EMG vs Duncan vs Dimarzio

[BigJoe77]

Re: EMG vs Duncan vs Dimarzio

Good point on the thread title.

It's sort of a double edged sword. If I post that I'm chasing Keith Urban's sound, I haven't seen much mention of him on this board, so I kind of doubt there would be much feedback. But I certainly could have titled it better. I guess in this case I am looking for a specific piece of info, but am interested in the general thoughts of the board in getting there. Everyone has definitely helped contribute to my understanding of how EMG's interact with the overall chain. And for that I thank all of you.

 

[Archer_of_Fish]

Re: EMG vs Duncan vs Dimarzio

I've heard the rumor that he was using an SA in the bridge of his Tele, but I don't quite understand how.

Can you take the guts out of one and put it in the housing of another? Maybe it can be done. The reason I say that is because the SA has the screw mounting holes on either end like any traditional strat pickup does, but his EMG is mounted with the traditional one over/2 under screws inserted in the bridge. Plus, he's listed as an endorser of the EMG-RT Tele bridge pickup. (He's like my personal version of EVH tone chasing.)

I read an article where Keith said his tele had an SA strat pickup in the bridge.

it could be screwed straight into the wood.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: EMG vs Duncan vs Dimarzio

OK. Since the title is EMG vs Duncan vs Dimarzio I'll compare.

I can really only compare EMG vs. Duncan Strat pickups. Never owned EMG humbucker size pickups and my experience with Dimarzio single coils is very limited.

Comparing EMG David Gilmour and Vince Gill Strat sets with Duncan vintage style Strat sets like Antiquity Surfers, Antiquity Texas Hots, SSL-1 and APS-2:



I find that the EMG sets seem to be:

1. hum-free and very quiet
2. a little more opaque - not quite as transparent and bubbley
3. the tone is fatter - more mids and less space in the tone
4. more even in tone - the notes from string to string and high to low seem to sound sound more even and ring at closer to the same volume from note to note
5. the sustain seems more even, consistent and predictable from note to note.
6. I can turn up the volume and tone controls and dial in Gibson-esque tones and overdrive my amp in a way that's similar to using a full size humbucker
7. Much greater range of tones. I can dial in a very clean tone or a very overdriven tone and everything in-between



I find that the Duncan vintage style Strat pickups seem to be:

1. a more authentic 50's and 60's Strat tone
2. more bubbley, brighter and glassier
3. hum like crazy when used under neon lights or used in a poorly grounded room, studio or stage
4. less even in tone from string to string and note to note
5. the sustain is less predictable and less consistent - just like a vintage Strat.
6. I cannot overdrive my amp and push it into distortion unless the volume of the amp is turned up to 5 or more
7. I cannot make them sound like a Gibson guitar or full size humbucker without a overdrive pedal
8. less versatile in terms of being able to go from clean tones to very overdriven tones and do it all from the guitar without pedals

My experience with Dimarzios has not been good. I've owned Hamer Sunbursts with Dimarzio Super Distortion bridge and paf style neck humbuckers and found the tone to be a little grainy and metallic on top. That grainy textured metallic quality sounded good through a cranked to distortion level Marshall and I can see why the rock guys like Satriani and Vai use them - but it's not my tone. I prefer a smoother, warmer tone like Seymour designs into his humbuckers. Seymour's humbuckers sound more like vintage Gibson humbuckers to me. More of the familiar tone I grew up with.

As for Dimarzio Strat single coils, ten years ago I bought a MIJ Strat with old Dimarzio vintage style Strat pickups in it and I found them to be weak, low in output and not in the same league as Duncans. I think Dimarzio has improved them since then but I was so turned off I haven't tried any Dimarzios since then.

So which do I prefer?

For vintage Strat and Gibson tones I much prefer Duncans. As far as Strat tones go, I love the Duncan Antiquity Surfers! I just wish they were noiseless. The Duncan Classic Stack Plus pickups are very similar and are noise free. They sound great but I want that last 5-10% of totally vintage accurate tone and feel and so I prefer the Duncan Surfers. I think they are the finest vintage style Strat pickups I've ever owned and I've owned Fralins, Rio Grande, Van Zandt and others. I even prefer them to the original pickups of my original '63 Strat that I've owned since about 1975.

But onstage and in the studio I do like to use the EMG David Gilmour set sometimes. It's so freeing to have a 100% quiet guitar onstage with no hum. And it's fun to crank up the volume and tone controls and dial in a cool overdriven tone for solos.

I also want to add that I've not tried Duncan's newest active Strat pickups but have owned the original Duncan Livewire Hot set. I now have the EMG David Gilmour set in that Strat and prefer them. They're brighter and more transparent when I dial in a clean Strat sound.

But I had a lot of fun with that old Duncan Livewire Hot set, and it's the set that taught me that active pickups are not sterile and bland sounding. I liked it a lot. But I prefer the clean tones of the EMG Gilmour and Gill set to the old Livewire Hots.

Lew

 

[scottish]

Re: EMG vs Duncan vs Dimarzio

I also want to add that I've not tried Duncan's newest active Strat pickups but have owned the original Duncan Livewire Hot set. I now have the EMG David Gilmour set in that Strat and prefer them. They're brighter and more transparent when I dial in a clean Strat sound. But I had a lot of fun with that old Livewire Hot set! I liked it a lot. But I prefer the clean tones of the EMG Gilmour and Gill set to the old Livewire Hots.

Lew

Lew

I have tried the livewire IIs for strat. They really rock in the clean, vintage sounding A2 strat pup department. I mean really, really good. Where i didnt particularly like them was when you slap them with some fairly heavy OD. I found the sound got very compressed and felt very 'metal' like to me.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: EMG vs Duncan vs Dimarzio

I have tried the livewire IIs for strat. They really rock in the clean, vintage sounding A2 strat pup department. I mean really, really good. Where i didnt particularly like them was when you slap them with some fairly heavy OD. I found the sound got very compressed and felt very 'metal' like to me.

Yep. But even I have fun sometimes playing with that kind of tone. I never record or play out with that kind of tone, but just for my own enjoyment I do like to putz around with a heavily overdriven metal tone at home once in a while. It's a very corny and adolescent sounding tone, and hard on my ears and they ring like crazy afterwards - but it's fun sometimes.

Lew

 

[blueman335]

Re: EMG vs Duncan vs Dimarzio

Well, now. I'm not sure where you're getting all this emotion and worked-up-ness. I guess it's quite possible that my talking style doesn't translate well when typed out. And I'm also not sure where you're getting that I'm forcing my personal tastes on anyone, much less you. I was forcibly expressing my opinion, though...I'm not trying to single you out and pick a fight. The post you replied to was not directed at you, and this isn't meant only for you either. I hope you can read a little more credibility into my posts and take this as a plea for effective communication. I also apologize for allowing my annoyance to sound so contemptuous. I appreciate people who express their opinions in a way that doesn't demean other people, but I don't always do very well myself.

Fair enough. I don't always express myself in the best way either. Didn't mean to imply that you were forcing your opinions on anyone. Just that you seemed to criticize me for expressing my opinons (which admittedly weren't as in depth as some here), when you were at the same time expressing your opinions. Lets's move on, and leave it at that I have limited experience with EMG's, and don't like them; you have more experience and do like them. Hey, when your posts come across as 'calm' you're a very knowledgeable guy, with a different background & preferences than mine, so I do learn from you. What you have to say is worth listening to; I got distracted on how it was said.

 

[uOpt]

Re: EMG vs Duncan vs Dimarzio

Some good arguments here. In particular that David Gilmour used EMG SAs.

I just have to remind people of one thing: both Gilmour and Blackmore went through phases where they diverted from vintage style Strat pickups, Gilmour to the EMGs, Blackmore to rails that are probably Bardens and later Lace Sensors.

But both Blackmore and Gilmour did that when they had excessive problems with hum from the true single coils. Blackmore had that huge Rainbow light thingy that forced him into humbucking pickups, Gilmour had a monster light setup with Pink Floyd. The light equipment in those days (around 1975-1978 for Blackmore, early 1980ties for Gilmour) was extremely noisy, the FAA would shoot you for it today. Later, when light equipment started following rules again, both went away from the humbucking pickups, although Blackmore stayed on middle ground with the Lace Sensors.

Gilmour also has some amazing stuff done in 1986 (check youtube) with a Charvel 1-humbucker Strat that seems to have a EMG HA (a SA in a humbucker casing). But alas, he went back to real Strat single coils.

 

[Stevo 42]

Re: EMG vs Duncan vs Dimarzio

Legendary bands are usually legendary because all of the members are talented. The Beatles were a great example (with the exception of Ringo Starr, sorry Ringo but that's just how I feel).

Ringo was solid as a metronome and he'll probably out-live everyone else in the band. That's really saying something for a rock drummer.

 

[uOpt]

Re: EMG vs Duncan vs Dimarzio

I forgot one thing about the EMGs:

If you want to see a convinced, voluntary user of EMGs make the best use of the EMG 81, check out Kamelot and their guitarist Thomas Youngblood. That guy got it right. Excellent background for symphonic metal, very articulate and tight, very precise. It's like rhythm surgery.

The band isn't that famous but for guitar work in moderate metal they should be.

 

[blueman335]

Re: EMG vs Duncan vs Dimarzio

Well, what about Jimmy Page's solos? He was part of the yardbirds and led zeppelin, but solo work is much less memorable. What about Angus Young? He's played with AC/DC his entire life, but the guitar parts he wrote certainly did help to carry the song. Even (IMO of course) Eric Clapton's best work was with Cream & John Mayall and the Bluesbreakers.

Since we're waaaay off topic here anyways, so I'll throw in my 2 cents:

To me, the best solos by Page, Angus, Clapton (in the 1960's), Peter Green, Danny Kirwan, Kim Simmonds, and the world's best guitar duo, Steve Hunter & Dick Wagner, are far better than anything I've heard by Gilmour. Admittedly maybe it's their late '60's Brit blues style, which is my favorite. They seem more in control and have better dexerity, and at the same time have a wild, spontaneous element that keeps them fresh. I think Gilmour was excellent at the psychedelic style he played before Floyd got commercial with Dark Side. At that hippie acid style he was better than the above-mentioned players, maybe he has more imagination than them. Another good psychedelic guitarist who I think didn't transition to rock quite as strong either was Glen Buxton. Maybe it's because Buxton & Gilmour don't have a strong Chicago blues influence in their playing and that shows up when they do more traditional rock/blues songs. Gilmour's good at rock, yes and he's made big contributions to music, but to me something's missing that keeps him from being in with the best guitarists (and records sales have nothing to do with guitar skill; look at some of the clumsy work by Keith Richards, Neil Young, and John Foggarty). One guitarist comes to mind as a master at psychedelic, rock, and blues: Jimi. Maybe the most versatile player ever.

 

[alex1fly]

Re: EMG vs Duncan vs Dimarzio

Some of you are thinking way too hard about this :eyecrazy:

 

[CenterStaqeSilver]

Re: EMG vs Duncan vs Dimarzio

I know this is a little off topic but I think that they didn't caught on because SD doesn't market them well (sorry Evan).

Sound samples are hard to get... while Dimarzio/Kinman/Lace offer variation, info and explanations about their vintage noiseless models, it almost looks like the SD team is not really excited about their own product.

I've been checking options for a noiseless set for my Strat since I've bought it. The SD Classic Stacks and Classic Livewires were the first options I've checked. Hardly found any samples, explanations, etc... If I would order today it would probably be the Dimarzio Area 67 pups.

I don't think you're off topic. People are always on the quest for pickup, guitar setup and tone information and for SD to withhold sound samples from their own pickup lines is either flat out idiocy or SD has pickups it should stop making. The Classic Stack Plus has very intriguing specs and design guidelines. But so much time has passed since it was announced, that clearly SD doesn't value it. Something's wrong with it, either in sound, price or market niche.

Any pickup that receives such brutal treatment from its own manufacturer deserves to be left alone, and alternates searched out. I'm enjoying this thread because while I want a clean, dynamic, rich tone to start with, with no noise, I know there are many options. The Livewire Classic sound samples are good selling points for me, but I'm still browsing and want that pickup to provide workable variety, I don't something that is clean and also basically limited in what it can do. The search goes on and at this point, under no circumstances would I purchase a Classic Stack Plus.

 

[Zerberus]

Re: EMG vs Duncan vs Dimarzio

^^ by this reasoning any pickup SD introduced post-2000 is not worth buying. :eek13:

The issue is that to be able to compare sound samples, you need to have the exact same setup all around, guitar, amp, strings, players. That´s the main issue, AFAIK neither the player nior the rig used are available.

I DO however fully agree that it´s overdue for SD to redo the sound samples section to include all the new pickups, esp the Blackouts, CS +, Brobucker, Crazy8 and Dimebucker just to name a few. This would however be quite a chore and I can also understand why they haven´t done it yet

 

[oneblackened]

Re: EMG vs Duncan vs Dimarzio

^^^
Seriously. The samples there now are a bit screwy, anyway.

 

[ACH91332]

Re: EMG vs Duncan vs Dimarzio

I haven't used EMGs but I've used several Duncans and a few Dimarzios

Duncans:
1. Good for low gain
2. Bright
3. Loose
4. Poor Dynamics
5. Buzzy

Dimarzios:
1. Handle light to high gain well
2. Twangier
3. Tighter
4. Awesome dynamics (even the high output PU's clean up well)
5. Very clean and articulate

I've used Duncan A2Ps, PGs, a Jazz, CC, C8, and a PGn5 and to me the A2Ps had too much bass and were loose, the PGs were too harsh and buzzy, the Jazz just was too low of output and had no cut at all, the CC was way too compressed, lifeless and muddy, the C8 added output, clarity, and tightened it up a bit but still wasn't my thing. The PGn I put an A5 in was nice in the neck but was still a tad too dark.

Between all Duncans I've used I'd say they all were spongy and loose, lacked clarity, were too compressed, had no dynamics, were too harsh in the highs for me, and couldn't handle gain too well. Mild breakup it sounded good but so do almost all pickups, part of the looseness was the A2's but still I've played other models too and wasn't too impressed. I was all about Duncans until I finally played some Dimazios.

I've only used a Dimarzio Steve's Special in the bridge and a PAF Joe in the neck. I usually steer away from ceramics because they can sound harsh but I needed a pickup that would stay tight, bright, and had lower mids to match well with my mid heavy Marshall. The SS was tight, bright, and no matter how much gain I put it stays very clear and doesn't have that fuzz sound. It didn't have that ceramic harshness and allowed me to have a tight rhythm tone and a smooth lead tone. No matter how much midrange I threw in my EQ it stayed tight and retained clarity. As for the neck the PAF Joe works awesome for my tastes. It's really bright and single coil like. My only complaint is that it doesn't cut through as much but it's probably because of the SS's output which is probably double the Joe's so I think I might go with a FRED because it's supposedly single coil like but with more bite and growl and of course has more output. One thing I love about the SS and Joe is that they both clean up awesome. On stage I of course use clean channels and OD channels respectively but if I wan't to roll off some gain I can get a light crunch or even a nice punchy clean tone if I'm too far from my footswitch to go to my clean channel. Usually what I like to do is use my push pull pot to split the SS and use the hotter coil and roll off the volume a tad to get a nice lower gain classic rock tone. They're the most versatile pickups I use and I swear by them. When I build my super guitar soon I'm throwing in a SS in the bridge, Virtual Vintange Blues in the middle, and either a PAF Joe or FRED in the neck.

 

[veryhungrycaterpilla]

Re: EMG vs Duncan vs Dimarzio

I kinda like EMG's, I've just never done a back to back with the same pickups in different guitars.

I'm kind of chasing a sound that I can't get out of my head that comes from a Tele with an EMG bridge. The tele has an ash body with flame maple top and maple neck. Just trying to get a feel to see how close I can get with, say, alder or solid ash instead of the ash with the maple top.

Thanks.

I just lurv my DMZ Area Ts. With pup height set correctly, they are very finnicky about that, they go from country to Muddy Waters to Prince to Page to SRV (neck pup) to EVH-sounding (bridge pup and tone turned way back). They tend to fatten up some with more gain. Noise-free. No batteries. They drive effects well. I do think they are my favorite all around pups. YMMV.

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: EMG vs Duncan vs Dimarzio

I don't think you're off topic. People are always on the quest for pickup, guitar setup and tone information and for SD to withhold sound samples from their own pickup lines is either flat out idiocy or SD has pickups it should stop making. The Classic Stack Plus has very intriguing specs and design guidelines. But so much time has passed since it was announced, that clearly SD doesn't value it. Something's wrong with it, either in sound, price or market niche.

Any pickup that receives such brutal treatment from its own manufacturer deserves to be left alone, and alternates searched out. I'm enjoying this thread because while I want a clean, dynamic, rich tone to start with, with no noise, I know there are many options. The Livewire Classic sound samples are good selling points for me, but I'm still browsing and want that pickup to provide workable variety, I don't something that is clean and also basically limited in what it can do. The search goes on and at this point, under no circumstances would I purchase a Classic Stack Plus.

Hmm, well I just wrote the following product copy yesterday, I thought it was a funny coincidence. You might find it interesting:

New Additions to the Stack Plus Family!
Our Classic Stack Plus pickup set represents the ultimate advancement in the quest for hum-free Strat tone. The top coil provides all the tone while the small bottom coil, coupled with our patented flux plate injects negative hum into the circuit. New for Summer NAMM are the STK-S5 Custom Stack Plus and the STK-S7 Vintage Hot Stack Plus.

For those of you who want that Classic Vintage sound but over wound for a little extra punch, the Vintage Hot Stack Plus picks up where the Classic Stack Plus leaves off. Use it in the bridge with Classic Stack Plus neck and middle for a little extra power, or as a fat neck pickup with a Custom Stack Plus in the bridge.

For those of you wanting the powerful tone of our SSL-5 and SSL-6 Custom Strat pickups, the Custom Stack Plus delivers. For years, the Custom has been a staple pickup in power-strat rigs worldwide. As used on Fender’s new Custom Shop David Gilmour Stratocasters, the Custom represents one of Seymour’s most successful creations. The Custom Stack Plus takes that same coil recipe into the Stack Plus configuration for a hum free experience. Use in the bridge position with the Classic Stack Plus and/or Vintage Hot Stack Plus, or as a punched-up neck pickup with a Hot Stack Plus bridge & Classic Stack Plus middle for the ultimate in versatility.

Earlier this year we released the Hot Stack Plus as well. I assure you we're committed to the Stack Plus line, and there is now a complete offering of noise-free Strat tones from Seymour Duncan. My personal favorite is the Vintage Hot in the neck, the Classic middle, and Custom in the bridge. As for sound samples, the original samples were done with such painstaking accuracy, and with a special guitar that requires the pickups to be specially fitted into molded clip mechanisms. Its more than just going into the sound room and recording some riffs. When I get back from NAMM I have to go on another trip, then I'll try to get some samples recorded of all the new stacks.

 

[SlowGroove]

Re: EMG vs Duncan vs Dimarzio

MANY young metal bands in my city use active EMG's.
I am friends with alot of them, although i do not play in a metal band.
What i do not like about the humbucking active EMG's is, (remember, this is how MY ears hear it) that regaurdless of what guitar gets installed w the units, the guitars sound 100% the same.

A 1988 LP Studio, Fender Jim Root sig Tele, and my good buddy's Ibanez S-series sound exactly the same, through the same amp.

Now, the S/C active Emg's, i like !

http://www.emginc.com/products/category/13 - not bad !


my 2cents
James

 

[gunjabeans]

Re: EMG vs Duncan vs Dimarzio

My tone I got with DiMarzios has been possitive. Seymour Duncan Extraordinary. That's why I'm in their forum right now. (They still haven't ever responded to one of my emails.) EMG's tone mediocre. I really heard something artificial and plastic through them. That's from an 85/81 in an Ibanez and an S/S/81 in a strat. (They have responded to several emails.)

That's my two cents,

Robby

 

[Other1152]

Re: EMG vs Duncan vs Dimarzio

I'm kind of chasing a sound that I can't get out of my head that comes from a Tele with an EMG bridge. The tele has an ash body with flame maple top and maple neck. Just trying to get a feel to see how close I can get with, say, alder or solid ash instead of the ash with the maple top.

Thanks.

you might be better off throwing an alternative 8 into an ash body guitar, so you can really hear the wood itself. in my experience an emg will sound the same in pretty much anything you put them in, and if you look at all the famous guys who play them, they all have really good and expensive amp/gear their running through, so to be more consistent and still get a thick signal tone it makes sense to go EMG. i just dont much care for the idea, i love the WOOD-y characteristics that the duncans really accentuate. IMO.