epiphone probuckers...need some A5

[gimmieinfo]

New Epi 50s standard, epiphone probuckers with A2 bars. I like them except that the low strings are not as crisp and percussive as i always find with A5, my least fav alnico. So gonna throw some A5 in em. But b4 i buy can i get some advice as t where to buy good quality A5 bars? I'm sure theres a lot of garbage out there and i don't know how tweed tat out and pick decent quality ones.

 

[Seashore]

I get my magnets at Philadelphia Luthier.

 

[ehdwuld]

I buy mine on Amazon
they sometimes come de magnetized
But the size shape and materials are the same
Bangood

Then also why change the magnet on a pickup you dont own
On the assumption that you wont like them

Buy another pickup with the magnets you like

Why make it hard on yourself

 

[gimmieinfo]

I buy mine on Amazon
they sometimes come de magnetized
But the size shape and materials are the same
Bangood

Then also why change the magnet on a pickup you dont own
On the assumption that you wont like them

Buy another pickup with the magnets you like

Why make it hard on yourself

Huh? Where did i say i don't own it?!

 

[ehdwuld]

I read "b4 I buy...." as not owning them

I may have been mistaken
could have been not owning the magnets
My bad

In either case

I have a5 JB/JAZZ sets in everything i own
But i also have the A2 Probuckers in my Epiphone Florentine and have no desire to remove them

Do they sound like the JB/JAZZ set? Nope
Do they sound great in that Epiphone? Yep

have you tried them i your guitar yet?

You can swap magnets, often without taking the strings off

I think you should try them out first
Rather than judging them on your past experience with other a2 magnets
The pickup itself my surprise you

 

[gimmieinfo]

have you tried them i your guitar yet?

Of course, they're the stock pickups in the epiphone i just bought. I think you need to reread my whole post a little more slowly.

 

[freefrog]

If it's a model with pickups covers, they might be a contributing factor of what annoys you. I'd personally consider the idea to pull off the covers / dewax the coils or to mount better covers beside swapping the magnets.

Also, I don't know which alloys are currently used by Epiphone for their stop bars and bridges but IME, such parts can also have a dulling effect, FWIW.

Now, do what you want and be happy.

 

[marcello252]

New Epi 50s standard, epiphone probuckers with A2 bars. I like them except that the low strings are not as crisp and percussive as i always find with A5, my least fav alnico. So gonna throw some A5 in em. But b4 i buy can i get some advice as t where to buy good quality A5 bars? I'm sure theres a lot of garbage out there and i don't know how tweed tat out and pick decent quality ones.

I don't want to add much entropy but are you sure you want an A5? if you like the HB except the bass, with an A5 you could lose part of the mid content, could an A4 or an UOA5 be more similar to what you are looking for?

 

[gimmieinfo]

If it's a model with pickups covers, they might be a contributing factor of what annoys you. I'd personally consider the idea to pull off the covers / dewax the coils or to mount better covers beside swapping the magnets.

Also, I don't know which alloys are currently used by Epiphone for their stop bars and bridges but IME, such parts can also have a dulling effect, FWIW.

Now, do what you want and be happy.

I'm quite sure the bridge or tail isn't to blame,but the covers may well be. And while i am usually not someone who will hesitate to pick tone over looks, the covers on a LP standard to me just looks great i would hate to lose them. Any suggestions on how to determine if the cover are a material that affects tone and then what to look for that won't? I've always been much more of a fender guy so i'm not nearly as experienced with gibsons designs. I HAVE done some things especially bridge/tail swaps, but i'm now versed in HB covers. But i have messed a ot with tele neck covers and do understand that they can definitely cause muddiness.

 

[gimmieinfo]

I don't want to add much entropy but are you sure you want an A5? if you like the HB except the bass, with an A5 you could lose part of the mid content, could an A4 or an UOA5 be more similar to what you are looking for?

I thought f that but i can add ids at the amp which wont be exactly the same thing, but i need to rid that mud in the lows because it trumps all other tonal concerns. I do have some magnets but they are not labeled so not sure which are A5 but i think there are sandcasts i have that are A5. So i may try those and try it w/o cover, then if thats not a total fix try the A5.

 

[freefrog]

Any suggestions on how to determine if the cover are a material that affects tone and then what to look for that won't?

It's relatively easy to see how much a cover affects tone when inducing electrically the resonant peak of a pickup... but it requires lab gear.

TBH, choosing a cover can be tricky. One would have to sand 'em to know how they're made exactly so we are forced to trust what makers and sellers say about their products... without always telling the truth (at least IME).

That said and without surprise, there's most often a direct relationship between price/reputation and quality : brands like Duncan or Gibson wouldn't take the risk to offer "discussible" covers, on their products or separately... With Epiphone, things are less "clear" for reasons that I won't discuss here but with relatively obvious effects for those who analyse guitar gear.

See for instance the part named "comparison of covers" in this topic about Gibson Classic 57 vs Epi Probucker-2:

https://www.strat-talk.com/threads/...sic-versus-a-stock-epiphone-humbucker.402460/

Just keep in mind that this comparison was done by someone whose obsession is to prove that things make "no difference" in guitar pickups. His conclusions and mine are really not identical in this case (even if based on similar experiments).

Anyway and to end on a constructive advice, standard Gibson covers should be "transparent enough" IME/IMHO. YMMV.

HTH.

 

[Inflames626]

Not to be off topic, but doesn't the baseplate material affect tone as well? I thought the bronze colored baseplates on cheaper, 2 conductor import pickups don't shield as well from noise as the typical nickel/silver baseplates you see on aftermarket pickups?

I seem to remember Dylan stating this in his video after disassembling a pickup, but it's been a while since I have watched it.

https://youtu.be/67jsreT2Sc8?t=436

 

[freefrog]

Not to be off topic, but doesn't the baseplate material affect tone as well? I thought the bronze colored baseplates on cheaper, 2 conductor import pickups don't shield as well from noise as the typical nickel/silver baseplates you see on aftermarket pickups?

I seem to remember Dylan stating this in his video after disassembling a pickup, but it's been a while since I have watched it.

https://youtu.be/67jsreT2Sc8?t=436

I can't reply for the author of this thread but personally, I don't think it's off topic : it all comes down to eddy currents (as evoked in the last topic by Rex-Rocker). And thx for the link regarding Dylan!

 

[gimmieinfo]

Oh man, this is really strange. Began working on it this morning and i found out what the issue is but i am left with my jaw on the floor. First take note of this fact before you try and figure out whats going on.......this muddy ow end issue has been happening since new before i did any mods. REMEMBER THAT or any replies you make will be faulty if you intend to try and figure out why this is happening. Before i tell you what is causing the muddy lows, let me describe what i did this morning. I remove the bridge pickup, removed the cover, then replaced it. No change. Issue remains so it's not the cover. Then i removed it again and replaced the magnet with a sandcast A5. Issues remains and now i know i actually prefer the A2 surprisingly !

Now heres the big surprise......the issue is pickup bleed. let me explain. I was taking the bridge pickup in with temporary solders that were not at all reliable but just to test. So the joints were shaky and we i went to try the bridge pu at one point it was very weak sounding like the volume was on 1 or 2. When i looked i saw one of the solder connections had come off. So i removed the bridge wiring completely and still had that weak sound. And yes, the selector was in the bridge position. So the neck pickup was bleeding thru somehow. Now remember i said to take note that it did this when new? I said that because at one point i rewired the guitar so it has one volume for both pickups because i much prefer a fender style setup. And i told you to take note so you wouldn't blame my wiring for the bleed thru since it also had the muddy lows when new with stock wiring.

Also take note just so you don't attribute this to inexperience, i've been playing 53 years and did my first mod, routing out a LP deluxe for full side dimarzio super D's (only after market pickup available at the time) in about 77'. Since then the amount of mods and wring i've done is mind boggling plus i worked as a electronics tech for 20 years now retired. Now that doesn't mea i can't have made a mistake, but i am just trying to avoid a lot of replies from those who assume i'm some teen who's modding amounts to replacing a pickup one time.

Tats said, i cannot for the life of me figure this out. granted, i have not yet delved into it but i cannot see anything that makes any sense unless it's at the switch. But even then, anything at the switch that would allow the neck pickup to bleed thru when the switch is set to bridge could only be a dead short which would allow the neck to bleed thru like it's on 10. But with the volume on 10 the neck is barely on. So i now have to try and figure this out but it makes no sense at all. It absolutely MUST be me spacing somehow, and at my age thats certainly not impossible.

 

[freefrog]

Tats said, i cannot for the life of me figure this out. granted, i have not yet delved into it but i cannot see anything that makes any sense unless it's at the switch. But even then, anything at the switch that would allow the neck pickup to bleed thru when the switch is set to bridge could only be a dead short which would allow the neck to bleed thru like it's on 10. But with the volume on 10 the neck is barely on. So i now have to try and figure this out but it makes no sense at all. It absolutely MUST be me spacing somehow, and at my age thats certainly not impossible.

It' not you since my frequency analyzer can detect the same kind of things under defined conditions...

It might be some short in the switch... and/or the effect of some capacitive coupling.

In guitars like LP's and Explorer's, there's multiple lenghts of cable going from pickups to pots, then from pots to switch, then from switch to output jack plug.

These wires are packed together if not pressed on each others. So they can communicate capacitively.

Related topic in which I've recently posted and testified, with complementary thoughts : https://www.mylespaul.com/threads/i...position-and-vice-versa.479243/#post-10526284

If it's the case in your guitar, it would/shoud be possible to solve the issue by relocating the switch next to the pots and jack plug, without all the added wires.

FWIW.

 

[gimmieinfo]

I believe i figured it out. The way epiphone wires them using multiple wires in one jacket where both pickup conductors reside together was apparently causing crosstalk and probably capacitance issues. I rewired it so each pickups conductors are shielded in their own jacket. Issue is gone ! I still however feel these pickups aren't exactly what i want but that may change as i get used to this now brighter tone. tweak the amp, etc. Gotta wonder how many epiphone reviews that find the tone lesser then a gibson is due to this !

 

[gimmieinfo]

HAAA! U posted right when i did and you indeed nailed it. Thats exactly what i found. I wish u had posted it before i went to all the trouble of pulling the covers and also trying A5 !

 

[freefrog]

I wish u had posted it before i went to all the trouble of pulling the covers and also trying A5 !

Well, I always do my best to post helpful info but I've still not divine omniscience at disposal...

And the idea to try other covers was precisely meant to avoid a change of magnets at first. ;-)

Also, if you've changed a bad cover for another bad one, it doesn't make any difference without proving that Epi covers are not a problem. Only a lab test would tell the truth, here.

Hope you'll enjoy with your guitar as it is now, anyway.

 

[gimmieinfo]

Well, I always do my best to post helpful info but I've still not divine omniscience at disposal...

And the idea to try other covers was precisely meant to avoid a change of magnets at first. ;-)

Also, if you've changed a bad cover for another bad one, it doesn't make any difference without proving that Epi covers are not a problem. Only a lab test would tell the truth, here.

Hope you'll enjoy with your guitar as it is now, anyway.

No, i meant i wish u had posted the thought about capacitance. I only figured it out because it was the only possiblity left that could cause the neck pickup to be making sound when it was not even selected. The cover and magnets were already possibilities in my mind from the beginning, but the magnet is what i focused on because i've always felt A2 on fender style pickups muddy the lows, and i assumed the same would be true of a gibson design. And trying a A5 i had to remove the cover anyways so i figured i'd do that and if no joy, then look a covers. I also just added spin-a-split to both and wired the guitar like fender, IE: one volume.The pus now go straight to the switch the the common to one pot. I have one pot left over fr tone bet i never se tones so i left that unhooked. Then i raised the tail up to lessen the break angle and that alone was a huge improvement. Seemed to balance the tone better but whatever it did its hard to put a finger on. Plus it plays easier now and the way the pick bounces off the string is much better. l in all it's gone form a guitar i could take or leave it, and in fact at one point had a return authorization. to what i would call close to perfection. And the splits make it a lot more versitile. It may be able to compete with my P90 special which to date has been my favorite guitar ever. Took a few days and a lot of work to figure out how to get it to play and sound like i wished but man did it ever turn out great. Hard to put down now.

 

[marcello252]

A2 is the magnet I prefer for neck, it cuts off the right amount of bass still being warm