Fattening Guitar tone

[LesStrat]

This will be obvious to some, and new to others. I’m not the expert, but I’m finding useful tricks and techniques.

We are listening to a track we recently recorded, and the guitar tone is HUGE.

What did I do?

I double tracked. Same tone. Same signal path.

Different guitars.

We have recorded a couple of others that I used different tones with different guitars. I’m getting fantastic tones.

My next challenge is a clean strat riff. I’m thinking of doubling an acoustic. What do you think?

 

[jeremy]

doubling with an acoustic can sound great. even on dirty parts, it adds clarity and punch

 

[Sam SG]

Try differant amps too. Years ago one of my coolest tones was a my same strat double tracked one track with a Marshall Plexi other track with a Sunn Model T both with an MXR Dist plus as a boost.

 

[Chris Pile]

Take a tip from Glenn Fricker - speakers color tone to a big extent. And truthfully - it's your whole chain from finger to speaker cone that creates your sound.

 

[GuitarStv]

Double tracking might work well depending on the piece. I've found that stereo micing seems to make my acoustic tracks sound much bigger too. I like to put an LDC about three feet back and an SDC about a foot from the guitar, pointed at the 12th fret. Then you have to futz around with the positioning a bit to avoid phase cancellation if you're summing to mono and to find the best sounding spot. In the track itself, pan one mic 50-80% left and the other 50-80% right and add a touch of 'verb. I wouldn't spend the time for an acoustic track that's just strumming in a busy mix, but if you're doing something where the acoustic is more on display this technique can really make things shine.

 

[Securb]

I use a few tricks in parallel

• I record two amps in stereo - The VOX brings in that clarity Jeremy is talking about
• I use an EP type delay with a boost, there is an almost unnoticeable delay on the signal w/boost
• On leads, I use a harmonizer once agin set subtle it almost sounds like a chorus
• I also double the guitars

 

[Snake Aces]

Fat guitar tone has been my obsession for over 20 years. Like Securb, I like running two amps.

However, I was able to achieve a fat tone in Europe from 2013 to 2015 using a single Laney Cub12R loaded with a Cannabis Rex.

Now I have a super fat tone using two amps, a 2x12 with a head, and a 1x12 combo. I am currently looking to separate the combo into a head and two 1x12s.

Fat tone without sacrificing cleans is what it's all about for me. It always will be.

 

[LesStrat]

Try differant amps too. Years ago one of my coolest tones was a my same strat double tracked one track with a Marshall Plexi other track with a Sunn Model T both with an MXR Dist plus as a boost.

To clarify: in my 2nd example, the different tones were completely different signal paths from beginning to end.

My first example was interesting because the only change was the guitar. The guitars sound different enough to alter the tone, but similar enough to mesh. The result was glorious!

I am going to try doubling with the acoustic next week. The song we’re doing has this funky, clean riff driving it (in the vein of Finish What You Started). I don’t know want to change the tone, and I don’t think doubling the same guitar will get the result I seek.

No, I’m not suggesting that the song sounds like VH. It’s just the style it reminds me of.

 

[Mincer]

VH didn't double the rhythms on the first few VH albums....and it sounded pretty fat. I think there are many paths to get there.

 

[LesStrat]

Certainly. I’m just sharing some recent experiences. The one that sparked this thread was surprising. The only difference on the second track was the guitar.

The first was a Parker Fly Deluxe with a Brobucker pickup.

The second track was a Parker Fly Mojo using a JB.

The tones were just different enough to thicken the tone.

We have doubled digitally before with decent results.

I expected using different rigs to work well, but was still surprised at how well.

The next session will be a clean strat for the main riff. I’m considering doubling that with an acoustic. IDK if I can make it work or not. We’ll see.

 

[Securb]

On the Eventide, I do not use too many of the presets. However, there is a preset called "FAT" that is EVH's Balance-era rhythm tone. I never use it on my rhythms, but have used it on many leads.

 

[LesStrat]

I ended up not using the acoustic. I recorded the main track with the Strat in the #2 position for the Strat honk. I added a compressor for clarity.

For the second track, same rig with the compressor off. Pickup selector at #4 position just to thicken the tone. It’s likely that the 1st track will be louder in the mix.

He might double the tracks on the recording. We tossed around ideas last night.

This is the strat I posted about a while back. Old body, pre-CBS neck. Van Zandt pickups.

It already sounded good just listening to the playback without mixing.

 

[El Dunco]

It’s really hard to say why without knowing the exact signal chain of being able to hear it. “Huge” doesn’t tell me much except that it’s serendipitously fitting perfectly in the mix with an ideal frequency balance that requires very literal compromise of the elements you loved most about it when you first laid it down.

You probably performed the double tracking precisely enough that it almost sounds like one guitar with a big, wide stereo image. A lot of hugeness comes from absolute lockstep double tracking, especially if you make both guitars sound very slightly different for better stereo separation when panned left and right.

 

[beaubrummels]

FWIW IME a few things that thicken guitar sound

In mono (includes multiple tracks panned to the same location)

1. A very small amount of EQ bump in the low mids and deep bass range
2. Combining a bass guitar underneath the guitar part
3. Two very different guitars with complimentary tone (e.g. scooped Fender with mid-heavy Gibson) using the same signal path (amp, cab/speakers, mic, preamp, etc.)

In stereo (panned left and right; doesn't have to be hard left/right)

1. Same exact guitar track with between 10-40ms of delay on one side; a small amount of treble attenuation (low-pass filter or analog degredation) on the delayed side helps differentiate them a little more
2. Same guitar and signal path just played twice as close as possible.
3. Same guitar track Y-split into two different amps/cabs with same mic-type/pre-type
4. Same exact guitar and signal path played twice with one side slightly out of tune or intonation out a bit
5. Same guitar Y-split into two identical amps/cabs using stereo chorus, set to taste (e.g. either very little or a lot of depth/speed/ratio)

 

[GuitarStv]

1. A very small amount of EQ bump in the low mids and deep bass range
2. Combining a bass guitar underneath the guitar part

I feel like 2 should be the default option. Bumping the low mids (even by a small bit) usually means a boost in the frequencies where mud tends to build up and unless you have a very sparse arrangement it can cause a lot of annoying problems come mixing time. Duplicating the guitar part with bass (or often better, writing a slightly different bass part that reinforces the guitar part) is just good songwriting, and sidesteps the whole mud frequencies problem.

 

[Snake Aces]

I feel like 2 should be the default option. Bumping the low mids (even by a small bit) usually means a boost in the frequencies where mud tends to build up and unless you have a very sparse arrangement it can cause a lot of annoying problems come mixing time. Duplicating the guitar part with bass (or often better, writing a slightly different bass part that reinforces the guitar part) is just good songwriting, and sidesteps the whole mud frequencies problem.

As a bassplayer, I have never struggled with my tone in a full band mix or recording scenario.

As a guitar player, different story. I always have to turn my mids down a bit and bump the treble a bit without getting into even worse ice pick territory when playing with a full band. It's amazing how much guitar tone sounds so good when isolated but can turn to mud if those same settings are used with a full band.

It is what it is...

 

[beaubrummels]

I feel like 2 should be the default option. Bumping the low mids (even by a small bit) usually means a boost in the frequencies where mud tends to build up and unless you have a very sparse arrangement it can cause a lot of annoying problems come mixing time. Duplicating the guitar part with bass (or often better, writing a slightly different bass part that reinforces the guitar part) is just good songwriting, and sidesteps the whole mud frequencies problem.

It applies when it's solo guitar, like solo acoustic, or a song that isn't a complete band. It thickens the guitar. Not applicable to every situation, which is why there are other options.

 

[Securb]

It's amazing how much guitar tone sounds so good when isolated but can turn to mud if those same settings are used with a full band.

It is what it is...

The bass player robs a lot of our low frequencies stealing the guitar's punch.

 

[GuitarStv]

It applies when it's solo guitar, like solo acoustic, or a song that isn't a complete band. It thickens the guitar. Not applicable to every situation, which is why there are other options.

Yeah, that makes sense. Then you don't have a bunch of other stuff throwing those low mids in and contributing to the mud. I love a guitar sound with lots of lows and low mids when I'm playing alone.

 

[Snake Aces]

The bass player robs a lot of our low frequencies stealing the guitar's punch.

I would call that the guitarist stealing the bass guitar's frequencies.

I can see how that could be a problem with some music though. Point taken.