Getting that "vowel-y" lead sound/pole height notes

[Varg]

You know what I mean, when you hit a note in a solo and it goes "waaaah" without a wah pedal. I always assumed it was something certain pickups did - my JBs all do it, the Distortion I put in my new Charvel Star does it to a really silly (I mean fantastic!) extent...*

I just put a Full Shred in the bridge of my Gibson LP Studio Faded and was NOT getting that vowely- lead tone at all. But from a search on here, it's apparently something that pickup should be doing.

So I tried raising the poles on the bridge side and...there we go, the vowely-y tone is there!

I've never seen anyone note this before - so, is this a coincidence, or does changing the pole heights make this vowel-y tone more distinct? I was wondering if it's a bit like when people say the hybrid's sound "3D", because they have two different coils at work. So, in a regular pickup, especially one like the Full Shred where you can adjust BOTH rows of poles, I thought creating a greater difference in height between each pair of poles on each string will - in a way - make each bobbin work in a quite different way and do something similar to this "3D" effect.

???

Anyone else noticed this? Or am I imagining things? :scratchch


* That Distortion is an SH-6, in a guitar with a Floyd. So I, guess what, raised the poles on the high E and B strings a fair bit more than I normally would to compensate. Which would tie in with what I seem to be noticing here.....

 

[Mad Raxz]

Re: Getting that "vowel-y" lead sound/pole height notes

I love to raise the poles to match the fretboard radius as closely as possible, I use stews gauges http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/S...dius_Gauges.html?actn=100101&xst=3&xsr=275322

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Getting that "vowel-y" lead sound/pole height notes

Altering the polepiece heights on a conventional humbucker changes the volume from the screw coil relative to the stud coil. The slight imbalance between the signal induced by each coil might introduce partial comb filtering, hence, the apparent wah effect.

 

[Mad Raxz]

Re: Getting that "vowel-y" lead sound/pole height notes

mmmmmh...... that's why I like it; the comb effect. Thanx for this thread Varg.
I start with fretboard radius and then use my ears and just nudge them here n there, quarter turns, maybe less, maybe a tad more.

 

[Varg]

Re: Getting that "vowel-y" lead sound/pole height notes

Hmmmm, comb filtering eh? I'll have to look into this a bit more!

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Getting that "vowel-y" lead sound/pole height notes

I have noticed that this sound tends to occur when you have two things in parallel (either pickups or coils), and one of them is putting out something significantly different than the other, in terms of tone or in terms of strength. For instance, when one coil is stronger than the other, or when the tone for one pickup is rolled all the way down, and the tone for the other pickup is all the way up. It can even happen with both tones on 10 if one pickup is significantly stronger than the other. I don't know a lot about electronics, but I am guessing it has something to do with certain frequencies from each parallel source stacking on top of each other while other frequencies interact to diminish each other.

 

[dvadneau]

Re: Getting that "vowel-y" lead sound/pole height notes

I don't know a lot about electronics, but I am guessing it has something to do with certain frequencies from each parallel source stacking on top of each other while other frequencies interact to diminish each other.

Intentional or not, good description of a comb filter.

 

[Dex_Dexter]

Re: Getting that "vowel-y" lead sound/pole height notes

You know what I mean, when you hit a note in a solo and it goes "waaaah" without a wah pedal.
....
So I tried raising the poles on the bridge side and...there we go, the vowely-y tone is there!

I just tried this with an old DiMarzio Super Distortion and guess what:
The vowel-y lead sound which I was missing is there!
Many thanks for the hint!

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Getting that "vowel-y" lead sound/pole height notes

Intentional or not, good description of a comb filter.

Ha. Thanks. I was basically visualizing it as I heard it, but didn't know how to express it in electronic terms.

 

[King IzzO)))]

Re: Getting that "vowel-y" lead sound/pole height notes

Middle position with pickups OOP and tone rolled down on the neck, sounds straight up like a wah, freaking awesome.

 

[Varg]

Re: Getting that "vowel-y" lead sound/pole height notes

Middle position with pickups OOP and tone rolled down on the neck, sounds straight up like a wah, freaking awesome.

Same thing with my 3 pup Black Beauty - bridge and middle, with the middle lowered to a certain height.

 

[Varg]

Re: Getting that "vowel-y" lead sound/pole height notes

I just tried this with an old DiMarzio Super Distortion and guess what:
The vowel-y lead sound which I was missing is there!
Many thanks for the hint!

Awesome, I wondered if anyone would try this and find it worked! :1:

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: Getting that "vowel-y" lead sound/pole height notes

What type of vowel-y sound? I am thinking of something similar Brian May's lead tones, like on Bohemian Rhapsody or Killer Queen. Close? I can get that real easily on my telecaster by running the stock neck pup with a SD Tele Hot Rails, 500K pots, in parallel (via 4-way switch). I get vowel-wah sounds with that.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Getting that "vowel-y" lead sound/pole height notes

I'm not saying it does or doesn't, but overall, I think the effect from the poles is very subtle compared to the nature of the pup's winding.

Not necessarily my thing as tone goes. But I had a PAF Pro that was ALL about that. And it was like that when the poles were perfectly flat.

So while I don't doubt or nay say the pole theory (maybe specific pups & poles interact), I know pups will do it without them being raised.

 

[dazco]

Re: Getting that "vowel-y" lead sound/pole height notes

tried it with a super dist...no go.

 

[Dex_Dexter]

Re: Getting that "vowel-y" lead sound/pole height notes

So while I don't doubt or nay say the pole theory (maybe specific pups & poles interact), I know pups will do it without them being raised.

All my humbuckers which have one adjustable row do have that sound with the screws set in normal position. My Ibanez V2 (Destroyer) which has two rows of hexagonal screws has it with both row in nornal position. Interestingly the magentic pull of both rows is different on this pickup.
But the Super Distortion does not have it unless I raise one row of the hexagonal screws. It responds to that really well.
Furthermore I noticed that none of my humbuckers with non-adjustable pole pieces does have the vowel-y sound.
It looks like there has to be some asymmetry in order to deliver that sound.
Experimenting with pickups is really interesting, but very time-consuming.

 

[King IzzO)))]

Re: Getting that "vowel-y" lead sound/pole height notes

Which row are you guys raising higher than the other?

 

[Dex_Dexter]

Re: Getting that "vowel-y" lead sound/pole height notes

Which row are you guys raising higher than the other?

I set the bridge-side row about 1 mm higher.
The effect occurs when picking hard and/or bending strings. It is a subtle effect which is far from the intensity of a wah pedal, but IMO it emphasizes the expression. It is not a static effect like a cocked wah pedal. I love that tone.

 

[lazyfinger]

Re: Getting that "vowel-y" lead sound/pole height notes

I'm not saying it does or doesn't, but overall, I think the effect from the poles is very subtle compared to the nature of the pup's winding.

Not necessarily my thing as tone goes. But I had a PAF Pro that was ALL about that. And it was like that when the poles were perfectly flat.

So while I don't doubt or nay say the pole theory (maybe specific pups & poles interact), I know pups will do it without them being raised.

+1

It's something that happens with a middy pup in a middy guitar. I used to get that a lot with a JB in a SG, or Fred (similar to PAF Pro) in a Strat. I didn't get that vowel-y sound with the Custom in a LP.

 

[King IzzO)))]

Re: Getting that "vowel-y" lead sound/pole height notes

Ha, tried it on several pickups last night, so dumb, but it works.