Enjoying the tone befefits of an unfinished guitar

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Re: Enjoying the tone befefits of an unfinished guitar


No. And of all people not to listen to. Lol.

I’ve been building guitars a long time. I’ve played them with no finish, then with nitro, then stripped and oiled, etc.

Nitro isn’t magic. It’s just very easy to rub out. And it’s a form of plastic (celluloid). Poly can be polyurethane or polyester. Polyester is the finish people don’t like. It’s used mostly because it can be formulated to cure with UV light. In some areas like California, you can’t spray solvent based finish. So they use UV cured finish. That’s most of the big names.


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Re: Enjoying the tone befefits of an unfinished guitar

Your theory is contrary to real world observations.
 
Re: Enjoying the tone befefits of an unfinished guitar

Your theory is contrary to real world observations.

No. I’m talking physics. Do the test. Cover your guitar with tape.

People either think they hear a difference, or they changed more than one thing at a time, like finish plus pickups or other hardware. Or they sanded wood off the body and changed the weight.

No one has done a controlled experiment showing that finish makes any difference to the tone. Or else masking tape would also change the tone.


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Re: Enjoying the tone befefits of an unfinished guitar

I remember during rig-rundowns both Satch (about his chromes) and Vai (his fabric florals) commenting that those finishes make a difference tonally.
 
Re: Enjoying the tone befefits of an unfinished guitar

I don't see how sanding an ounce off the body would be responsible for a large tonal shift while adding a new material to it would do nothing. I didn't change anything else on the guitar.
 
Re: Enjoying the tone befefits of an unfinished guitar

could it be, @DavidRavenMoon , that your ears don't notice what Clints ears do?
its quite possible....

for all we know, the size/weight etc of a persons ear affects how they hear.....although i doubt anyone has done a scientifical physics controlled experiment on that....

just sayin :P
 
Re: Enjoying the tone befefits of an unfinished guitar

No. I’m talking physics. Do the test. Cover your guitar with tape.

People either think they hear a difference, or they changed more than one thing at a time, like finish plus pickups or other hardware. Or they sanded wood off the body and changed the weight.

No one has done a controlled experiment showing that finish makes any difference to the tone. Or else masking tape would also change the tone.


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The language of Physics is mathematics...aside from that it seems that you believe a guitar covered with a quarter in of various plastics will sound the same as an unfinished guitar....LOL X 2...
 
Re: Enjoying the tone befefits of an unfinished guitar

could it be, @DavidRavenMoon , that your ears don't notice what Clints ears do?
its quite possible....

for all we know, the size/weight etc of a persons ear affects how they hear.....although i doubt anyone has done a scientifical physics controlled experiment on that....

just sayin :P

Let’s see someone do a double blind test. If guitars sound better without finish, why do they come with finish? You think someone would have figured that out by now.

Ask any luthier what they think.

Meanwhile people think the wood doesn’t effect the tone. Or glue seems. But a thin layer of paint will? lol nope


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Re: Enjoying the tone befefits of an unfinished guitar

The language of Physics is mathematics...aside from that it seems that you believe a guitar covered with a quarter in of various plastics will sound the same as an unfinished guitar....LOL X 2...

Why would it sound different? Give a detailed explanation.

And we use Newtonian physics everyday without math.


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Re: Enjoying the tone befefits of an unfinished guitar

Can we see your web site DRM...like to see your guitars, pickups, testimonies by happy customers, pics of you with big rock stars...
 
Re: Enjoying the tone befefits of an unfinished guitar

Anything will make a difference, that is what physics really says. But finish is usually very thin/low overall mass compared with the mass of the guitar it is usually a small change.....if at all present given the nature of pickups to change acoustic timbre into something else. Its often either inaudible, or can be explained away by hardware being able to be more securely attached to the surface.....something that will more likely make a difference.

Guitars come finished because luthiers know warranty issues would become unmanageable with no finish.....plus finish makes the guitar look better than raw wood too (usually by enhancing what is there).
 
Re: Enjoying the tone befefits of an unfinished guitar

Some good replies here:

http://www.strat-talk.com/threads/can-thick-paint-affect-tone.231868/

“Same is true of the quest for sustain, at some point, isolating any “resonance” from the construct of the guitar which allows the “energy” of the string NOT to be dissipated into the wood to make it resonate, the ONLY way it CAN be made to resonate, results in generally, poorer sonic quality. Ya gotta be balanced...


All that said, why in hell is it that no matter what anyone does to their guitar it always results in an “improvement”? Hum? It doesn't ya know, it cannot, ya know, it can only result in a change... the fact that every time, anyone does anything is touted as THE way to sonic nirvana, seems to suggest that more of a psychological event has occurred as opposed to a physical one... a sonic one.

Wood doesn’t breathe... allowing it to theoretically breathe does not in fact allow it to breathe, it only alters the physical characteristics of the “machine” resulting in a change.

Remember... REMEMBER.... if anything as simple as stripping paint, will universally “IMPROVE sound... ALL.... everyone of the touring pros would be playing necked guitars... and ALL the session musicians, stuck in studios would do so too, simply because no one will see it except for the “crew” and they couldn’t give a shi* what your guitar looks like as long as you can play it...

Prove that’s wrong, and I’ll give the topic up once and for all..”

Pretty much what I said.

Another

“As for the psychoacoustics - if you change something which scientifically can't be proven to make any difference, and yet expect to hear one, guess what? You will. Our brains aren't smart where our biases and expectations are concerned. They do what they're told.

I listened to the posters before and after soundbites, and you have to listen really hard to discern a difference. If that's what it takes to dig it out, it's not worth the effort. If as the poster says the difference is clearer off recording, well, it's still not worth the effort. As Ron suggests, changing the strings for newies is probably the only difference that's occurred.

Also, I played my guitar today and it didn't sound as good as yesterday, even though I felt I was playing better. Damn ears are stoopid.”

And there’s the rub; your guitar won’t sound the same every day. And you won’t remember how it sounded yesterday. You only think you do.

When I’m working on new pickup designs I record them direct with a clean tone. Then when I make a change I record that. Because otherwise I can convince myself that something sounds “better”... but without a recording I’m just trusting my memory.

And a few people in that thread pointed out that just taking the guitar apart and putting it back together can change things. Along with new strings, etc.

It’s all snake oil folks. No one has been able to prove a solid electric guitar sounds better without finish, or with one finish vs another. It’s all a placebo effect.





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Re: Enjoying the tone befefits of an unfinished guitar

Of course finish doesn't have a huge effect like changing the tone-knobs at the amp. Just like woods (softer vs harder) have a definite effect on the timbre, so to can different coatings or lack there-of.
 
Re: Enjoying the tone befefits of an unfinished guitar

Can we see your web site DRM...like to see your guitars, pickups, testimonies by happy customers, pics of you with big rock stars...

Gee I just did this in another thread. But before I do that, let’s see YOUR website. Let’s hear what you do!

Also notice all the great guitar builders put finish on their guitars.

Ok... here’s a big rock star that played a guitar I built.

16b988dbc489c68964c2867fc95e0dd6.jpg


Here’s another one of my guitars

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Here’s some pickups played by Imagine Dragons on the Grammy’s

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Here’s Clammy from Exciter with one of my pickups

83160eb8d62ef6a663406b7845d53a2c.jpg


Bottom line is if unfinished guitars really sounded better everyone would be making unfinished guitars. Right?


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Re: Enjoying the tone befefits of an unfinished guitar

Lots of builders make oiled guitars, but even if they sounded much better it wouldn't negate the priority we humans place on cosmetics, so it's no surprise that paint-schemes still and always will dominate the market.

Analogy;
It's like when you set a compressor to be barely there, so that the tone doesn't change hardly at all, certainly not to a degree a listener could tell if you're on or off the comp,,,,,,,,,,,,,but as the player we can easily tell because the "feel"(pick-response/sensitivity) changes.
 
Re: Enjoying the tone befefits of an unfinished guitar

Gee I just did this in another thread. But before I do that, let’s see YOUR website. Let’s hear what you do!
I don't need a web site....do whatever I want to do or what my wife tells me to do...golf, bridge, consulting if it interests me, build amps when I feel like it....some of my amps and reviews: https://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=ollol5423.wmfiqlv&ftab=FeedbackAsSeller&searchInterval=30
 
Re: Enjoying the tone befefits of an unfinished guitar

If you live in an arid climate your probably okay. But oiled necks sound a feel good too. Can't hurt to oil them at least in my opinion.
 
Re: Enjoying the tone befefits of an unfinished guitar

i have an acoustic, a Tanglewood TW45-OPE........the OP stands for 'open pore'. Basically, they use a very very minimal finish, don't pore-fill etc, (feels like raw wood really) to 'enhance' the tone - warmer, more 'open'. it would have a different tone if i put a heavier finish on it.....(ok, this is an acoustic so will be different, but it makes the point...)
 
Re: Enjoying the tone befefits of an unfinished guitar

IMO a painted finish has to contribute to removing the guitar's ability voice to its peak. I removed a black paint finish from a strat body and there were pounds of paint, primer, and filler. A guitar that sings when you play it can be felt in the hands and against you body. A guitar that has wood that perhaps was rushed into production and not properly dried or has to many built up layers of finish and body work is dead sounding. It may still sound decent, but if you've played or have some good ones then you know the difference when you hear and feel it.
 
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Re: Enjoying the tone befefits of an unfinished guitar

Some posts here indicate that resonance represents the body sucking tone from the string. I'll grant that but offer this: If the body is resonating, that should mean that no other components ahead of it already absorbed the string's energy; so I don't think a resonant body represents a negative but perhaps an inevitability, provided you don't have a tone-sucking bridge or nut.

An example might be loose/gappy saddles in something like a poorly made repro Mustang bridge; the resonance will stop with vibration of the saddles. Upgrade to (in the extreme) a G&L saddle lock- now you have more body resonance and sustain.
 
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