ESP Vintage Plus Strats
- Thread starter edsmith
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Johtosotku
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Re: ESP Vintage Plus Strats
I tested one a year ago with great expectations. I tried out a few Fenders, a real high-end Tokai and the ESP. The Tokai and the ESP were no match for the Fenders. I expected it to be the opposite. I walked home a very happy man with a 50th Anniversary US Stratocaster. YMMV. I really wanted to like the ESP as I own an M-II that I like but it just wasn't up to my standards, far from it. Too bad they didn't have any more of them to try. Not that I'm complaining, the Strat I picked has been all I've hoped and more.
I tested one a year ago with great expectations. I tried out a few Fenders, a real high-end Tokai and the ESP. The Tokai and the ESP were no match for the Fenders. I expected it to be the opposite. I walked home a very happy man with a 50th Anniversary US Stratocaster. YMMV. I really wanted to like the ESP as I own an M-II that I like but it just wasn't up to my standards, far from it. Too bad they didn't have any more of them to try. Not that I'm complaining, the Strat I picked has been all I've hoped and more.
edsmith
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Johtosotku
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Re: ESP Vintage Plus Strats
I'll try to remember... I think that it was the overall tone that was disappointing. The specs are great and I have good experiences with ESP so I thought that it was the one I was going home with. I think that it played pretty well and had solid hardware but somehow it just wasn't that resonant as the fenders.
I'll try to remember... I think that it was the overall tone that was disappointing. The specs are great and I have good experiences with ESP so I thought that it was the one I was going home with. I think that it played pretty well and had solid hardware but somehow it just wasn't that resonant as the fenders.
edsmith
New member
Re: ESP Vintage Plus Strats
They come with those SSL1 pickups so could that be the problem?
They come with those SSL1 pickups so could that be the problem?
uOpt
Something Cool
Re: ESP Vintage Plus Strats
I'm firm in the camp of U.S. made instruments have good unamplified qualities much more often than Asian instruments, so this doesn't surprise me at all.
Hard to believe the SSL-1s screwing up a guitar unless it's made of maple or 500 Kohm potis were used.
Now, while I was blaming wood quality for what I observe in the past, these days I think that at least partially this is the fault of hardware (namely harmonics eating bridges) and manufacturing details, such as excessive gluing or painting. You can see in Asian made pickups that they are epoxied to death, because somebody followed the "no feedback" instructions and nobody checked sound in 1:1 situations.
If I needed to buy a guitar without playing it the Asian guitar would have to be much cheaper for the same on-paper specs.
I'm firm in the camp of U.S. made instruments have good unamplified qualities much more often than Asian instruments, so this doesn't surprise me at all.
Hard to believe the SSL-1s screwing up a guitar unless it's made of maple or 500 Kohm potis were used.
Now, while I was blaming wood quality for what I observe in the past, these days I think that at least partially this is the fault of hardware (namely harmonics eating bridges) and manufacturing details, such as excessive gluing or painting. You can see in Asian made pickups that they are epoxied to death, because somebody followed the "no feedback" instructions and nobody checked sound in 1:1 situations.
If I needed to buy a guitar without playing it the Asian guitar would have to be much cheaper for the same on-paper specs.
Vasshu the humanoid typhoon
Unseen
Re: ESP Vintage Plus Strats
Aha......since when?
Holy Diver
New member
Re: ESP Vintage Plus Strats
There are some great Asian made guitars, but it does seem that USA made ones are better quality, unamplified or not.
Vasshu the humanoid typhoon
Unseen
Re: ESP Vintage Plus Strats
Again..since friggin when???
Again..since friggin when???
Johtosotku
New member
Re: ESP Vintage Plus Strats
No, I never plugged it in. But, regarding pickups, the difference between the new SCN Fender pickups and the real alnico Fender pickups is night and day. I wouldn't use the SCN ones even as paperweight.
The ESP was probably just a dud. I think that it was most likely a wood problem, and it was probably just the monday edition of an otherwise great guitar line. I have no doubts that ESP Japan generally puts out great quality. But all companies make a bad guitar every now and then.
No, I never plugged it in. But, regarding pickups, the difference between the new SCN Fender pickups and the real alnico Fender pickups is night and day. I wouldn't use the SCN ones even as paperweight.
The ESP was probably just a dud. I think that it was most likely a wood problem, and it was probably just the monday edition of an otherwise great guitar line. I have no doubts that ESP Japan generally puts out great quality. But all companies make a bad guitar every now and then.
Johtosotku
New member
Re: ESP Vintage Plus Strats
And now regarding the Made in Asia vs. Made in US... Wood is wood. Hardware is hardware. Competent craftsmanship is, you guessed it, competent craftsmanship. There's no reason in this time and age that a company anywhere in the World can't acquire those three things if they have the money for it. And regarding the fourth ingredient in making good guitars... there's no magical fairy dust that's only available to the US companies to sprinkle over their guitars to make them intrinsically better than guitars made elsewhere.
And now regarding the Made in Asia vs. Made in US... Wood is wood. Hardware is hardware. Competent craftsmanship is, you guessed it, competent craftsmanship. There's no reason in this time and age that a company anywhere in the World can't acquire those three things if they have the money for it. And regarding the fourth ingredient in making good guitars... there's no magical fairy dust that's only available to the US companies to sprinkle over their guitars to make them intrinsically better than guitars made elsewhere.
uOpt
Something Cool
Re: ESP Vintage Plus Strats
Not sure what that does have to do with it, but 1983 to be very specific. I spent a major part of the 80ties playing guitars in shops.
I don't say all Asian guitars suck sound-wise. My favorite guitar is still a 1983 Ibanez Blazer (with an Ash body that probably rivals anything Vintage Fender). All I say the probability to pick up a piece that sounds round and solid is higher with U.S. made guitar from my observation.
I have also been deeply disappointed by some of the supposedly "magic" Japanese instruments when I re-check on them around 1996-1998. Ibanez Artist, Ibanez Musician, Tokai Les Paul, a 70ties Ibanez aw suit Les Paul - all dead as dorrnails, except the Musician which sounded like you would expect from a Steinberger.
Having said all that, for almost all players minor difference in sound don't matter, they just make the guitar needlessly expensive. Playability, general sympathy (aka you have to like the axe to pick it up and practice) and robustness are plain and simply more important. And workmanship is certainly better even in China.
Not sure what that does have to do with it, but 1983 to be very specific. I spent a major part of the 80ties playing guitars in shops.
I don't say all Asian guitars suck sound-wise. My favorite guitar is still a 1983 Ibanez Blazer (with an Ash body that probably rivals anything Vintage Fender). All I say the probability to pick up a piece that sounds round and solid is higher with U.S. made guitar from my observation.
I have also been deeply disappointed by some of the supposedly "magic" Japanese instruments when I re-check on them around 1996-1998. Ibanez Artist, Ibanez Musician, Tokai Les Paul, a 70ties Ibanez aw suit Les Paul - all dead as dorrnails, except the Musician which sounded like you would expect from a Steinberger.
Having said all that, for almost all players minor difference in sound don't matter, they just make the guitar needlessly expensive. Playability, general sympathy (aka you have to like the axe to pick it up and practice) and robustness are plain and simply more important. And workmanship is certainly better even in China.
uOpt
Something Cool
Re: ESP Vintage Plus Strats
If you are the head of an Asian guitar maker, how to you justify doubling your yearly wood bill to your shareholders when most of your customers either don't care that much about sound, buy mailorder or expect Asian instruments to have lesser wood to start from?
The world's guitarists are not very equal-opportunity buyers. U.S., Japan, Mexico, Korea, China - in that order they expect the "hidden" properties such as tone wood to be. Without a major marketing campaign you cannot just slam in more expensive wood and expect people to notice or believe it.
Plus a Protones Tune-O-Matic costs real money, a significant portion of the price of an Asian instrument.
If you are the head of an Asian guitar maker, how to you justify doubling your yearly wood bill to your shareholders when most of your customers either don't care that much about sound, buy mailorder or expect Asian instruments to have lesser wood to start from?
The world's guitarists are not very equal-opportunity buyers. U.S., Japan, Mexico, Korea, China - in that order they expect the "hidden" properties such as tone wood to be. Without a major marketing campaign you cannot just slam in more expensive wood and expect people to notice or believe it.
Plus a Protones Tune-O-Matic costs real money, a significant portion of the price of an Asian instrument.
Vasshu the humanoid typhoon
Unseen
Re: ESP Vintage Plus Strats
Well I have also had a very fair share of guitars......I think the probaility to pick up an US dud is somewhat bigger...as the quality of most guitars from the70s throughout today is quite uneven.
Most of mine ended being Japanese guitars, since they usually just worked from day one....and did not need alot of work to become playable for normal work!
Most I encountered where better off growing on as trees....
But that is how it goes....there is no magic anywhere....only bad or good work!
Well I have also had a very fair share of guitars......I think the probaility to pick up an US dud is somewhat bigger...as the quality of most guitars from the70s throughout today is quite uneven.
Most of mine ended being Japanese guitars, since they usually just worked from day one....and did not need alot of work to become playable for normal work!
Most I encountered where better off growing on as trees....
But that is how it goes....there is no magic anywhere....only bad or good work!
Johtosotku
New member
Re: ESP Vintage Plus Strats
But we're talking about ESP here, which I believe is generally seen as a high-end japanese guitar brand. There's a difference between them, and say, Behringer, for example.
Of course guitars have a tendency to be generally the better the more money you can throw at building them. But there's nothing in the US soil that mystically makes guitars made there better than the others. If a company wants to make good guitars they can. And I believe that these days such asian companies exist, and that ESP is one of them.
But we're talking about ESP here, which I believe is generally seen as a high-end japanese guitar brand. There's a difference between them, and say, Behringer, for example.
Of course guitars have a tendency to be generally the better the more money you can throw at building them. But there's nothing in the US soil that mystically makes guitars made there better than the others. If a company wants to make good guitars they can. And I believe that these days such asian companies exist, and that ESP is one of them.
uOpt
Something Cool
Re: ESP Vintage Plus Strats
I don't think our positions are that different after all (sans the probabilities of course). As I said, there is no question that from workmanship, and that includes setup and playability, the Asian instruments almost always come out better, considering medium quality instruments on both sides.
Have you guys seen the Gibson factory video that is being slammed elsewhere on the forum? Can't say it surprises me.
Still, my pure sound dud rate favors U.S. manufactured instruments and I usually rip the whole thing apart the same day I get it, so lousy setup and no shielding doesn't disturb me.
On the contrary, since I like to fiddle I prefer an instrument with maybe a little more potential and totally screwed up in fixable areas to a perfectly usable out of the box guitar. I just can't leave the thing alone either way.
I don't think our positions are that different after all (sans the probabilities of course). As I said, there is no question that from workmanship, and that includes setup and playability, the Asian instruments almost always come out better, considering medium quality instruments on both sides.
Have you guys seen the Gibson factory video that is being slammed elsewhere on the forum? Can't say it surprises me.
Still, my pure sound dud rate favors U.S. manufactured instruments and I usually rip the whole thing apart the same day I get it, so lousy setup and no shielding doesn't disturb me.
On the contrary, since I like to fiddle I prefer an instrument with maybe a little more potential and totally screwed up in fixable areas to a perfectly usable out of the box guitar. I just can't leave the thing alone either way.
