Gibson Last straw...

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Re: Gibson Last straw...

Look just stop bashing Gibson guitars !
Who is going to respect you and think your cool if you own a less expensive brand ?
How do you think I feel reading these hurtfull comments after just having paid out thousands of dollars for my Gibson only for you guys to tell me that there are equal or better guitars for a lot less ?

1) They're not going to stop bashing Gibson. I won't bash, but I'll still point out that for what I paid for my Schecter C-1 Classic versus a comparable Gibson (which there isn't one since none seem to come stock with Jazz/JB and 5-way switching), I paid less for more. My friend and jamming partner owns both an American Stratocaster Reissue (forgot year) or American Standard (forgot which), and also a Gibson. He paid four figures. I can't see why, and he said that he actually appreciated my Schecter, but oh well. To each his own.

2) Who's going to respect me if I own a cheaper but equally good (or better) guitar? A lot of people. You'll find a lot of them here on this forum, and some also on this thread bashing Gibson. Why would you ask such a question? Personally, I play what I like, not what other people respect. Both my axes, for example, are made in (south) Korea. I don't care if they're not hand made: they sound great, feel great, work for me, and aren't four figures in price. To each his own.

3) I'd think that if you paid four figures for your Gibson and you're reading these comments, you'd reconsider why you chose your instrument. I don't know why you chose it, but the main point is play what you like. If you truly bought your Gibson because you wanted it, and it rocks your world, then more power to you. But Gibson isn't for everyone, just like Fender, Schecter, etc, are not for everyone. For example, I practically worship Fender, but not every guitar they make rocks my world. In fact, I just got done telling a friend today that when Fender picks humbuckers, it seems that usually they're horribly warm, to the point of being muddy, as if Fender is trying to compensate for something. That doesn't mean I don't still love Fender, it just means that not every guitar they make is right for me.

While I can say I got a good deal, Schecter C-1 Classic compared to a comparable Gibson Les Paul, Les Pauls are nice. They're just too rich for my blood, and too much money for what I'm getting. In short, they're not right for me. But they must be right for other people. You need to stop caring about what people think about your favorite products. For example, not everyone likes Seymour Duncan, but the important thing is that I do, therefore I buy their stuff.
 
Re: Gibson Last straw...

Look just stop bashing Gibson guitars !
Most people I know think your really cool if you own a Gibson and they respect you for it !
Who is going to respect you and think your cool if you own a less expensive brand ?
How do you think I feel reading these hurtfull comments after just having paid out thousands of dollars for my Gibson only for you guys to tell me that there are equal or better guitars for a lot less ?
I feel like a fool and I don't like it and whats more I don' believe you !
Gibson have got to be the best otherwise they wouldn't be so famous and have respect from a lot of people right ? - and besides famous people play Gibsons right ?
If you walk into a guitar store to buy a guitar the sales staff will all tell you that Gibsons are better than the cheaper brands !
If you buy a Gibson it means your committed to playing music and that your a serious musician !
The wood , the pots and caps, the switch and jack are all better on a Gibson !
Give us serious musicians a break and stop trying to make us feel like fools for having paid a lot of money for a famous Gibson brand guitar.
Zak Wylde doesn't play a Heritage or whatever cause he's serious about music !
You guys are just so jealous cause you can't afford a Gibson or your not really into music like I am.

Brilliant! :D
 
Re: Gibson Last straw...

I guess I am a big dummy for buying Gibson guitars.

I guess I am a big dummy because I can afford Gibson guitars.

I honestly don't care what anyone else can afford, what anyone else chooses to buy or what anyone else thinks about what I do with my time and money. This entire thread is pretty silly IMHO.

What I do know is that it takes a lot of emotional energy to get a thread to 8 pages and I am wondering what is the catalyst for all of this energy from some of you. I cannot afford to date a supermodel or drive an Italian sportscar but you don't see me filling up the internet with complaints about it. I am happy with the average woman and vehicle that I have so I don't complain that the "good stuff" is too expensive.

People that are happy rarely complain about anything.
 
Re: Gibson Last straw...

I guess I am a big dummy for buying Gibson guitars.

I guess I am a big dummy because I can afford Gibson guitars.

I honestly don't care what anyone else can afford, what anyone else chooses to buy or what anyone else thinks about what I do with my time and money. This entire thread is pretty silly IMHO.

What I do know is that it takes a lot of emotional energy to get a thread to 8 pages and I am wondering what is the catalyst for all of this energy from some of you. I cannot afford to date a supermodel or drive an Italian sportscar but you don't see me filling up the internet with complaints about it. I am happy with the average woman and vehicle that I have so I don't complain that the "good stuff" is too expensive.

People that are happy rarely complain about anything.

Robert,
Good points.
My purpose of the thread was not to bash Gibson owners, I own 2. And Ill admit that they are magic when you find the right one. My whole point is why the prices are jumping so much, when the consistency seems to be waning. (Ill use the word consistancy here instead of quality.) IMO, anything over $1000 should be top notch. and when you are talking the $3000-on up that Gibsons are becoming, there should NEVER be a clunker on the wall. Then when Gibson runs ads like what I saw, where it is emphasizing only collectible value, rather than great playability and tone, it saddens me.

I still want to believe that Gibsons ARE the standard of which a hundred knockoffs strive to be, but when I pick them up and find blemishes, then pick up other brands for MUCH less and note that the frets seem better, they have tonepros, duncans and better features and better fit and finish, topped off by the ad that seems the only interest is milking the name, I felt compelled to say something..

Im an honest guy, so yeah, I'll admit that I wish I had the financial resources for some top line gear. (my most expensive axe was $800) Ive worked 2-3 jobs for many years to keep food on the table for my 5 kids. So yeah, the high prices discourage me. BUT.. I have enough guitars, that if I found a piece of magical wood, I could sell some pieces and fund it.. Ive not been impressed by the expensive offerings of this brand.
Again, I have 2 Gibsons, and am fond of both, but LOVE one. So my points are not sour grapes as some have mentioned. My points are just wondering why they keep climbing so rapidly and why they push only the investment properties.

One last point and then I will conclude my ranting here..

I was reading the def lep interview in the new Guitar World and Viv Campbell said this when asked about his gear:
(Ill edit so I dont get banned but he used expletives)

"Ive been playing Les Pauls, but I hate to give any press to the *freaking Gibson *freaking guitar company because they're a pain. Gibson as a guitar company is just really on the slide. They're not really supportive of their artists, but I just happen to really love playing Les Pauls."

I love mine too, and to me, there is nothing much better than a paul thru a cranked Marshall. (I grew up a major Kiss fan) I love the paul tone and playablity. Again, Im just saddened by the actions of the company.

Ok, rant over.. thank you...

Ill stop fueling this wildfire
 
Re: Gibson Last straw...

Robert,
Good points.
My purpose of the thread was not to bash Gibson owners, I own 2. And Ill admit that they are magic when you find the right one. My whole point is why the prices are jumping so much, when the consistency seems to be waning. (Ill use the word consistancy here instead of quality.) IMO, anything over $1000 should be top notch. and when you are talking the $3000-on up that Gibsons are becoming, there should NEVER be a clunker on the wall. Then when Gibson runs ads like what I saw, where it is emphasizing only collectible value, rather than great playability and tone, it saddens me.

I still want to believe that Gibsons ARE the standard of which a hundred knockoffs strive to be, but when I pick them up and find blemishes, then pick up other brands for MUCH less and note that the frets seem better, they have tonepros, duncans and better features and better fit and finish, topped off by the ad that seems the only interest is milking the name, I felt compelled to say something..

Im an honest guy, so yeah, I'll admit that I wish I had the financial resources for some top line gear. (my most expensive axe was $800) Ive worked 2-3 jobs for many years to keep food on the table for my 5 kids. So yeah, the high prices discourage me. BUT.. I have enough guitars, that if I found a piece of magical wood, I could sell some pieces and fund it.. Ive not been impressed by the expensive offerings of this brand.
Again, I have 2 Gibsons, and am fond of both, but LOVE one. So my points are not sour grapes as some have mentioned. My points are just wondering why they keep climbing so rapidly and why they push only the investment properties.

One last point and then I will conclude my ranting here..

I was reading the def lep interview in the new Guitar World and Viv Campbell said this when asked about his gear:
(Ill edit so I dont get banned but he used expletives)

"Ive been playing Les Pauls, but I hate to give any press to the *freaking Gibson *freaking guitar company because they're a pain. Gibson as a guitar company is just really on the slide. They're not really supportive of their artists, but I just happen to really love playing Les Pauls."

I love mine too, and to me, there is nothing much better than a paul thru a cranked Marshall. (I grew up a major Kiss fan) I love the paul tone and playablity. Again, Im just saddened by the actions of the company.

Ok, rant over.. thank you...

Ill stop fueling this wildfire

+1
I too own a Gibson and love it but some of the the asian guitars are getting awfully close and the quality of Gibsons has been going down hill for quite a while now. Gibsons are now way, way overpriced.
I also own an Epiphone that with a few standard mods ( including pickup change ) is just about on par with the Gibson and I consider my Gibson to be a lot better than most being produced today .
And that my friends is the frightening reality of todays Gibsons.
 
Re: Gibson Last straw...

IMO the problem (kinda what Vivian Campbell tried to say) is that A LOT of people confuse (today's) Gibson with their offerings (particularly the Les Paul).

I think the Gibson of today has nothing to do with the guys that some fifty (or so) years ago designed and built those guitars. Today's Gibson does nothing more than to milk on those designs and the name those guys made because of them.

I mean, if someone thinks that by bashing TODAY'S Gibson, the company, you bash the Les Paul or whatnot then there's obviously been some kind of a misunderstanding.
 
Re: Gibson Last straw...

IMO the problem (kinda what Vivian Campbell tried to say) is that A LOT of people confuse (today's) Gibson with their offerings (particularly the Les Paul).

I think the Gibson of today has nothing to do with the guys that some fifty (or so) years ago designed and built those guitars. Today's Gibson does nothing more than to milk on those designs and the name those guys made because of them.

I mean, if someone thinks that by bashing TODAY'S Gibson, the company, you bash the Les Paul or whatnot then there's obviously been some kind of a misunderstanding.

I think the guitars being made in the past 15 years or so are generally "better" than the guitars made 20-35+ years ago.
 
Re: Gibson Last straw...

But what about those made about 48-52 years ago?

Generally, the Gibson electrics made 43-57 or so years ago are generally regarded among the "best" for a variety of different reasons. I'd tend to agree with what I've had my hands on and owned. Since even student model guitars from that period are prohibitively expensive these days- I'd prefer a "newer" Gibson than most anything produced in the Norlin era.

That's generally speaking.
 
Re: Gibson Last straw...

I think the Gibson of today has nothing to do with the guys that some fifty (or so) years ago designed and built those guitars. Today's Gibson does nothing more than to milk on those designs and the name those guys made because of them.

A super-popular design that the guitar-buying public still can't get enough of, and they're milking it? You think they should stop making Les Pauls?

People do tend to continue to use successful formulas, like eating and breathing. Over the years, Gibson has tried newfangled designs but the public keeps saying, no, give us the classics, that's what we know you and love you for. The market has spoken, and any business ignores it at its peril.

keeper said:
I mean, if someone thinks that by bashing TODAY'S Gibson, the company, you bash the Les Paul or whatnot then there's obviously been some kind of a misunderstanding.

I don't think there's any confusion at all because some of the Gibsons today are every bit as good as the originals, I don't care what anyone says. And hey, some of the originals were dogs too.
 
Re: Gibson Last straw...

A super-popular design that the guitar-buying public still can't get enough of, and they're milking it? You think they should stop making Les Pauls?
OK man, are you actually actively TRYING to misunderstand what I'm saying?
I can't explain it otherwise. It's one thing to proudly and responsibly continue a legacy of half a century and an entirely different matter to simply milk every last bit of it with no regard to what this means. You can figure the specifics out yourself...
I don't think there's any confusion at all because some of the Gibsons today are every bit as good as the originals, I don't care what anyone says. And hey, some of the originals were dogs too.
Look man, 50 years ago everything had to be made by hand. EVERYTHING.
When one man builds the same thing 50-100 times one cannot expect to get it exactly the same EVERY time. Let alone when there are 50-100 different people building it so, yeah, I guess it would come as no surprise how some would be dogs too.
But today, the technology and the manufacture methods and procedures exist so that it IS possible to build 50-100 the same thing and it still be identical every time. Just look at a Carvin or sth.
So no man, while those guys some 50 years ago were expected to actually shell out some dogs along with their gems today's Gibson doesn't have that excuse.

For instance they certainly have NO excuse for just sanding, cutting and gluing the necks/neckpockets by hand without taking ANY kind of measurement AT ALL, not for the thickness, not even for the neck-to-body angle, so, yeah, you get the idea...
 
Re: Gibson Last straw...

This is a bass. It was made by Gibson. Gibson is milking the profits off this bass.

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It's also older than most people on this forum. That means it's worth a lot of money, even if it played and sounded like crap. Gibson has assured me of that.

normal_birdhead.jpg
 
Re: Gibson Last straw...

I guess I am a big dummy for buying Gibson guitars.

I guess I am a big dummy because I can afford Gibson guitars.

I honestly don't care what anyone else can afford, what anyone else chooses to buy or what anyone else thinks about what I do with my time and money. This entire thread is pretty silly IMHO.

What I do know is that it takes a lot of emotional energy to get a thread to 8 pages and I am wondering what is the catalyst for all of this energy from some of you. I cannot afford to date a supermodel or drive an Italian sportscar but you don't see me filling up the internet with complaints about it. I am happy with the average woman and vehicle that I have so I don't complain that the "good stuff" is too expensive.

People that are happy rarely complain about anything.

Voice of reason
 
Re: Gibson Last straw...

This is a bass. It was made by Gibson. Gibson is milking the profits off this bass.

It's also older than most people on this forum. That means it's worth a lot of money, even if it played and sounded like crap. Gibson has assured me of that.

Not sure whether I should laugh or simply shake my head.
In any case, when I try to present my view with logical and, in my opinion, valid arguments and I am replied with sarcasm and attempts of being ridiculed on then I know it is time for me to just let it go and move on...
 
Re: Gibson Last straw...

Just today a friend of mine asked me to go with him and look for a guitar he wanted to buy.
He basically can only strum some so he asked me to do all the testing...

Completely opposite to me he's a total brand whore (which he fully admits himself so, no comment) and he asked me to go and see some Fenders, some Gibson and just for the sake of it, also take a look at the brands I'd suggest him.
The man had more or less set his sights on the BFG Les Paul and the Vixen Les Paul.
I don't know about there but here, the BFG costs about 1100€ (i.e. 1750 USD) and the Vixen 1700€ (i.e. 2700USD).

So, we went to those (two) stores that I KNOW each pay an employee at the dealers so that they can have first pick on every new shipment (a.k.a. they get to get the best each shipment has, leaving the dogs for the rest...).
Particularly for the Vixen, the guy literally told us that he tried EVERY Vixen the dealer had brought and hand picked the very best one.

So, from the hand selected "best" might I remind you, the BFG had an entire piece missing from the top, right next to the neck (which from what I can tell happens often since I've seen photos on the net being exactly the same way) while the, otherwise very sweet sounding, Vixen (which he seemed to prefer), for an almost 2000€ (or 3000$ guitar) had frets that were completely square (and let's not talk about fret ends now). It's as if they simply installed them at the factory, leveled them and out the door it went...
And now, the thing about the Vixen is that it DOESN'T have a tune-o-matic but a wraparound bridge with pre-set intonation so not only will a proper fret job will be an extra cost that shouldn't be in the first place but there's also the risk of the intonation going slightly off with it as well...

Then, we went to check a couple of Michael Kelly Patriots, the Shadow and the Custom.
All I could say was OMG!
For a mere 500€ (or 800 USD) not only was everything (and I DO mean EVERYTHING) spot on, not only were the guitars perfectly set-up right from the factory (the guy told me he merely took them out of the box and hanged them) but those frets were the smoothest, silkiest feeling frets I've ever felt on ANY guitar (well, except maybe some Carvins and Taylors).
I'm talking silky smooth; and fret ends? They weren't JUST filed, they were actually ROUNDED. I can honestly say I had never seen that before. And it was like that on every Michael Kelly I put my hands on.

OK, I can't help it so here it goes:
Michael Kelly has their guitars built in Korea which explains the much lower cost but unless I'm mistaken they are setup and QCed in the US.

Now I can accept Gibsons being much more expensive on account of being built from start to finish in the US but if the Michael Kelly guys for a 500€ per guitar can run such an amazingly tight QC that lets virtually NO dogs whatsoever leave their doors I can't help but wonder why can't Gibson do the same for guitars almost 3 and a half times the cost...
 
Re: Gibson Last straw...

I always remember being told as a student guitar maker that in the Renaissance a musician buying a Lute was a purchase comparable to that of a present day rock star buying a private jet...

And look at what the first computers & VCR's cost. Now 25 years later you can buy infinitely better ones at a fraction of the cost...so what's your point? Times change. Innovations, technology, demand, nothing stands still.

No justification for Gibson being priced twice as high as they should be. In this economy, a guitar may be worth "what it does for you", but that warm, fuzzy feeling sure doesn't help with the house payment & high gas prices. A lot fewer were people will be paying $3,000 or $4,000 on a guitar when they're struggling to pay their bills every month. Wives will take a dim view of this when you're late making the rent, and that is a motivator to spend less on "fun" stuff. They'll be a lot of expensive guitars hanging on racks in music stores collecting dust. Reality: high end guitar makers will have to rethink their pricing. In a boomng economy, people can throw money around and indulge themselves. Those days are over for a while for most of us.
 
Re: Gibson Last straw...

In a boomng economy, people can throw money around and indulge themselves. Those days are over for a while for most of us.

All well and good (and I agree) but REALITY: we are not Gibson (or PRS USA , or Hamer USA, or similar companies) target market. Haven't been in Gibson's case for 20 years. I think consumers need to realize and get over this frustrating but very apparent (and important) business fact.
 
Re: Gibson Last straw...

Not sure whether I should laugh or simply shake my head.
In any case, when I try to present my view with logical and, in my opinion, valid arguments and I am replied with sarcasm and attempts of being ridiculed on then I know it is time for me to just let it go and move on...

That time was about 18 posts ago in this thread for you.
 
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Re: Gibson Last straw...

If you says so man...

Oh, BTW, it's funny how you actually have that quote from Slash2987 in your sig.
Obviously you think what applies to others shouldn't/doesn't apply to you...
 
Re: Gibson Last straw...

If you says so man...

Oh, BTW, it's funny how you actually have that quote from Slash2987 in your sig.
Obviously you think what applies to others shouldn't/doesn't apply to you...

OK "Mr. 21 Ranting Posts In One Thread," I'll keep that under advisement.
 
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