Effects loop

[solspirit]

Thanks

 

[Mincer]

My Mesa Blue Angel has a parallel loop, which is sort of a different beast. All of your effects have to be 100% wet so you don't have weird phase issues. But it is basically a clean amp, so I don't use the loop- I put everything in front.

 

[jeremy]

very true, almost everything we talked about here pertains to series loops. parallel loops are a different beast

 

[Open lane]

Fx loop is essential to me on amps where i'm getting the amp to breakup naturally.

on an amp like a fender twin, it isn't as essential because my gain is coming from pedals

 

[LLL]

Don't use them.

Instead I put FX (time-based, modulation) completely after the amp (unless it's one of those "in front of the amp" things like a Phase 90, etc).

Because I have the skilz & I have the toolz.

 

[dave74]

My Mesa Blue Angel has a parallel loop, which is sort of a different beast. All of your effects have to be 100% wet so you don't have weird phase issues. But it is basically a clean amp, so I don't use the loop- I put everything in front.

Yes, and the problem with that (when/if using the parallel loop) is you can only truly get one effect calibrated at a time. For a single effect it's generally a good system.
When running multiple effects you have to blend them all as one with the knob on the back of the amp.
I had all my Mesas modded to the serial loop, and then we used the empty mix control slot to install a send-level bypass toggle.

 

[devastone]

What controls on my amp will I lose?

On some amps you also lose the volume control so the volume is on 10 and you control volume from whatever you are plugging into the fx return.

 

[Top-L]

This question is kinda like asking why cars use unleaded gasoline on the verge of the electrification of all vehicles.

 

[Mincer]

Yes, and the problem with that (when/if using the parallel loop) is you can only truly get one effect calibrated at a time. For a single effect it's generally a good system.
When running multiple effects you have to blend them all as one with the knob on the back of the amp.
I had all my Mesas modded to the serial loop, and then we used the empty mix control slot to install a send-level bypass toggle.

I just don't use mine at all, since it is a clean amp and I get the dirt from a pedal before it.

 

[Erlend_G]

Don't use them.

Instead I put FX (time-based, modulation) completely after the amp (unless it's one of those "in front of the amp" things like a Phase 90, etc).

Because I have the skilz & I have the toolz.

"Yeah, i know those analog delays and tape echos, really sound the best when driven by 100 el34 watts!"

I get what you're at though!

 

[dave74]

I just don't use mine at all, since it is a clean amp and I get the dirt from a pedal before it.

Yeah there's no reason at all for you to deal with the headache if using pedal grit. I was just pointing out that the parallel loops aren't always bad,,,, just usually lol.
For chorus and/or reverb they can actually be great, but beyond that I have no idea what they were thinking.

 

[Mincer]

Yeah there's no reason at all for you to deal with the headache if using pedal grit. I was just pointing out that the parallel loops aren't always bad,,,, just usually lol.
For chorus and/or reverb they can actually be great, but beyond that I have no idea what they were thinking.

I guess 'keep the tone pure'?

 

[JMP/HBE]

As said before time based & modulation [except for Phase 90] all go thru my loop.
Ive done it every which way in 40 years and that work best for me.
I will not buy a gigging amp w/o a loop and all loops are not created equal.

 

[solspirit]

As said before time based & modulation [except for Phase 90] all go thru my loop.
Ive done it every which way in 40 years and that work best for me.
I will not buy a gigging amp w/o a loop and all loops are not created equal.

Good grief. . . You just added another can of worms besides what Dave & Mincer just said to each other.

1. Why aren't all loops created equal?

2. why do you put everything before but the phaser, or why do you put the phaser after?

 

[JMP/HBE]

Good grief. . . You just added another can of worms besides what Dave & Mincer just said to each other.

1. Why aren't all loops created equal?

2. why do you put everything before but the phaser, or why do you put the phaser after?

Too much to type and the fact you're asking prolly won't work for you but i'll be brief.

Signal chain is : G50 wireless > Boss TU-2 tuner > Phase 90 > all overdrives > Decimator gate = into front of amp.
All top row modulation & verb/delay go thru loop.
IDK why but MXR Phase 90 just sound great thru the front and not the loop.

Parallel loop : +4db for rack gear.
Series loop : -10db for pedals.
Some amps have either series or parallel loops, some have both selectable.
Some pedals are buffered, some aren't. {most Boss pedals are buffered}
Somm loops are buffered, some aren't.
YMMV.
Like i said not all loops & pedals are created equal.
Some work really great, some are utter crap.
If you don't get it or are just getting it don't feel bad its taken me years to get this ironed out.

 

[devastone]

Parallel loop : +4db for rack gear.
Series loop : -10db for pedals.

Series and Parallel are different in how they operate, levels are a totally different thing. Soldano loops are line level (+4db) but are also series, some amps has selectable levels or level pots, and the Randal RM head I used had a really hot loop, I had to use a line level shifter to use any pedals with it. This gets important because a Boss single pedal (like a DD-3) in a hot loop will distort, even when it's in bypass because the level is overloading the buffer circuit.

So, yeah, I agree, lots of stuff to figure out with loops.

 

[GuitarStv]

I prefer the sound of the loop for delay, reverb, and tremolo. Flanging usually too. I use mine all the time for this reason.

 

[JMP/HBE]

Series and Parallel are different in how they operate, levels are a totally different thing. Soldano loops are line level (+4db) but are also series, some amps has selectable levels or level pots, and the Randal RM head I used had a really hot loop, I had to use a line level shifter to use any pedals with it. This gets important because a Boss single pedal (like a DD-3) in a hot loop will distort, even when it's in bypass because the level is overloading the buffer circuit.

So, yeah, I agree, lots of stuff to figure out with loops.

Friedman revised the loops on the Soldano SLO 2.0 its very similar to the zero loss Metro loop by George that's in my JMP.
The old SLO loops were notoriously bad unless using rack setups.

 

[LLL]

"Yeah, i know those analog delays and tape echos, really sound the best when driven by 100 el34 watts!"

I get what you're at though!

Yep - studio FX post-processing with a rig.

 

[dave74]

Series and Parallel are different in how they operate, levels are a totally different thing. Soldano loops are line level (+4db) but are also series, some amps has selectable levels or level pots, and the Randal RM head I used had a really hot loop, I had to use a line level shifter to use any pedals with it. This gets important because a Boss single pedal (like a DD-3) in a hot loop will distort, even when it's in bypass because the level is overloading the buffer circuit.

So, yeah, I agree, lots of stuff to figure out with loops.

That is one thing i really like about the Mesa loops, both serial and parallel utilize a send-level pot that can be set wherever you want, but one thing that gets forgotten is that the amp's channel volumes also determine how hot or cold the signal is before getting fed to the send-level pot.

In other words, you could blast the send-level to max (*or bypass it completely on my modded mesas) and still not clip a Boss single pedal's input if the channel volumes are set very low.
Where the send-level really comes in handy is for those who run high or max channel volumes and need to knock the signal down for a stompbox's input to not distort.