Forum p'up v. 2.0: aka "Hy-Bro" 2015

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Re: Forum p'up v. 2.0: aka "Hy-Bro" 2015

LtK, how do you feel about my prior suggestion of basing it on the existing '59 neck and creating a new neck Custom coil to match with it? This would also inherently create a new Custom series neck pickup, so it's a lot of bang for your buck.
Yes, I've considered not only yours but others', so the possibility of creating a whole new product will be put to vote in a poll later on.

It doesn't always look that way but I DO listen, you know? ;)
 
Re: Forum p'up v. 2.0: aka "Hy-Bro" 2015

i dont know if this is something im interested in, but i agree that double screws in the neck probably isnt a good idea.
Why is that, Jeremy?
i like it in the bridge but not in the neck
If the law of physics is any indication, a double-screw config is much more of use on the neck position than on the bridge.

What exactly did you try that you didn't like? PM if you so want. ;)
 
Re: Forum p'up v. 2.0: aka "Hy-Bro" 2015

I'm surprised so many people have tried double screw coils before, they've not very common. The closest I've come is the Epiphone Filtertron style HB pickup, and it's a fat, powerful pickup in series. By default it's wired in parallel in order to better imitate a Filter'tron... and it fails at that. I leave in series all the time.

Features-Pickups-jpg.aspx


That experience aside, I've read that the screw coil is weaker than the slug coil since the fillister screws are smaller in mass than the slugs are, hence the appeal of double hex screw coils instead. I've never hooked up an SD Triple Shot to a traditional PAF, just a P-Rails, but I'm sure someone else has, and they could confirm for us whether there is a significant difference between the slug and screw coil since the Triple Shot offers either coil by itself.
 
Re: Forum p'up v. 2.0: aka "Hy-Bro" 2015

The very first hybrids I made in 2005 were double screw. Especially after I found out that James Hetfields mystery humbucker was double screw I spent a lot of time playing with that configuration. Bepe isnt the only one who has experimented and tried different alloy and screw combinations.

In the end double screws soften the attack and on a neck pickup it becomes mushy, Maybe if you play low gain jazz all the time it feels great. But I never play 100% clean even my clean has a hint of dirt in it and like that the double screws feel almost muted. If you never dig in hard you would probably never notice it. But for me if I bang on a pickup I want it to sound like I smacked it. Not mute it off.

I am also suspecting that the benefits of the supposed sweet spot over the 2nd coil are over stated. My suspicion comes 2 sources in the past first after read about Dimebag flipping his neck pickups around I tried it and ganked the screws every which way to see what sounds they produced. Then when I got my SG and I noticed how the strings crossed the pickup at an angle instead of parallel I flipped it around and adjusted the screws to try to compensate for it.

These experiences coupled with my later trials of double screw hybrids formed my opinions on screws in the neck. Im very comfortable in stating that I have tried it and I dont like it simple as that.

I can say that for me for how I play on my SG and my RG's that no mysterious sweet spot revealed itself. Maybe again this is something that comes out for other styles of music.
 
Re: Forum p'up v. 2.0: aka "Hy-Bro" 2015

You should really know by now that the magnet is only a small part of the equation, the wind is by far the most strong tone-shaping individual component.

Please excuse the aside. As time goes on I'm finding it's not that simple. I don't think the magnet merely contributes to an end tone, but is an end unto itself, apart from whatever the coil is doing. The coil's electronic properties are one thing, but how the magnetic field of a particular alloy allows the string and the coil to interact is another, separate and distinct from the coil wind, it's inductance or it's Q factor. In that respect, I think magnet choice is more akin to raising or lowering a pickup. Steve Blucher of DiMarzio said something to the effect "I could wind a pickup with ceramic and you'd never guess it was ceramic", but I don't know if I believe that, both because of this idea that the magnet and the coil have two different jobs, they don't merely sum together to create some sort of "tonal total", but also because of the prevailing conventional wisdom that A2 is soft and spongy, A5 is bright and snappy, and ceramic is piercing and immediate, that seems to pervade across many different pickup winds. If it all really just mushed together, I don't think we'd see this happening. So I am surprised to see an A2 and an A5 humbucker recommended as a pair, because I think they are different "balls of wax" if you're a discerning player. It's not just a change in tone, it's a change in feel, and that could be a jarring switch in one guitar. According to the somewhat accurate SD Tone Chart, there's not a single bridge/neck set in the entire Duncan line that mixes magnets unless you count the "Five-Twos". I don't know if choosing a magnet will be on the table if the forum pickup goal is to make a neck companion for the '59/Custom, but there's some food for thought.
 
Re: Forum p'up v. 2.0: aka "Hy-Bro" 2015

I strongly vote for mismatched coils (of course) WITH double screws!! I can't tell you how much better my neck sounds when I turn it so the screws are facing the bridge.
With 12 screws I could keep it still facing the bridge, lower the screws on the fretboard side a lot, still be able to get the pup up high so the mag is stronger for my bridge screws but with the nut side screws screwed in a bunch I could get a very nice rich sound. ALSO, for those who like the idea, but not the looks, set the screws the way you want and just cover the other side that is flat enough for a regular nickel cover and bang: a cool looking pickup with a LOT of room for under the hood tweaking. ALSO- they make 12 hole pup Covers at SD. I have one!
Pepe? Can you hear me calling?
SJ
 
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Re: Forum p'up v. 2.0: aka "Hy-Bro" 2015

Well hey, let's not be so hasty about the double screw idea. I mean the Demon makes a GREAT neck pickup and that has one row of normal screws and the other are hex poles, so that is also an option. Also consider that we can CHANGE the screws ourselves. Having one side hex and one side traditional with mismatched coils could be REALLY cool and unique, especially if wound differently from the Demon. I remember orpheo mentioning a Demon/Lover Hybrid stating that that was actually his favorite hybrid, and it likely uses 2 rows of screws of some kind. He said

"An added bonus is that you can make a great neck pickup with the other coils and choose from two widely different coils of the Screamin’ Demon because of the two coils with different polepieces. The hex polepieces will make the tone cleaner with an emphasis on the highs while the filister polepieces will give strengthen the midrange."

Maybe even 2 roles of hex poles similar to the Full Shred. I'm just saying, these are options to consider and double screw doesn't have to mean double filister, even if that is how it ships to you. 2 sets of screws. Plus you can raise one side by lowering the other if you want to brighten and clean the tone, plus if this hy-bro is bright right off the bat, maybe 2x screw is the way to go here. I like the idea because it can be both a set it and forget it type of pickup, or for anyone that wants to tweak and control their sound down to the micro details. If we are worried about losing highs, we can consider hexs on either one or both coils.

As for tone, I also like the woody low end with a hint of treble glass idea. The midrange voicing is what will drive the versatility of this pickup home.
 
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Re: Forum p'up v. 2.0: aka "Hy-Bro" 2015

Please excuse the aside. As time goes on I'm finding it's not that simple. I don't think the magnet merely contributes to an end tone, but is an end unto itself, apart from whatever the coil is doing. The coil's electronic properties are one thing, but how the magnetic field of a particular alloy allows the string and the coil to interact is another, separate and distinct from the coil wind, it's inductance or it's Q factor. In that respect, I think magnet choice is more akin to raising or lowering a pickup. Steve Blucher of DiMarzio said something to the effect "I could wind a pickup with ceramic and you'd never guess it was ceramic", but I don't know if I believe that, both because of this idea that the magnet and the coil have two different jobs, they don't merely sum together to create some sort of "tonal total", but also because of the prevailing conventional wisdom that A2 is soft and spongy, A5 is bright and snappy, and ceramic is piercing and immediate, that seems to pervade across many different pickup winds. If it all really just mushed together, I don't think we'd see this happening. So I am surprised to see an A2 and an A5 humbucker recommended as a pair, because I think they are different "balls of wax" if you're a discerning player. It's not just a change in tone, it's a change in feel, and that could be a jarring switch in one guitar. According to the somewhat accurate SD Tone Chart, there's not a single bridge/neck set in the entire Duncan line that mixes magnets unless you count the "Five-Twos". I don't know if choosing a magnet will be on the table if the forum pickup goal is to make a neck companion for the '59/Custom, but there's some food for thought.

The bolded section supports what I am saying......by someone who knows what they are talking about rather than someone guessing.
I have had low output ceramics too that don't sound ceramic - why, because of the wind.
Every time I have swapped mags it does a small amount of change, but never something big.
Look at all the A2 pickups and then listen to the tones (not the tonechart, thats not accurate at all). There is a vast difference between them.


And according to conventional wisdom??? Look at the mag descriptions from Throbak on their own magnet formulations and get back to me......there's another guy who knows what he is talking about.

Then go to the Bonamassa set and look at the mag sets there.

As a final word, the wind and the mag work together, you can't have one without the other. The magnet doesn't work as something with the string with the coil just along for the ride.

Anyhow. Moral is that you can mix mags quite happily - the wind of the neck pickup and its mag in question here will be based on the tone needed/wanted.
 
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Re: Forum p'up v. 2.0: aka "Hy-Bro" 2015

. Also consider that we can CHANGE the screws ourselves.

You can change screws for screws you cant change screws for slugs and slugs have a different length and mass. It opens options but not options that I would find desireable.

Its not that it would make a bad pickup its that it would make it a bad match for the idea of neck pickup to match the 59/C
 
Re: Forum p'up v. 2.0: aka "Hy-Bro" 2015

With this I can agree, and one of the things I thought of putting to vote was exactly that: having the "Hy-Bro" as a set. I've envisioned as a twelve-screw set, but hey, if that's not what people want, I'm just an army of one... ;)

I'd prefer this as well since who wouldn't want tweakability with adjustable screws on all poles not just six per pickup? I also prefer the look of double screws over the traditional screws/slugs. Not to mention you could pop in hex head poles which even further change the sound. With slugs you're stuck with that or the huge invader poles which would look screwy with 6 invader poles and 6 slotted filisters or hex poles.
 
Re: Forum p'up v. 2.0: aka "Hy-Bro" 2015

I'd have to differ from you based on the attack of a Full Shred neck pickup. Nothing soft about the attack at all but they are hex heads so there again another plus is you can dramatically alter the type of tone by replacing slotted screws with hex heads if you wish. That option is gone when you go to traditional slugs/screws.

The very first hybrids I made in 2005 were double screw. Especially after I found out that James Hetfields mystery humbucker was double screw I spent a lot of time playing with that configuration. Bepe isnt the only one who has experimented and tried different alloy and screw combinations.

In the end double screws soften the attack and on a neck pickup it becomes mushy, Maybe if you play low gain jazz all the time it feels great. But I never play 100% clean even my clean has a hint of dirt in it and like that the double screws feel almost muted. If you never dig in hard you would probably never notice it. But for me if I bang on a pickup I want it to sound like I smacked it. Not mute it off.

I am also suspecting that the benefits of the supposed sweet spot over the 2nd coil are over stated. My suspicion comes 2 sources in the past first after read about Dimebag flipping his neck pickups around I tried it and ganked the screws every which way to see what sounds they produced. Then when I got my SG and I noticed how the strings crossed the pickup at an angle instead of parallel I flipped it around and adjusted the screws to try to compensate for it.

These experiences coupled with my later trials of double screw hybrids formed my opinions on screws in the neck. Im very comfortable in stating that I have tried it and I dont like it simple as that.

I can say that for me for how I play on my SG and my RG's that no mysterious sweet spot revealed itself. Maybe again this is something that comes out for other styles of music.
 
Re: Forum p'up v. 2.0: aka "Hy-Bro" 2015

Pearly Burn or Perpetual Gates?

The hybrid name Perpetual Burning Gates would be awesome! Double hex heads on that for me please! I'd be for that! If it were a neck pickup I'd prefer a Pearly Gates bridge coil though. If those that haven't tried it, a Pearly Gates bridge pickup in the neck position is a nasty mother forker!
 
Re: Forum p'up v. 2.0: aka "Hy-Bro" 2015

With this I can agree, and one of the things I thought of putting to vote was exactly that: having the "Hy-Bro" as a set. I've envisioned as a twelve-screw set, but hey, if that's not what people want, I'm just an army of one... ;)

An army of one that is challenging everyone that disagrees with you.

I'm out of this entirely
 
Re: Forum p'up v. 2.0: aka "Hy-Bro" 2015

An army of one that is challenging everyone that disagrees with you.

I'm out of this entirely
Well, how the p'up will be, it'll be decide by voting... which didn't happen yet.

Your own "army of one" could be the deciding factor of passing the opposite of my idea. Would you give up that power?

Think about it, chadd... ;)
 
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Re: Forum p'up v. 2.0: aka "Hy-Bro" 2015

Entwistle has a lot of models with double screws, I've liked just about all of them. Most of them were ceramic too.
 
Re: Forum p'up v. 2.0: aka "Hy-Bro" 2015

You can change screws for screws you cant change screws for slugs and slugs have a different length and mass. It opens options but not options that I would find desireable.

Its not that it would make a bad pickup its that it would make it a bad match for the idea of neck pickup to match the 59/C

Bolded why I liked this post.

Sent from my Moto X 2014 using Tapatalk
 
Re: Forum p'up v. 2.0: aka "Hy-Bro" 2015

Entwistle has a lot of models with double screws, I've liked just about all of them. Most of them were ceramic too.
Well, ceramic has more attack, right? And double screws lessens attack? Makes sense.

Sent from my Moto X 2014 using Tapatalk
 
Re: Forum p'up v. 2.0: aka "Hy-Bro" 2015

I'd have to differ from you based on the attack of a Full Shred neck pickup. Nothing soft about the attack at all but they are hex heads so there again another plus is you can dramatically alter the type of tone by replacing slotted screws with hex heads if you wish. That option is gone when you go to traditional slugs/screws.
I'm speaking about fillister screws not hex screws. The proposed form factor is double fillister. I'm not interested in what a pickup can be modified into, any pickup can be modified. To me a pickup that requires modification to be useful to me is worthless. Mods should be something you do cause you want to not cause you need to. Let us not forget also that Duncan doesn't sell hardware so we either have to rely on vendors like mojotone or rob screws from other pickups. Depending on what you are after it might not be so easy to get the correct alloy in the shape you want.

The hybro idea makes no sense if the pickup is to be a neck version of the 59C. It would be better paired with its own bridge pickup.
 
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