standard only takes seconds. But at the end of the day, if that person prefers the JB, they will go back to it and say 'no harm in trying'.
The more people experiment the more they learn and the general knowledge base of that hobby-community goes up. I could go on as to why I like the idea, but I'm just flogging a dead horse because I doubt it will ever happen. But my point being, for every industry and product that has it's own unique standards, there are just as many universal standards.
Those guns, with their non compatible magazines, well they all take a standardised calibre bullet. Which, are made by many, many brands. And people buy the bullets they like after trial and error and seeing what works for them and their rifle and style of shooting - just like pickups in a guitar.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

Exactly, the "lost sales" argument is bogus and the fact that all three major makers of Active pickups use identical connectors is proof of it not being an issue.

If Dimarzio lost sales and Duncan lost sales, where did they go?

The lost sales would go to competitors, which makes this less-than-desirable for some PU makers. Most PU makers might warm up to the idea of proprietary connectors so the PU's you're able to try are theirs, not someone else's. If the big ones aren't on board with universal connectors, the whole concept fizzles out. Active PU makers like a clean, sealed system, it's a different mindset; they don't want people taking apart their PU's or doing more than is absolutely necessary with the other components. Good luck getting passive PU makers to use universal connectors; until guitar manufacturers make wire channels bigger, it's not a universal benefit. The first step in this is the guitar makers. Everyone has to be onboard: all the big guitar and PU makers need to spend time meeting together and discussing this, and coming to a consensus, and then putting the money into design changes. I don't see that happening, or that it's a 'problem' that requires that much time, money, and people. In the time the people here have spent complaining, they could have soldered in dozens of PU's. If you can work a cell phone, you can solder.

Apparently there's a misconception that changing PU's can be done 'in seconds.' It's not that fast; the soldering takes seconds, the rest of swapping takes a lot longer.

 

[harmonix1234]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

The pickup swap would take seconds if it were done like the OP stated, like changing the battery in a phone.

 

[Supra]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

it is not about universal standardizing for all manufacturers. Ability to change pups of one manufacturer easily would deter customers from swapping on other manufacturer's products. EMG's quick connect shows the idea (but still a bit complicated to be really enough easy and quick (need to be screwed off at least).

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

Yeah not buying it at all... swapping pups to cop GNR tone but using the dual recto provided by the venue wont do a damn thing. Trying to fix an incorrect amp is like trying fix a flat tire by turning on the air conditioner.

Sorry that dog wont hunt... try another one.

You don't have to buy it. I'm speaking my view based on my experience, which you aren't in any position to dispel. And your presumption of the specific problem and solution are absolutely incorrect.

 

[harmonix1234]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

it is not about universal standardizing for all manufacturers. Ability to change pups of one manufacturer easily would deter customers from swapping on other manufacturer's products. EMG's quick connect shows the idea (but still a bit complicated to be really enough easy and quick (need to be screwed off at least).

Agree the EMG system is not that quick.
It's clean, but no quicker than solder for me.
I recently installed an Sa Sa 89 set in a guitar with all solderless system and took longer than if I had used solder on a passive setup.
This was due to:
A) I have been soldering for decades, and know the wiring patterns off the top of my head for this setup.
B) the EMG diagrams weren't that clear. One diagram showed the five wire colours on the 89 in a different order to the actual connector. And spent ages going over diagrams again and again.
And, the blue shunt was wrong on the diagram. Following their diagram made the volume dial not work and required I pull it all apart and trial a d error the shunts until it worked.

However, if I had installed the EMG system as many times as I had soldered a passive set, I reckon I'd have dialled down to the same speed.

Where you do save time with the solderless system I guess is not having to set up your soldering iron, wait for it to heat up, cleaning the tip, packing it back up again. And pulling it apart if needed. Which isn't really much time any way.
What is good about it is that it's like Lego. You can disassemble and it's still brand new, just click clack and there are no wires being stripped or cut too short etc

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

Pickup companies "lose sales" already from the used market. I'm sure very few people sell a pickup to buy a new one. Many sell one to buy another used one, under the presumption that they have some need to get as much for theirs as they have to pay for the other, as if they were a business entity and keeping a profit/loss statement.

Ergo, the "lose sales" argument is further invalidated. As long as there's a used supply and a used demand, there's a used market which will never put money in the manufacturer's pocket. Some few might say "this used pickup was my first <brand name>, maybe I'll try their others", but even then, that purchase is more likely to be used than new, as well.

Additionally, if there was an "overnight" switch to universal quick-connection systems, it would only appear on new guitars, where again you have much more activity in the used market. Only the extreme die-hard fanboy would buy a new version of their existing guitar where the only change was the quick-change setup, and that is one of the smallest markets you'd find.
If all new pickups came with the component necessary to convert existing guitars to quick-connect systems, the used pickup market would be flooded as well.

While I'd like to see the idea implemented, too much water has passed under the bridge for it to happen.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

Where you do save time with the solderless system I guess is not having to set up your soldering iron, wait for it to heat up, cleaning the tip, packing it back up again.

Not really. I spend that time loosening strings and unscrewing the old PU's. By the time I'm ready to put the new ones in, the soldering iron is hot.

 

[dukebox]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

Here's a hypothetical question. Suppose Gibson comes out with a new Les Paul, it's the color and trim you've always wanted and that they never offered until now, so you're going to buy it no matter what. They offer two models, a traditional version, or a version with cartridges that will allow you to plug in any pickup from underneath in a matter of seconds. Additional cartridges are inexpensive, and it looks like a normal Les Paul facing on. Neither costs more than the other. Which one do you buy, and why?

 

[harmonix1234]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

Not really. I spend that time loosening strings and unscrewing the old PU's. By the time I'm ready to put the new ones in, the soldering iron is hot.

So true.

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

Here's a hypothetical question. Suppose Gibson comes out with a new Les Paul, it's the color and trim you've always wanted and that they never offered until now, so you're going to buy it no matter what. They offer two models, a traditional version, or a version with cartridges that will allow you to plug in any pickup from underneath in a matter of seconds. Additional cartridges are inexpensive, and it looks like a normal Les Paul facing on. Neither costs more than the other. Which one do you buy, and why?

The traditional, because those so-called "Push Tone" models, which were made for dealers so that customers could sample various Gibson pickups, and were not intended for public sale, have a distinct tonal loss due to the holes that pass through the center of the body.

As for waiting for the iron to heat up, I have one of those quick-heat/quick-cool irons, so time on that is nowhere near what it was with my old pencil-in-a-stand iron. I'm in and out in less than a minute, and since I'm not charging anyone to swap my own pickups, the "time is money" mythos doesn't apply.

I also use jumper clips to test connections before soldering. In the case of rotary and Super switches, I typically put a small wire on every contact before installing them so I can test various wiring schemes. This, however, is where I could see a quick-connect system paying off. Plug a tinned wire attached to each contact into any other contact point, or mount caps and resistors between two contacts, jump multiple contacts to one point, etc.