Effects Modeling Processor or Pedals , what do you use and why?

[mantis]

Re: Effects Modeling Processor or Pedals , what do you use and why?

Glad to help

With all the amount of options available in the gt10 to set level values at different places in the signal chain, it eventually starts to get very confusing as to where & what to adjust and at which point so as to get the 4CM to work at its best. It can be a real PITA if you start to adjust different stuff randomly again & again. Still, each different amp's fx loop has a certain impedance value, so some stuff just won't behave properly with some amps out there.

In Step 1. you were basically just looking to get the same gain level between the Send of the Gt10 and your amp's input. There should be nothing plugged into the FX loop of the amp, you should however turn the loop ON for the amp though, because some amps sound little different when their loop is activated.
In most cases unity gain is easy to achieve here, because at this point leaving aside the global setting for input gain and presence nothing else in the gt10 has any effect on your guitars sound on an initialised patch. This is basically where you find out how much transparent the gt10 is to your guitar's signal being sent to the amp. But considering it's a buffered signal, you need to adjust the input presence only to compensate for treble increase if necessary. Once you get the Send level adjusted to unity gain, it should not be adjusted again when trying to adjust the Return level.

So if this step itself doesn't yield satisfactory results then I wouldn't bother going further with the rest of the 4CM hookup IMO. But if it works then the rest is easy. Set the output knob on the gt10 to a fixed position(noon for me) and adjust the Return level for unity. Try not to move around too much when doing this, always check the sound of your amp at a fixed position, the sound changes depending on where you stand before/behind/side of it. Make sure the Noise Gates are turned OFF as well. And as usual cables can have an effect on your signal so having some clear sounding cables is always a good idea.

Apart from this GT stuff, I think you should get yourself a dedicated true analog delay & wah pedal. There is something very unique about these dedicated pedals that is very hard to get from a MFX unit to be happy with for me. I think you'll be much more happy adding these to your gt10 then using the ones built in. The wahs sound a little optical in the gt, although you can customize them and everything but there is something unique about a non-optical wah that's hard to replicate for me. The analog delay sim is ok in the gt10 but doesn't behave like my analog EHX memory boy delay. I never liked the reverb in there either, amp reverb all day from me. Also not a fan of the BBE Sonic Stomp either, don't use it when adjusting 4CM levels.
I'd suggest getting a used MXR Carbon Copy delay & some wah that you like the feel & sound of at a store, instead of getting the gt100, should end up alot less expensive too.

Hank,
thank you again for a very helpful post. Unfortunately, The GT-10 is not transparent. No matter how much I try, It still sounds different then nothing at all. So if I turn everything off , no effects nothing. Match the levels so the gain is exactly the same, it still has this fuzzy sound and the picking dynamics are reduced. I don't use the BBE Sonic stomp that much , only when I want a tonal change here and there. It's a fun pedal I had in the past , sold and then picked up a new one recently. It's completely transparent when off , you could use it as a cable barrel and never turn it on and never know it was in the chain.
Basically it sucks the life out of my tone. It almost makes it sound solid state, I lose the tube warmth. I spent a few hours dialing in with nothing on at all, even the clean channel is effected more then I originally thought.
Honestly I'm still after all these years surprised in Boss that they make such a cool effects processor and have it not sound transparent. I've never experienced this in their stand alone pedals. If they did alter the tone when off , it didn't stick out like the GT does.

I have a feeling I'm a bit to picky with my tone and everything about it effects my playing. When I run a DD-20, CE-20 and a BBE Sonic Stomp in the effects loop, out front of the amp I run a Bad Horsie Wah and a Krank Distortus maximus( For another sound option) I get NO sound digression. I can turn everything off and get the same tone as If I remove everything and just plug straight in. Minus of this setup which is why I have been attracted to the GT series over the years (GT-8 and GT-10) is pedal dancing. I have written songs that I like chorus and delay when I play the clean parts and just delay when I switch channels to the drive channel for the driven parts. This means I have to turn the chorus off and switch channels. When you have to go back and forth , this really sucks. The GT-10 I can program patches for these changes seamlessly which is exactly all I want.
Why the GT gotta be so difficult to setup and then still not sound right sucks ass.
From what I have been told , the GT-100 is a much better less tone suck out effects processor. It's supposed to be more organic sounding. I'm willing to give it one last go as I love the flexibility and ease of patch setup. This is an area of the GT boards I have no problems at all. I can setup chains exactly how I want them , add effects and setup each effect exactly how I intend on using them. Even the Wah and volume control VIA expression pedal is awesome. I don't use Wah hardly never so it's not even an issue.
I also think the effects in the GT series sound very much like the stand alone counter parts. IF and thats a huge IF the GT was transparent 100% exactly like the stand alone pedals, I would love this thing. It's the ONLY problem I have with it and had with the GT-8 years ago.

Again Hank thank you so much for your help, it got me closer to where I want to be but I can't get it transparent. The Loss of dynamics is a huge things as well as I use that almost like a volume control. I pick very soft then a bit harder to full on attack in my rhythm playing. When it doesn't respond exactly how I want it, I'm out.

 

[mantis]

Re: Effects Modeling Processor or Pedals , what do you use and why?

Honestly I feel like using that much equipment is GAS worthy of conseling. LOL! Me, I could never find ANY rack unit that covered what I needed it to. I may like the reverb or delay but hated the other fx and despised the stock EQ's. I won't even get started on the god awful distortions.

Reminds me of my first band. The lead player had a rack as tall as him but on stage no one heard him over my simple JCM900 & Rat pedal. For me, less is more. Unless you're a signed pro player who can have a roadie take care of this stuff for you it's just impractical.

When I do choose to use fx I go pedals. Easy enough to remove when not necessary. Would like to try the Line 6 M9 though. They sound interesting.

Sorry I'm no help in your dilemma but that fx rig just blew my mind. Haven't seen anyone use that much stuff since the 80's.

Cool man , I like simple to. I have no problems setting up effects VIA pedals as I figured out order made a huge difference very early in my playing(Early 80's). These effects processors alter your tone and pedals don't no where near as much if they do. Maybe it's because I use only a few and not a train of them in front or in the effects loop.
Honestly I can be completely happy with just Chorus, Delay, Reverb,Sonic Stomp, OD and maybe a Wah for fun. I have no use for any other effect. Even phaser and flanger I have owned over the years and they get little to no playing time so I just sold them.

 

[Hank-]

Re: Effects Modeling Processor or Pedals , what do you use and why?

Hey Dan, no problem. Sometimes certain equipments just don't get along with each other. Atleast you were able to dial it in a little better than before. I still think you should skip on the GT100. The improvement i heard about it was in the picking dynamics relative to its internal Preamps. If you don't use them then it's a waste IMO. Another thing is that there is no spillover for delay & reverb when changing patches. They did add a ground lift switch for the S/R loop & changed the impedance values for it, so it may perform differently than the GT10 in 4CM.

There is the Zoom G3 or G3X that you might be more happy with in your case. It's simple to use, no deep editing & stuff, 6 simultaneous fx at once. You can use it either in front or in the loop of your amp, in patch mode or individual stomp mode. So that should be easy to change delay chorus & reverb for you & you could run a regular wah & Dist pedal in front. It won't change the amp's channels but it's about $170 new for the G3 & $200 for the G3X. Effects quality is also really good.:14:
You can give this a try if the GT100 doesn't work out for ya

 

[mantis]

Re: Effects Modeling Processor or Pedals , what do you use and why?

Hank,
I never checked out a Zoom anything. I'll have to take one for a test drive. I'm gonna try out the GT-100 at home in my rig and if it doesn't perform the way I want, I'm gonna return it. Sam Ash has a great return policy and I'm gonna give it a shot.
I really want it to work out as I love programming it and setting it up exactly how I like.
I'm surprised no one makes a GT like product with just effects. I asked Boss to make one and clean up the damn signal path so it's a true bypass. I don't care if it cost twice as much as long as it sounds how it should. It's the only flaw I found with the GT-10. Everything else is awesome. I don't need the internal preamps but I do however play around with them from time to time.