Gibson Last straw...
- Thread starter BloodRose
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octavedoctor
New member
Re: Gibson Last straw...
The nuts on Les Pauls are all set very deeply and extremely securely attached; the base of the slot nearly always goes below the lacquer line on all US made models which means an annoying retouch job when you get the new one in. It's hard to get them out in one piece especially as the material they are made of - which looks like compressed gypsum to me - is quite friable.
The nuts on Les Pauls are all set very deeply and extremely securely attached; the base of the slot nearly always goes below the lacquer line on all US made models which means an annoying retouch job when you get the new one in. It's hard to get them out in one piece especially as the material they are made of - which looks like compressed gypsum to me - is quite friable.
Zhangliqun
Questionologist
Re: Gibson Last straw...
I love Gibson, I'm a Gibson crack-ho.
Some of their guitars are dogs, no question, I've bumped into a few and for the money, you would think the QC would be better than it is, particularly on the fretwork. And it should be, no question.
That said, if you find a righteous one, there's nothing like it made by anyone anywhere. Ever.
Thus my position is that as a whole, gripes about Gibson are half truth, half sour grapes.
I love Gibson, I'm a Gibson crack-ho.
Some of their guitars are dogs, no question, I've bumped into a few and for the money, you would think the QC would be better than it is, particularly on the fretwork. And it should be, no question.
That said, if you find a righteous one, there's nothing like it made by anyone anywhere. Ever.
Thus my position is that as a whole, gripes about Gibson are half truth, half sour grapes.
Vasshu the humanoid typhoon
Unseen
Re: Gibson Last straw...
Took out an old one, the last time I was at my other job, did not have that deep slot, it was like they used to make them....
Yeah the material is brittle and strange.
What kind of bleeding mind comes up with such a sollution??
Took out an old one, the last time I was at my other job, did not have that deep slot, it was like they used to make them....
Yeah the material is brittle and strange.
KeeperOS
Active member
Re: Gibson Last straw...
First off let me say that I actually agree with the 2nd part, half ARE sour grapes, no doubt about it.
However, if you don't mind, let us analyze the first part.
A righteous Gibson can be better than anything built by anyone.
How about those Gibsons built at the Kalamazoo factory? They were/are Gibsons alright.
Now, I'm pretty sure that there must be AT LEAST one "righteous one" that can be even better than SOME other "righteous ones", not built at the Kalamazoo factory, which, although "righteous", are less so...
Now let us take Heritage guitars as a whole. Built at the same factory as those Kalamazoo Gibsons and by the same people for more than a couple decades. Now I am sure that those same people that build THAT afore mentioned "more righteous that the other, less righteous" Gibson, after some more decades of experience in building the exact same guitar, MUST have built AT LEAST one Heritage that is, in fact, more "righteous" than the one they built before as Gibson.
As such, there must be AT LEAST one righteous non-Gibson (a Heritage in this case) that is in fact BETTER than SOME righteous Gibsons.
See where I'm getting at?
First off let me say that I actually agree with the 2nd part, half ARE sour grapes, no doubt about it.
However, if you don't mind, let us analyze the first part.
A righteous Gibson can be better than anything built by anyone.
How about those Gibsons built at the Kalamazoo factory? They were/are Gibsons alright.
Now, I'm pretty sure that there must be AT LEAST one "righteous one" that can be even better than SOME other "righteous ones", not built at the Kalamazoo factory, which, although "righteous", are less so...
Now let us take Heritage guitars as a whole. Built at the same factory as those Kalamazoo Gibsons and by the same people for more than a couple decades. Now I am sure that those same people that build THAT afore mentioned "more righteous that the other, less righteous" Gibson, after some more decades of experience in building the exact same guitar, MUST have built AT LEAST one Heritage that is, in fact, more "righteous" than the one they built before as Gibson.
As such, there must be AT LEAST one righteous non-Gibson (a Heritage in this case) that is in fact BETTER than SOME righteous Gibsons.
See where I'm getting at?
KeeperOS
Active member
Re: Gibson Last straw...
And, to put it simply, I'll repeat myself and say that if there is one man, ANY man that can do/build something then there is AT LEAST one other (and in truth, numerous others) that can in fact do/build the exact same thing AT LEAST as good (and in fact, more than likely, BETTER).
This, in my mind, is a UNIVERSAL TRUTH, a part of human history, nay, of human nature.
Trust me when I say that once you've fully accepted that fact as an undoubted truth the entire world takes a new shape in your eyes and you're anyone's "ho" no more...
And, to put it simply, I'll repeat myself and say that if there is one man, ANY man that can do/build something then there is AT LEAST one other (and in truth, numerous others) that can in fact do/build the exact same thing AT LEAST as good (and in fact, more than likely, BETTER).
This, in my mind, is a UNIVERSAL TRUTH, a part of human history, nay, of human nature.
Trust me when I say that once you've fully accepted that fact as an undoubted truth the entire world takes a new shape in your eyes and you're anyone's "ho" no more...
Fikealox
New member
Re: Gibson Last straw...
Since you want to get (oddly) philosophical about it, I'm sure you can see the contradiction inherent in the stronger version of your claim; ie, "there's always someone better". That is, the contradiction that inheres in claiming that there can be an infinite heirachy of proficiency amongst a finite population.
A more potent point (and one someone might've already made) would be to say that preference in guitars come down to personal taste. Once you get past quality control issues, what constitutes an awesome guitar for one person doesn't necessarily for another. For instance, I don't like certain vintage strats that many others revere, simply because I don't like vintage radii or small frets. That said, I wouldn't take the risk on a Gibson because other companies make LP and SG-style guitars with specs more to my liking, and with a much greater degree of reliability in their quality control.
Since you want to get (oddly) philosophical about it, I'm sure you can see the contradiction inherent in the stronger version of your claim; ie, "there's always someone better". That is, the contradiction that inheres in claiming that there can be an infinite heirachy of proficiency amongst a finite population.
A more potent point (and one someone might've already made) would be to say that preference in guitars come down to personal taste. Once you get past quality control issues, what constitutes an awesome guitar for one person doesn't necessarily for another. For instance, I don't like certain vintage strats that many others revere, simply because I don't like vintage radii or small frets. That said, I wouldn't take the risk on a Gibson because other companies make LP and SG-style guitars with specs more to my liking, and with a much greater degree of reliability in their quality control.
KeeperOS
Active member
Re: Gibson Last straw...
Ok, define finite population; do you mean including both the past and (until we know otherwise) all future generations?
As for the infinity of the hierarchy of proficiency part, I guess the limits pretty much lie in the very limitation of the human nature and/or ingenuity. If at some point we reach the point where any and all of our sensory systems augmented to the maximum of our abilities (including using artificial means created by us) cannot possibly detect/understand a difference in quality then yes, that's pretty much as good as something can go because even if it were to get better we wouldn't be able to tell...:9:
However I seriously doubt we have already gotten to that point
As for the personal taste point, I'm not debating whether someone could build something that would seem better by virtue of being different to the eyes of a subjective observer, that goes without saying.
I'm talking about taking something of (for our purposes) subjective quality and based on the very same things that made it good, enhance it and make it better.
Now if someone feels that a bridge placed at the wrong position for correct temperament or badly cut/placed frets and/or nut constitute subjective preference then I guess all bets are off
Ok, define finite population; do you mean including both the past and (until we know otherwise) all future generations?
As for the infinity of the hierarchy of proficiency part, I guess the limits pretty much lie in the very limitation of the human nature and/or ingenuity. If at some point we reach the point where any and all of our sensory systems augmented to the maximum of our abilities (including using artificial means created by us) cannot possibly detect/understand a difference in quality then yes, that's pretty much as good as something can go because even if it were to get better we wouldn't be able to tell...:9:
However I seriously doubt we have already gotten to that point
As for the personal taste point, I'm not debating whether someone could build something that would seem better by virtue of being different to the eyes of a subjective observer, that goes without saying.
I'm talking about taking something of (for our purposes) subjective quality and based on the very same things that made it good, enhance it and make it better.
Now if someone feels that a bridge placed at the wrong position for correct temperament or badly cut/placed frets and/or nut constitute subjective preference then I guess all bets are off
JB_From_Hell
Jomo's Nimions
Re: Gibson Last straw...
And furthermore, if you were buying a high end automobile, would you be ok if the paint had bubbles, the radio didn't work, or the alignment was out of whack? Of course not. All of those things are unacceptable in a cheaper car, let alone an expensive one.
Maybe not a flaw, but rather indicative of carelessness and disregard at a price point where those should be pretty high priorities, don't you think?
Well.... when we're talking used gear, I'll totally overlook nicks and dings on a particularly nice instrument. However, if a company like Schecter can make guitars in the $500-ish range that are nearly flawless, what excuse does Gibson have for crooked tuners, sloppily drilled holes, finish bleed into the binding, and poorly cut nuts?
And furthermore, if you were buying a high end automobile, would you be ok if the paint had bubbles, the radio didn't work, or the alignment was out of whack? Of course not. All of those things are unacceptable in a cheaper car, let alone an expensive one.
Fender_Punk
BerriesAndCreamologist
Re: Gibson Last straw...
Bloodrose I agree with you man, totally. Why buy a Gibson when Tokai, Edwards, Warmoth and Michael Kelly are doing better jobs making the same/similar guitars at lower prices?
btw, what would be the re-sale price of a Tokai Explorer with the weird-shaped 3-on-a-side headstock? I saw one in a hock shop the other day, thought about picking it up to turn around
Bloodrose I agree with you man, totally. Why buy a Gibson when Tokai, Edwards, Warmoth and Michael Kelly are doing better jobs making the same/similar guitars at lower prices?
btw, what would be the re-sale price of a Tokai Explorer with the weird-shaped 3-on-a-side headstock? I saw one in a hock shop the other day, thought about picking it up to turn around
wanmei1
New member
Re: Gibson Last straw...
Look just stop bashing Gibson guitars !
Most people I know think your really cool if you own a Gibson and they respect you for it !
Who is going to respect you and think your cool if you own a less expensive brand ?
How do you think I feel reading these hurtfull comments after just having paid out thousands of dollars for my Gibson only for you guys to tell me that there are equal or better guitars for a lot less ?
I feel like a fool and I don't like it and whats more I don' believe you !
Gibson have got to be the best otherwise they wouldn't be so famous and have respect from a lot of people right ? - and besides famous people play Gibsons right ?
If you walk into a guitar store to buy a guitar the sales staff will all tell you that Gibsons are better than the cheaper brands !
If you buy a Gibson it means your committed to playing music and that your a serious musician !
The wood , the pots and caps, the switch and jack are all better on a Gibson !
Give us serious musicians a break and stop trying to make us feel like fools for having paid a lot of money for a famous Gibson brand guitar.
Zak Wylde doesn't play a Heritage or whatever cause he's serious about music !
You guys are just so jealous cause you can't afford a Gibson or your not really into music like I am.
Look just stop bashing Gibson guitars !
Most people I know think your really cool if you own a Gibson and they respect you for it !
Who is going to respect you and think your cool if you own a less expensive brand ?
How do you think I feel reading these hurtfull comments after just having paid out thousands of dollars for my Gibson only for you guys to tell me that there are equal or better guitars for a lot less ?
I feel like a fool and I don't like it and whats more I don' believe you !
Gibson have got to be the best otherwise they wouldn't be so famous and have respect from a lot of people right ? - and besides famous people play Gibsons right ?
If you walk into a guitar store to buy a guitar the sales staff will all tell you that Gibsons are better than the cheaper brands !
If you buy a Gibson it means your committed to playing music and that your a serious musician !
The wood , the pots and caps, the switch and jack are all better on a Gibson !
Give us serious musicians a break and stop trying to make us feel like fools for having paid a lot of money for a famous Gibson brand guitar.
Zak Wylde doesn't play a Heritage or whatever cause he's serious about music !
You guys are just so jealous cause you can't afford a Gibson or your not really into music like I am.
JB_From_Hell
Jomo's Nimions
Re: Gibson Last straw...
Since I don't know you very well, I must ask.... are you being serious?
Since I don't know you very well, I must ask.... are you being serious?
The Golden Boy
Fleecy Sweaterologist
Re: Gibson Last straw...
This is another of my guitars. It's a Gibson too. It's horribly overpriced. I own it. It's fun to play.
This is another of my guitars. It's a Gibson too. It's horribly overpriced. I own it. It's fun to play.
Zhangliqun
Questionologist
Re: Gibson Last straw...
I got kind of dizzy reading through all that and trying to understand it. Still don't totally.
FWIW, I didn't say nobody else could build a righteous guitar. Just that a righteous Gibson has a flavor nobody else can duplicate, and if you gotta have that flavor, there's only one game in town. Other guitars can be and often are quite righteous, just not in the same way.
I got kind of dizzy reading through all that and trying to understand it. Still don't totally.
FWIW, I didn't say nobody else could build a righteous guitar. Just that a righteous Gibson has a flavor nobody else can duplicate, and if you gotta have that flavor, there's only one game in town. Other guitars can be and often are quite righteous, just not in the same way.
KeeperOS
Active member
Re: Gibson Last straw...
Ok, put simply, the Kalamazoo guys built Gibsons and I'm pretty sure that at least some of them had that "unique" flavor.
Now I'd find it EXTREMELY hard to believe that when they resumed building the exact same guitars under the Heritage moniker their guitars suddenly acquired a different flavor. I'd be willing to bet that at least some of them are identical in every good way (including that "flavor") to the best axes they had built while being a part of Gibson. I mean, other than the politics (and that name on the headstock) NOTHING else changed.
So, if there are at least some people other than Gibson that can build a guitar that looks, feels and sounds EXACTLY like a Gibson then I don't see a reason why there couldn't be other people as well that could duplicate that, retain all the GOOD things about them, all the "flavor", and even improve on where Gibson falls short.
Ok, put simply, the Kalamazoo guys built Gibsons and I'm pretty sure that at least some of them had that "unique" flavor.
Now I'd find it EXTREMELY hard to believe that when they resumed building the exact same guitars under the Heritage moniker their guitars suddenly acquired a different flavor. I'd be willing to bet that at least some of them are identical in every good way (including that "flavor") to the best axes they had built while being a part of Gibson. I mean, other than the politics (and that name on the headstock) NOTHING else changed.
So, if there are at least some people other than Gibson that can build a guitar that looks, feels and sounds EXACTLY like a Gibson then I don't see a reason why there couldn't be other people as well that could duplicate that, retain all the GOOD things about them, all the "flavor", and even improve on where Gibson falls short.
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