Fender '59 Bassman LTD mods?

[Arrigus]

Hi everybody!

I've got a Fender Bassman, the LTD version.
Now I'd like to do some modifications to the amplifier, in order to get a warmer sound, especially at hi volumes.
I really don't know from where to start! I've read that a great mod is to change the output transformer. I've read also that the Jensen speakers that I have now aren't so good... and what about a Hoffman point-to-point circuit board?

Well... suggestions are welcome!!! :bigok:

 

[More-Gear-Than-Skill]

Re: Fender '59 Bassman LTD mods?

Depending on what you don't like about your current sound, and what you want to spend...

1 New tubes allround,
2 some minor circuit tweaks (cap substitutions in the preamp area?),
3 major circuit surgery
4 full handwired P2P overhaul
5 New Iron
6 New Speakers
7 Sell it and buy a vintage blackface Super Reverb ( http://www.ampwares.com/ffg/super_reverb_bf.html ) ahhh, if i had cash...

There's no point in ploughing tons of cash in and ending up at option 7 anyway.

 

[Scott_F]

Re: Fender '59 Bassman LTD mods?

Well, for one, a vintage blackface super is going to be plenty bright, so that's not a great option.

Now, is it just the bright channel that bothers you? If so, clip the small cap that is on the volume pot lugs. (assuming its not on a circuit board somewhere).

If its the overall brightness of the amp, you can change a small value cap that runs to the treble control.

It might just be that you don't like 10" speakers.

I'd not change the iron. If so, i'd also pop a handwired board with premium components in. I'd say they go hand in hand, but its a major cost.

Lots of options for sure. I've played that particular amp and they sound pretty good to my ears.

Maybe pop some lower output power tubes like some of the reissue Tung Sol 5881's if the amp has big bottle 6L6's in there right now.

I'm trying to think of cheap things you can try versus going nuts and gutting it.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Fender '59 Bassman LTD mods?

having owned one of those amps that is now owned by a friend of mine that we have spent a decent amount of time playing with is change the speakers. the p10r isnt a bad speaker but its kinda bright. i much prefer the p10q. i think my friend has a mix of weber 10" right now i think three 10a125o and a 10a150. it sounds awesome with way more beef.

the first thing is to bias the amp hotter they come pretty cold as far as ive seen, i liked mine at about 42 ma. it made a noticable difference

 

[J Moose]

Re: Fender '59 Bassman LTD mods?

I'd change the tubes & speakers before anything else...

New circuits & a point to point overhaul are $$$ and will entirely change the amp, so much so that I'd save the trouble and look for a new amp.

 

[ES350]

Re: Fender '59 Bassman LTD mods?

get better tubes---bias them hotter. Then try speakers. If you still don't like the amp, then sell it and get something else. This reminds me of the old joke about jacking up the radiator cap and sliding a new car under it...

 

[Arrigus]

Re: Fender '59 Bassman LTD mods?

Thank you guys!

Well. I think that the LTD Bassman sounds pretty good. I really like the warm thick tones that I can get with my tele through that amp, especially when I play live (where I usually crank it at about 6 - 7).

BUT...

sometimes, it sounds really ice-picky! :smack:
I mean, I don't care for the bright channel (seems to be pretty useless right now): I run my tele through 2 TS808 and then right into the Bassman NORMAL CHANNEL. Overdrive sounds are great, very cremy. Clean sounds are warm, very thick... but sometimes very very bright, ice-picky, especially if I stand in front of the amp, and listen closely.

So let me tell you what I think:

-I like the GT 6L6GE that I have on the amp; I'd say, I'd like to keep these tubes;
-I have an Hoffman point-to-point 5F6A board... I bought it as a Xmas present, but I haven't installed it yet!
-Sounds like the Jensen P10R are very bright...
-I keep on reading that one of the most useful mods is changing the output trans... ?:dunno:

So: do you think I should install the hoffman board, and consider changing speakers?

And then one more thing.
I've never tried a Victoria Bassman. But it sounds like it's the best bassman clone around. Is it so good? In what is different from the fender?
I mean, there must be some mods to do that can improve my amp.
When I think that Danny Gatton used one of the first a Fender Reissued Bassmans, ok, heavily modified, but a Fender... I think... "there's no way I'll use a Victoria"!!!

 

[jeremy]

Re: Fender '59 Bassman LTD mods?

the vic's are better built with better componants, they are great amps.

the gt6l6ge tubes arent bad, id keep em till they wear out rather than spending money on a better set

if you have the board then you might as well do the ptp thing

the first two things i would do are jump the channels and adjust the bias. i like the tone better with the channels jumped on every tweed bassman ive ever tried

 

[Arrigus]

Re: Fender '59 Bassman LTD mods?

I agree the Victorias are great amps.
What I'm asking myself is: "there must be a way to get close to a Victoria sound and quality with my amp"... or is just not possible...?

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Fender '59 Bassman LTD mods?

I'd just sell it...

Seriously, I've owned a bunch of original tweed Bassmans from the 50's and also a Victoria...I always end up selling them.

I know some of my favorite players (like Buddy Guy) love 'em and swear by 'em but for me, they're both to trebley and to bassy.

I've done the speaker swapping thing too...tried a bunch of differant Webers and combinations of Webers...and I have a nice little stash of old 50's and 60's Jensens (P10R, P10Q and C10N) I've used too.

Tweed Bassmans just don't do it for me.

Lew

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Fender '59 Bassman LTD mods?

I've owned both a 90's reissue and a newer LTD version, and here's my thoughts.

The power tubes that came with it are high quality, so no need to change them. If you'd like the preamp to be a slight bit darker, put a JJ ECC83S in the first position.

As Jeremy said, bridging the channels and some new speakers might do the trick. A hotter bias might lower the headroom a little too, so it compresses better. The LTD is not too far from point to point as it is. It's actually a nice circuit board with flying leads. There's no telling how the Hoffman board will fare, but if you have one already, it MIGHT be worthwhile.

Like Lew said, he's never gotten along with Bassmans because of the overall sound of them, despite mods, and I think the reason is that the cab and 4 10" Jensens have a particular sound. I'm not sure I love it either, which is why I sold mine and opt for a Matchless Chieftain to cover that territory.

I much prefer the sound of 2-12 combos or 2-12 sealed cabs w/head. After comparing the Bassman to a Bassbreaker, the same amp with different speakers, I decided I like 2 Vin 30's over 4 Jensens. That leaves you with a few options. You could possibly change the baffleboard over to 2 12's, or you could order new cabinetry from Mojo. I'm positive that a Bassman LTD would sound much more to my liking if the chassis were placed in a headbox, and purchased with a matching 2-12 cab, loaded with a Vin 30 and H30.

Don't forget, you could recoup a big chunk of that cost by Ebaying the original cab and 4 Jensens. With all the project builders out there, it'd get snapped up for whatever you wanted for it.

Take a look at this Fender Hotrod conversion w/Mojo cabinetry and white chicken head knobs.
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?t=109149

 

[Arrigus]

Re: Fender '59 Bassman LTD mods?

Well, I've got the opportunity to try the Bassman with a 2x12 cab (a Marshall 2061cx with two Celestion G12H); well, it helped to tame the overall brightness of the amp, but it also helped me to discover that I prefer the original 4x10 cab. The 2x12 tends to be a more traditional guitar sound, but I really prefer the sound that comes out of 4 tens.
So, maybe I should try new speakers...
But I still want to modify the amp in order to get close to a boutique quality clone.

Sounds like lots of bucks... $$$ :argh:

 

[More-Gear-Than-Skill]

Re: Fender '59 Bassman LTD mods?

Forgive me stating the obvious... But almost any amp will sound bright in the up close, directly infront of position. You should really judge the sound a little off axis and at least 12 feet away....

also, be aware that some pedals (like my double muff EH) are all treble when they're not first in the chain... go figure...

How bout a nice dark LANEY?

 

[ES350]

Re: Fender '59 Bassman LTD mods?

I agree with Lew about the Bassman thing---not my favorite tweed. I've had a few that sounded pretty good with the original P10R's (which blew up on a very regular basis), but too often they sound like they are missing a lot of mids and they get too clanky.

The difference between your amp and a Vic is not all that much, but I'm not sure if you want to go through all that $$$ and work to get something that you may not like anyway...If you don't like the natural sound of an amp, sell it and get something else. Futzing around with PTP boards, OT's, carbon comp resistors, polyester vs. polyprop caps, and all of the rest of the mojo BS are not gonna change that.

 

[J Moose]

Re: Fender '59 Bassman LTD mods?

Speakers man...

Try some speakers.

Got a 4x12 or 2x12 around?

Maybe another combo? ANYTHING really.

Plug into that... see if it doesn't immedaitly sound 1000 times better or worse!

Does that beast run a 2.7ohm load?

4ohms would be safe.



The "right" set of speakers will knock out the nasly/fierce upper mids & put some bottom 'girth' & whomp into the tone.

Celestion Vintage 10's seemed to make a WHOLE lotta difference against whatever was in the stock '59 reissue. I don't think they make those anymore though...

 

[Arrigus]

Re: Fender '59 Bassman LTD mods?

Speakers man...

Try some speakers.

Got a 4x12 or 2x12 around?

Maybe another combo? ANYTHING really.

I've got a 2x12 cab with Celestion G12H. I've tried the Bassman with that cab. I like it, but I still prefer the sound of its 4x10 cab. It's hard to describe, but the bassman sound sure is bright, but I find it beefy and very rich too.
I think I really need new speakers, more efficent, and less bright.
I've read that Weber makes a good repro of the original Jensen speakers; I've seen they are a tad expensive, but do you think are the best speakers available?

 

[jeremy]

Re: Fender '59 Bassman LTD mods?

for 10's, yes ted weber probably makes the best new production speakers. tweed amps have a fat rich tone. talk to ted weber and ask him what he thinks. alnico magnet speakers arent cheap

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Fender '59 Bassman LTD mods?

If it were my amp, I'd go with Celestion 10's.
That's just my 2 cents, since I'd want to voice it a little more British.

 

[Skoora]

Re: Fender '59 Bassman LTD mods?

Forgive me stating the obvious... But almost any amp will sound bright in the up close, directly infront of position. You should really judge the sound a little off axis and at least 12 feet away....

also, be aware that some pedals (like my double muff EH) are all treble when they're not first in the chain... go figure...

How bout a nice dark LANEY?

I agree. Any amp is too much if you get right up on the speaker and listen. Have you recorded with it to hear what a mic is hearing. Often an amp that is harsh up close can be just right through a microphone. Especially when mixed with a band. If you don't intend to play live or record with it then change away.

Have you considered getting something like a mojo/avatar 2x10 or 4x10 cab and then experimenting with different 10's so you can leave the original's alone. I really want to get a 2x12 and put some blues or Cel golds in it and run my Marshall through the 4x12 and that for recording.

 

[britishgeetah]

Re: Fender '59 Bassman LTD mods?

Yeah, it must have a treble bleed cap somewhere on the volume pots.

the first thing is to bias the amp hotter they come pretty cold as far as ive seen, i liked mine at about 42 ma. it made a noticable difference

How do you do this?