ES 345 Varitone
- Thread starter FBloke
- Start date
Re: ES 345 Varitone
I had a '68 345, beautiful cherry red. I loved that guitar. Several years later I decided to quit music and sold all my gear...sold that 345 for $300! Man I could kick myself today. Sure wish I still had it.
I never had a volume concern with the varitone in mine. Can't help you but I hope you get that ax usable soon.
I had a '68 345, beautiful cherry red. I loved that guitar. Several years later I decided to quit music and sold all my gear...sold that 345 for $300! Man I could kick myself today. Sure wish I still had it.
I never had a volume concern with the varitone in mine. Can't help you but I hope you get that ax usable soon.
F
Funkfingers
Guest
Re: ES 345 Varitone
The Varitone switch is selecting between various passive filiter networks. These remove progressively more of the signal generated by the pickups. By definition, passive tone cutting will reduce the overall signal level. This is an intentional part of the design. <shrug>
The Varitone switch is selecting between various passive filiter networks. These remove progressively more of the signal generated by the pickups. By definition, passive tone cutting will reduce the overall signal level. This is an intentional part of the design. <shrug>
wolf
New member
Re: ES 345 Varitone
Another problem with the Varitone is that Gibson put resistors in that circuit to prevent "pops" when switching but it also contributes to even further reduction in volume.
http://www.provide.net/~cfh/varitone.gif
Another problem with the Varitone is that Gibson put resistors in that circuit to prevent "pops" when switching but it also contributes to even further reduction in volume.
http://www.provide.net/~cfh/varitone.gif
Boogie Bill
New member
Re: ES 345 Varitone
Hey, if Elvin Bishop and Freddie King and BB can make them work--you can too!
I think BB King found his tone n position 1 or 2, and that's where it stays.
They are gorgeous guitars without a doubt. Many folks remove the Varitone.
You might try using a clean boost pedal at the beginning of your pedal chain to compensate for using the low output positions of the Varitone.
Enjoy the process and the journey. You will get there!
Good luck!
Bill
Hey, if Elvin Bishop and Freddie King and BB can make them work--you can too!
I think BB King found his tone n position 1 or 2, and that's where it stays.
They are gorgeous guitars without a doubt. Many folks remove the Varitone.
You might try using a clean boost pedal at the beginning of your pedal chain to compensate for using the low output positions of the Varitone.
Enjoy the process and the journey. You will get there!
Good luck!
Bill
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: ES 345 Varitone
I've owned at least two Gibsons with the varitone circuit - a 345 which I hated the varitone in and sold and a 355 I removed the whole circuit from and made it like a 335. I'd learned how torepair guitar electronics by the time I got the 355. Much better tone without the varitone, IMO. With the varitone the pickups are out of phase and very thin and nasal sounding when combined. I forget what I had to do to get the pickups in phase again - I might have reversed the magnet in the neck pickup? I thinkso.
The varitone circuit does work for BB King and he's one of my very, very favorite guitarists but that tone sounds to thin, pinched and nasal for me.
I've owned at least two Gibsons with the varitone circuit - a 345 which I hated the varitone in and sold and a 355 I removed the whole circuit from and made it like a 335. I'd learned how torepair guitar electronics by the time I got the 355. Much better tone without the varitone, IMO. With the varitone the pickups are out of phase and very thin and nasal sounding when combined. I forget what I had to do to get the pickups in phase again - I might have reversed the magnet in the neck pickup? I thinkso.
The varitone circuit does work for BB King and he's one of my very, very favorite guitarists but that tone sounds to thin, pinched and nasal for me.
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: ES 345 Varitone
+1. It was one of Gibson's missteps from the 1950's that's still being made for 'historical' reasons, like HHH combo. In both cases, look at who's copied Gibson/Epiphone on this...just about no one. Both ideas didn't catch on.
In the 1950's, Gibson was coming out with cutting edge developments in electric guitar on a regular basis. You can't expect that every one of them was going to stand the test of time. Today, it's a bizarre business decision to manufacture obsolete varitones & middle HB's (which are weak sellers, and then are rarely used by most of those who do have them on their guitars) instead of offering better, proven ways of getting more usable tones, like HSH & HSS.
So if you have a varitone, you may or may not use it; I know some guys that just cut a wire & disable it. Maybe you'll like yours, if not don't sweat it. It's a beautiful guitar regardless.
+1. It was one of Gibson's missteps from the 1950's that's still being made for 'historical' reasons, like HHH combo. In both cases, look at who's copied Gibson/Epiphone on this...just about no one. Both ideas didn't catch on.
In the 1950's, Gibson was coming out with cutting edge developments in electric guitar on a regular basis. You can't expect that every one of them was going to stand the test of time. Today, it's a bizarre business decision to manufacture obsolete varitones & middle HB's (which are weak sellers, and then are rarely used by most of those who do have them on their guitars) instead of offering better, proven ways of getting more usable tones, like HSH & HSS.
So if you have a varitone, you may or may not use it; I know some guys that just cut a wire & disable it. Maybe you'll like yours, if not don't sweat it. It's a beautiful guitar regardless.
Last edited:
DoronEsh
New member
Re: ES 345 Varitone
I only experience significant volume reduction in the last 2 positions of my BluesHawk's Varitone. These are supposedly the single-coil fender-sounding positions, so a volume drop is expectable. The others are almost the same volume. Anyway, 1st position is Varitone-off, so you don't have to cut any wires for it to be bypassed. Just leave it at no. 1. and have fun ... your guitar should sound excellent as is.
DoDo
I only experience significant volume reduction in the last 2 positions of my BluesHawk's Varitone. These are supposedly the single-coil fender-sounding positions, so a volume drop is expectable. The others are almost the same volume. Anyway, 1st position is Varitone-off, so you don't have to cut any wires for it to be bypassed. Just leave it at no. 1. and have fun ... your guitar should sound excellent as is.
DoDo
F
Funkfingers
Guest
Re: ES 345 Varitone
The rotary switch on the Blueshawk is selecting pickup coil combinations NOT passive tone filtering networks. It is performing a different function to the similar-looking switch on the ES-345.
Merely having a switch in circuit (even in a "bypass" mode) will have some small loading effect on the pickup(s).
The rotary switch on the Blueshawk is selecting pickup coil combinations NOT passive tone filtering networks. It is performing a different function to the similar-looking switch on the ES-345.
Merely having a switch in circuit (even in a "bypass" mode) will have some small loading effect on the pickup(s).
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: ES 345 Varitone
I don't know about your guitar, but on my guitars with the Varitone it still loaded down the pickups some and choked the tone in position 1. If your Varitone was removed from your guitar or disabled I suspect you'd hear a difference for the better compared to position 1 with the varitone enabled.
MY 355 didn't sound like a 335 until I removed the circuit altogether.
Lew
I don't know about your guitar, but on my guitars with the Varitone it still loaded down the pickups some and choked the tone in position 1. If your Varitone was removed from your guitar or disabled I suspect you'd hear a difference for the better compared to position 1 with the varitone enabled.
MY 355 didn't sound like a 335 until I removed the circuit altogether.
Lew
Last edited:
FBloke
New member
Re: ES 345 Varitone
Great replies gents, many thanks. I tend to agree that it's a flawed design but overall a beautiful guitar. A volume pedal may solve the problem, but who wants to bother with a volume pedal? I may just cut the wire and revert it back to a good-looking 335 with nice parrellogram inlays. The tone in position 1 is great, the 57 Classics do a fine job.
Lew - how are you doing?
Mike.
Great replies gents, many thanks. I tend to agree that it's a flawed design but overall a beautiful guitar. A volume pedal may solve the problem, but who wants to bother with a volume pedal? I may just cut the wire and revert it back to a good-looking 335 with nice parrellogram inlays. The tone in position 1 is great, the 57 Classics do a fine job.
Lew - how are you doing?
Mike.
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: ES 345 Varitone
Because the Varitone cuts specific frequencies there will be some volume drop however if it bugs you just put it in position 1 and leave it...thats bypass...I see no need to rip it out!
FWIW, I'd actually prefer a 345 over the 345 to have the varitone!
Because the Varitone cuts specific frequencies there will be some volume drop however if it bugs you just put it in position 1 and leave it...thats bypass...I see no need to rip it out!
FWIW, I'd actually prefer a 345 over the 345 to have the varitone!
wolf
New member
Re: ES 345 Varitone
Here is the graphic at the link I previously posted:
Just for easier viewing, I completely removed the Stereo Varitone graphic and cropped the monaural graphic and just left the Varitone circuit.
It seems to me that even when the switch is in the #1 "off" position, the Varitone is still "loading" the signal because the "hot" connection goes through the 10 "Meg" resistors, through the capacitors, through the inductor and out to ground.
Granted those are 10 Meg resistors so it isn't going to be totally influenced but some degradation must occur.
Also notice that when the switch is in any of the "working" positions, the signal first goes through a 100 K resistor. This is probably used to diminish switch "pops" but this no doubt also contributes to some volume loss.
Here is the graphic at the link I previously posted:
Just for easier viewing, I completely removed the Stereo Varitone graphic and cropped the monaural graphic and just left the Varitone circuit.
It seems to me that even when the switch is in the #1 "off" position, the Varitone is still "loading" the signal because the "hot" connection goes through the 10 "Meg" resistors, through the capacitors, through the inductor and out to ground.
Granted those are 10 Meg resistors so it isn't going to be totally influenced but some degradation must occur.
Also notice that when the switch is in any of the "working" positions, the signal first goes through a 100 K resistor. This is probably used to diminish switch "pops" but this no doubt also contributes to some volume loss.
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: ES 345 Varitone
Much, much better. I feel 10 years younger. The chemotherapy makes me sick as a dog for several days a month but we're kicking this cancer's butt!
Thanks for asking!
Much, much better. I feel 10 years younger. The chemotherapy makes me sick as a dog for several days a month but we're kicking this cancer's butt!
Thanks for asking!
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: ES 345 Varitone
There ya go! Many thanks. This confirms what my ears have told me for the last 35 or 40 years.
Here is the graphic at the link I previously posted:
Just for easier viewing, I completely removed the Stereo Varitone graphic and cropped the monaural graphic and just left the Varitone circuit.
It seems to me that even when the switch is in the #1 "off" position, the Varitone is still "loading" the signal because the "hot" connection goes through the 10 "Meg" resistors, through the capacitors, through the inductor and out to ground.
Granted those are 10 Meg resistors so it isn't going to be totally influenced but some degradation must occur.
Also notice that when the switch is in any of the "working" positions, the signal first goes through a 100 K resistor. This is probably used to diminish switch "pops" but this no doubt also contributes to some volume loss.
There ya go! Many thanks. This confirms what my ears have told me for the last 35 or 40 years.
FBloke
New member
Re: ES 345 Varitone
Fantastic! I'm really pleased you're making good progress. You sound really positive.
Wolf - many thanks for the schematic and explanation, I may now seriously considering getting it un-wired / bypassed. That said, it still sounds great in position 1 and I'm very lazy, so immediately doing nothing may be the best course of action.
Much, much better. I feel 10 years younger. The chemotherapy makes me sick as a dog for several days a month but we're kicking this cancer's butt!
Fantastic! I'm really pleased you're making good progress. You sound really positive.
Wolf - many thanks for the schematic and explanation, I may now seriously considering getting it un-wired / bypassed. That said, it still sounds great in position 1 and I'm very lazy, so immediately doing nothing may be the best course of action.
Pontiac Jack
New member
Re: ES 345 Varitone
I had to completely rewire a stereo Vari-tone equipped 355 a few years back.
I still have nightmares!!:scared:
Whatever you do DON'T remove the circuit. It's easier to bypass it if you don't like it.
Cheers,PJ
I had to completely rewire a stereo Vari-tone equipped 355 a few years back.
I still have nightmares!!:scared:
Whatever you do DON'T remove the circuit. It's easier to bypass it if you don't like it.
Cheers,PJ
DoronEsh
New member
Re: ES 345 Varitone
I guess the BluesHawk's Varitone is different. As you can see in the following charts, taken from www.blueshawk.info, there's almost no drop in the frequency response outside of the notched area.
Whatever ...
DoDo
Here is the graphic at the link I previously posted:
Just for easier viewing, I completely removed the Stereo Varitone graphic and cropped the monaural graphic and just left the Varitone circuit.
It seems to me that even when the switch is in the #1 "off" position, the Varitone is still "loading" the signal because the "hot" connection goes through the 10 "Meg" resistors, through the capacitors, through the inductor and out to ground.
Granted those are 10 Meg resistors so it isn't going to be totally influenced but some degradation must occur.
Also notice that when the switch is in any of the "working" positions, the signal first goes through a 100 K resistor. This is probably used to diminish switch "pops" but this no doubt also contributes to some volume loss.
I guess the BluesHawk's Varitone is different. As you can see in the following charts, taken from www.blueshawk.info, there's almost no drop in the frequency response outside of the notched area.
Whatever ...
DoDo
