ECC83s and ECC803s

[ganzosrevenge]

I have a vox ac4tv combo, and I'm thinking of giving it some "goodies"... namely better tubes, speaker, and maybe a merc-magnetics kit. I have my heart set on a celestion G10 for the speaker, but for the tubes I want to know if there is a difference in ecc83 and ecc803 in this amp. I know that ecc803s are more susceptible to vibrations due to the larger plates in combo amps(thanks Trevorus for teaching me this), but they are a bit more gainy in their natural state.

What would make the best "bang for the buck" improvements to the AC4TV, and does someone have a cap diagram for this amp? It's been a great amp for the past 4+ years, and I really want to "open it up" and see what it's made of.

Jason

Signal: American Special Mahogany Strat HSS === AC4TV (no pedals or anything)

 

[misterwhizzy]

Re: ECC83s and ECC803s

Unfortunately, I can't give specific recommendations for that amp. However, I've tried most of the new production tubes in my Blackstar and my Jet City, and I like the Tung-Sols best in both of them. When I put JJs in, the brightness and sparkle and life gets sucked out of them (in V1 anyway). I do like the ECC803S quite a bit better than the short-plate version, but I only use it in V2 to tame a bit of harsh highs if I have to. Right now, though, I've got a Chinese tube in V2, which sounds really good.

This is my experience with the different brands of tubes in Reader's Digest version.
Tung-Sol: Bright, full, clear, plenty of gain.
Sovtek LPS: Balanced, nothing real exciting, very clear.
JJ Long-plate: Tamed high-end, full mids, with a tone that can easily turn muddy.
JJ Short-plate: Dull high-end, blah blah blah boring tube I dislike a lot.
Mullard RI: Smooth gain structure, very different than other tubes, plenty of gain, smooth top end.
Ruby Chinese AC5 High Grade+: Very full in every aspect of the sound. Surprising bass response with as much gainy character as any other tube I've tried. Smoother top-end than the Tung-Sol, but not dull at all.
Electro-Harmonix: Obviously came from the same factory as the Tung-Sol. A bit brighter, a bit thinner to my ears, and slightly less detailed than the Tung-Sol, but a very useful tube.

By the way, if I'm saying this out of turn because you already know, I'm sorry, but 12AX7s, ECC83s, and ECC803Ss are all interchangeable. So take your pick from whatever's out there, and remember that your ears may be very different than mine, and your amp may be very different than mine. By the way, I think changing preamp tubes is a pretty easy way to fine-tune your sound.

 

[James Rock]

Re: ECC83s and ECC803s

If you want modern tubes I like Tung Sols for VOxy stuff but in all the VOX type amps I have experience with '73 VOX AC30 and AC15CC1 the 60's RCA Blackplates sound great and you can get them (not NOS but pretty good quality) on eBay for not too much (may have to sort through a few though depends on the seller).

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: ECC83s and ECC803s

There is a pretty significant difference between the 83S and the 803S.

The 803S is based off of the Telefunken 803S; it has less gain than the 83S in most cases and a more neutral character, to my ears.

The JJ 803S is one of my favourite current-production valves and the only one that favourably compares to my vintage Mullard ECC83's ...

 

[wahwah]

Re: ECC83s and ECC803s

If you want modern tubes I like Tung Sols for VOxy stuff but in all the VOX type amps I have experience with '73 VOX AC30 and AC15CC1 the 60's RCA Blackplates sound great and you can get them (not NOS but pretty good quality) on eBay for not too much (may have to sort through a few though depends on the seller).

This may be a typo, but it should be noted that RCA blackplates are not from the 60's. They changed production over to grey plates at the beginning of 1960, so most available blackplates are from the 1950's. They are one of my favourite tubes, but not in British voiced amps. That's where the early 60's short plate Mullards shine, because they were the tubes that those amps were built and voiced around, just as the early Fenders were voiced around the RCA's.




Cheers....................................... wahwah

 

[ganzosrevenge]

Re: ECC83s and ECC803s

Yea, the problem I have is that I have *TONS* of low end from a mahogany strat. (I put in SSL-1s, and it sounded like a thin-line jazzbox strat. I sent a sample of its sound to trevorus and he said it was "round sound". Still sounded like an SSL-1, but with gobs of low end. But when wide open, it had a nice throaty sound. I'd like to keep that, but reduce the low-end by a tad to balance things out a bit. Or maybe increase the highs a tad while keeping the lows (I do like the fact it can be a "thunderstick" with vintage bits in it).

As for tubes, because I only need 2 tubes per amp (and I like to buy in pairs), I don't mind spending for a few niceties (not NOS, but like long-plates that don't vibrate so much) to improve what I have. (NB: Longplates was an example, some say they have more gain, others less... guide me PLEASE! :1: ).

From what I see, it looks like the mullard RIs are winning.

Thanks,

Jason