Fender/Lawrence SCN's

[ParameterMan]

Re: Fender/Lawrence SCN's

Hey, this may be too much to ask, but always wanted to see a schematic of what's going on inside one of those things.

 

[Artie]

Re: Fender/Lawrence SCN's

Not a problem, it will just take me a little time. I've got a couple other projects ahead of this one that I promised folks. (Drawing the schematic, that is.)

 

[strangegrey]

Re: Fender/Lawrence SCN's

btw, the specs are:

neck: 6.38k
middle: 6.62k
bridge: 11.37k

That explains why the bridge SCN pup is such a good pup...I hadn't realized it's that overwound....but I've always found vintage wound bridge pups in a strat to lack any girth....and the SCN bridge doesn't have a problem in that department.

 

[strangegrey]

Re: Fender/Lawrence SCN's

Nice looking numbers on those things. Curious as to how they sound without the S1 in there and wired up like a normal Strat.

This has been on my radar for quite some time now.

If I end up keeping this strat as a 3 single strat, I'm keeping the SCNs...It's taken me a very long time, but I've finally found a sweet spot, as far as pickup height goes...and they are great pups.

My problem is with the s1 switch, which I strongly feel is a waste, due to the inability to get one good sound with the switch pushed in...and is a ticking time bomb (with respect to potentially breakable parts).

I would be very interested to see if the s1 switch actually affects to overall sound of the guitar. Regardless, removing the middle pup from the tone circuitry and getting a better cap in there could turn the strat into a real player.

However, if I do go HSS, I want position #4 to be silent...which means the SCN's get the boot...since they aren't tapable...So in that case, it will either be some fat 50s, SSL-3s or Texas Specials in the middle and neck position...and either a 59 or a JB in the bridge...

I'm currently leaning to keeping the SCN's in place...and just ditching the s1...

If Artie can get the SCN's to work in a traditionally wired strat, I'm probably going to keep the SCNs and do just that...

-Frank

 

[Artie]

Re: Fender/Lawrence SCN's

My problem is with the s1 switch, which I strongly feel is a waste . . .

I'm guessing that rraawwrr feels the same way, since he removed it before sending me the pickguard.

If Artie can get the SCN's to work in a traditionally wired strat, I'm probably going to keep the SCNs and do just that...

-Frank

No problem. The SCN's are just 2-wire singles once you remove the other crap. Wiring these up should be easy.

rraawwrr: Did you want the conventional 2-tone controls, or would you prefer the "blend pot" option? Let me know. Doing this today.

Artie

Edit: If you don't mind, post here in the forum. I can't read PM's at work.

 

[strangegrey]

Re: Fender/Lawrence SCN's

No problem. The SCN's are just 2-wire singles once you remove the other crap. Wiring these up should be easy.

So artie, just ganging the green and black leads on all 3 pups...and using the other leads on the pups as hots will allow me to wire this thing up in a traditional sense?

If so, I might have to get into scrubs and start surgery....

 

[Artie]

Re: Fender/Lawrence SCN's

So artie, just ganging the green and black leads on all 3 pups...and using the other leads on the pups as hots will allow me to wire this thing up in a traditional sense?

If so, I might have to get into scrubs and start surgery....

Exactly. I finished rraawwrr's today. It looks like this:

rraawwrr: I took a couple of liberty's with your wiring. Let me know if you don't like this and I'll change it. I wired the second tone control as a Fralin blend pot for the bridge, and I used the 50's mod for the tone control.
I used a .033uf Orange Drop for the cap. Its a nice compromise between the Fender .047 and a .022.

Again, if you don't want that, let me know. Otherwise, I'll take this to the PO tomorrow.

Artie

 

[ErikH]

Re: Fender/Lawrence SCN's

That looks great, Artie. With the foil backing on there, you may be able to eliminate a potential ground loop by taking off the black ground wires connecting the back of the pots together. They should already be connected just by being mounted in the pickguard if that foil is conductive enough.

 

[Artie]

Re: Fender/Lawrence SCN's

I thought of that. In fact, I metered it, and it was good to go. But since it was someone else's, and they had it done that way, I wanted to keep the basic technique they had. Besides, I'm not sure I trust the foil for longevity.

 

[ErikH]

Re: Fender/Lawrence SCN's

I thought of that. In fact, I metered it, and it was good to go. But since it was someone else's, and they had it done that way, I wanted to keep the basic technique they had. Besides, I'm not sure I trust the foil for longevity.

Good point on the longevity. As long as the meter reads zero then.

I really need to neaten up my Strat. It looks like a spaghetti factory from all the swaps I've done...LOL. I'll wait until I put the neck and middle back in. Working on cleaning up some other things first.

 

[Artie]

Re: Fender/Lawrence SCN's

To be honest, my own guitars look like spaghetti also. But if I'm doing one for someone else . . .

 

[ErikH]

Re: Fender/Lawrence SCN's

To be honest, my own guitars look like spaghetti also. But if I'm doing one for someone else . . .

Bwaaahahahahaha!!!!

Doesn't that always seem to be the case for everything? :laugh2:

 

[rraawwrr]

Re: Fender/Lawrence SCN's

Sorry everyone, I didn't realize this had popped up again! I see I've got some questions to answer here.

Strangegrey: As Artie said, no it's not worked out, although by now it may be. I'll give everyone a full report when I get the guard back and plugged in. I'm really looking forward to getting these back with out the convoluted S-1 system in place.

Artie: First of all, please call me Eric :smokin:. Artie, I don't know how, but you read my mind as far as the wiring goes - I wanted a Fralin Blender in for the second tone, and 50's mod with a master tone control. And the .033 cap seems like a good idea, too. All in all, it looks great! Much better than when I shipped it out! Really, it looks great, and I really appreciate your time and effort you put into this!

- Edit -
Strangegrey: What guage strings do you use and what are the heights of your SCN's? I was struggling to get good heights with them before I sent them out, and I think I could use a good starting spot. Thanks!

 

[Artie]

Re: Fender/Lawrence SCN's

Artie: First of all, please call me Eric.

Cool. I hate trying to spell your screen name.

Artie, I don't know how, but you read my mind as far as the wiring goes - I wanted a Fralin Blender in for the second tone, and 50's mod with a master tone control. And the .033 cap seems like a good idea, too.

They don't call me the "wiring guru" for nothing.

I'll try to get this out tomorrow.

I'll leave the "output jack" and "bridge ground" wires for you. You can deal with that, right? Let me know.

Artie

btw - This was a fun project.

 

[strangegrey]

Re: Fender/Lawrence SCN's

Artie, have you tried Eric's pickguard with the rewired SCNs? Is everything quiet?


Also, and this may be a stupid question....is there someone that can explain '50s wiring' and what exactly are the benefits and drawbacks of it?

afaik, strat wiring hasn't really changed all that much...but I'm more than willing to let someone correct me...

-F

 

[ErikH]

Re: Fender/Lawrence SCN's

Here, Artie. Let me dust off the podium and get the mic in the right spot for ya. <echo>"Hello, is this thing on?"</echo> Your pointer is on the top shelf of the podium, sir. Slides are all queued up as well.

LIGHTS!!!!

LMFAO!

:laugh2: :laugh2:

strangegrey, he'll explain it all to ya. Just getting his environment ready...LOL.

 

[rraawwrr]

Re: Fender/Lawrence SCN's

Artie, have you tried Eric's pickguard with the rewired SCNs? Is everything quiet?


Also, and this may be a stupid question....is there someone that can explain '50s wiring' and what exactly are the benefits and drawbacks of it?

afaik, strat wiring hasn't really changed all that much...but I'm more than willing to let someone correct me...

-F

50's wiring, to the best of my understanding, is a way of wiring the circuit so that when the volume is rolled off, the treble is not rolled off. The treble content at 10 is the same as when its at 5, just quieter.

That's not a very good explanation but basically, you don't lose any high frequencies when the volume is backed off. Also, you don't get more high frequencies like when using a treble bleed mod (I think?)

Edit - I don't mean to steal Artie's thunder - think of it as a prep answer!

 

[strangegrey]

Re: Fender/Lawrence SCN's

Strangegrey: What guage strings do you use and what are the heights of your SCN's? I was struggling to get good heights with them before I sent them out, and I think I could use a good starting spot. Thanks!

Eric, I've got 10s on the strat right now...and I've largely stuck with 10s, since moving up from 9s a few years ago. Nothing wrong with 9s or 10s...I know a guy that plays with 12s or 13s and he boasts that he gets great tone from the guitar. Whenever I jam with him, I always observe his tone to be no better than mine....but he's got purple fingers at the end of the night and I dont.

As far as pickup height on the SCNs...it's hard to say. I've pretty much returned to the factory recommended settings (refer to the gearhead site for this) and then I've dropped the low E side a hair on all pups. I've found that, not only does the overall height of the pups matter....but the angle of the pickup with respect to the strings matters. If you really drop one end or another, it tends to change the way the pickups 'pickup'....probably because you're changing the axis of the magnetic field.

I've had to adjust my amps slightly for a little more highs...but when I do all these things, the pickups sound about as good as any noiseless pup I've tried...and as I've said, I've tried em all (dimarzio VVs, fender noiseless, holy grails, kinmans, etc)...and even though I suspect real singles would make me the most happy for single coil mojo...I am living in an electronically noisy environment and I dont want to say goodbye to noiseless pups just yet....

So my recommendation to you, to get the SCNs to work for you...is to start at the factory recommended settings...and then slightly drop the bass side of the pups a few turns. To get a hair more clarity.... If that doesn't do the trick....bring the bass sides back up...and then drop the whole pickup a bit...try again....then after that, try dropping the bass side again...

The trick is to really do this very systematically and methodically.....count the turns on the screwdriver when dropping the pups or dropping a side...and work with one pickup at a time, until it's time to balance them out....

I've come to the conclussion that single coil noiseless pups are just alot harder to dial in...they tend to have a very tight sweetspot. Drop em too low, they're weak and anemic. Bring them up too high, and they're too muddy and humbuckery....but find that sweet spot, and you're golden.



...Also, Eric...please let me know how your guitar sounds with the S-1 yanked. I can't help but wonder whether this switch contributes to some of the mud of this guitar...and if you yanked it and put a better cap in there, and did a fairly straightforward wiring, you'd see a significant difference....plus, that switch doesn't have a single worthy tone with it pushed in...it's mud city.

-F

 

[rraawwrr]

Re: Fender/Lawrence SCN's

Strangegrey - I hear you about the touch of treble needed and the issues with pickup height. I've never owned any pickups as finicky as those beasts. I'd gotten some good tones out of them, but I don't think I had gotten the sweet spot yet. But the best sounds I've got have been damn good. Granted, it's not Eric Johnson's clean sound, but that's more of his blackface Fender amps than the guitar IMO. Living in a 1950's house, I have pretty noisy electricity and standard single coils were just plain obnoxious to play under gain.

As far as the Fender reccommended heights, did you use the noiseless pickup heights or the standard pickup heights? I assume the noiseless but these aren't your everyday noiseless pickups.

With regards to the strat without S-1 switch, I just realized that I may have installed a 500k volume pot, as opposed to the 1meg pot that came stock (the pot with the switch). I meant to take that out before I sent it to Artie, and maybe he'll see this if he hasn't sent it away already. If not, no big deal. I can put that back in easily. Grey, I'll give you a full report (and some clips too) when it arrives. And yeah, the S-1 system sucks the big one IMO - the series connections all sounded like butt all the time. Take care!

Eric

 

[strangegrey]

Re: Fender/Lawrence SCN's

With regards to the strat without S-1 switch, I just realized that I may have installed a 500k volume pot, as opposed to the 1meg pot that came stock (the pot with the switch). I meant to take that out before I sent it to Artie, and maybe he'll see this if he hasn't sent it away already. If not, no big deal. I can put that back in easily. Grey, I'll give you a full report (and some clips too) when it arrives. Take care!

Eric,

That's not good news. The s1 switch has a darn 1meg pot in it?!?! I was under the impression that it was a 250k pot...as was the rest of the guitar.

If it is indeed a 1meg pot (can you measure the pot for me if you still have it?) Then I would expect the SCNs to sound downright muddy if used with anything lower than a 1meg pot...since the SCNs are dark in their own right...

if that happens, I might bail on them regardless...

-Frank