Gibson Last straw...

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Re: Gibson Last straw...

To make you happy, here's a guitar. It's not a Gibson. It's an Epiphone.

But it was made in the Gibson factory in Kalamazoo out of old growth mahogany and Brazillian Rosewood. It's really old and it's worth a lot of money.

normal_epirocker-3.jpg
 
Re: Gibson Last straw...

I'm having reconstructive surgury next week to have my pen!s relaced by a Gibson VOS Custom Slash Signature Les Paul. Then I'll be the coolest guy in the world.
 
Re: Gibson Last straw...

Americans want the best.

And they want it fast.

And they want it cheap.

Americans want to be paid top dollar for their time and labor...but those same Americans don't want to pay other Americans what their time and labor is worth...unless it's a dentist, doctor or lawyer you're paying because you really need one.

So, because we refuse to support our own labor force by paying other Americans what their time and labor is worth, most guitars (and Levis) are now made somewhere other than the USA.

Buy a used Hamer USA if you want the best, want it fast, and want it (relatively) cheap.

Or buy a Gibson and quit complaining about other Americans making a decent living for their labor...
 
Re: Gibson Last straw...

Good reality check Lew. I am into competitive shooting and the same is true in the gun industry. If its made in America, it is either low quality and affordable, or you pay out the butt for it and get excellent quality. It takes real manufacturing genius to straddle the fence and be successful.

I think what gets people is that once upon a time, in America, workers were more apt to work their ass off for lower pay, and Companies like Gibson turned out masterpieces for relatively low cost. To get that kind of cheap, but dedicated labor now, you do have to go to China, Korea, Indonesia. If American companies would give THOSE workers the HIGH END woods, parts, electronics, and machinery, they could once again crank out superb instruments at affordable prices, but guess what?

No one would buy them because they are "made in China".

We live in a Post-Modern, Post-Industrial country, no doubt about it. It's the natural evolution of any society, although there seems to be this idea that we could regress to our old industrial glory if we wanted to, and we could if we were all willing to work for 12 dollars per week.
 
Re: Gibson Last straw...

I'm having reconstructive surgury next week to have my pen!s relaced by a Gibson VOS Custom Slash Signature Les Paul. Then I'll be the coolest guy in the world.

Guess that gives new meaning to morning wood...??


Golden Boy and Keepersos, boys, please play nice..


Lew,
Good points. But do the Gibson employees get raises as fast as the prices climb?? If so, Im in the wrong biz..

Ok, Im prob gonna make this my last thread to this post.. Ive caused enough trouble.. Ill leave with these images:

Amazing guitar that will prob never be worth more than the $400 I paid for it, but plays/sounds like several times the price:

MichaelKelly3.jpg


Although, I dont care for company practices, I love the 2 I have. I dont expect them to appreciate tho:
2006
LESPAUL1.jpg


2002

G10.jpg
 
Re: Gibson Last straw...

People do tend to continue to use successful formulas, like eating and breathing. Over the years, Gibson has tried newfangled designs but the public keeps saying, no, give us the classics, that's what we know you and love you for. The market has spoken, and any business ignores it at its peril.
.


I disagree.

I think people do want to see Gibson offer some new stuff.

But, as always, Gibson is always one step away from making such designs or concepts perfect.

They had a really nice Superstrat (Soloist style) in the 80's.
Except for the huge set neck heel. Made it a FAIL.

Just recently they offered a new Explorer with a Kahler trem.
"BUT", no locking nut.
It'll fail.
Yeah, you could add the nut yourself.
But, people won't because "It's a Gibson, and it'll lose it value if you mod it".
Again always one step away.

I think it's sad that people treat they're guitars as antique furniture rather than
tools for making new music.

I love my Explorer Pro.
But, to most it's a "fail" because it has a smaller body.
I personally love it.
But, I'm in the minority it seems.
If Gibson came out with a full bodied Pro, it would probably sell like hotcakes.
Of course it would probably cost $2500 instead of $899 though.
 
Re: Gibson Last straw...

I just got to thinking, the OP began the thread complaining about a Gibson ad that didn't mention anything about tone or playability. All it touted was the old Gibson guitars investment potential.

The ad wasn't in Guitar Player, Guitar World , EQ, or even Rolling Stone.

It was in an automobile magazine.

It stands to reason that Gibson wasn't trying to sell a guitar to musicians, but to old, rich dudes who own Porsches and Benzos as toys. Kudos to Gibson for trying to expand their demographic.
 
Re: Gibson Last straw...

I just got to thinking, the OP began the thread complaining about a Gibson ad that didn't mention anything about tone or playability. All it touted was the old Gibson guitars investment potential.

The ad wasn't in Guitar Player, Guitar World , EQ, or even Rolling Stone.

It was in an automobile magazine.

It stands to reason that Gibson wasn't trying to sell a guitar to musicians, but to old, rich dudes who own Porsches and Benzos as toys. Kudos to Gibson for trying to expand their demographic.

True, and I thought about that, but still, cant they think that auto enthusiasts play too? I can see reaching a demographic, but advertise what you are supposed to be, not Tiffanys..
Good point, but I thought they were selling the wrong thing..

One last thing. KHERMAN, I loved the pros too, and had they been regular size, I would have made great sacrifice to get a black one. Now Im gonna have to save for a Hamer
 
Re: Gibson Last straw...

Well, I'm sure that there's auto enthusiasts that play, but we, as guitarist, are in a minority.

As gearheads who care about what a company stands for, we're the minority of a minority.

It's almost like being a Hassidic Jew. Sure, they're out there, but you can't build a large, succesful business on that demographic alone. Especially in times of an economic downturn.
 
Re: Gibson Last straw...

OK "Mr. 21 Ranting Posts In One Thread," I'll keep that under advisement.
To make you happy, here's a guitar. It's not a Gibson. It's an Epiphone.

But it was made in the Gibson factory in Kalamazoo out of old growth mahogany and Brazillian Rosewood. It's really old and it's worth a lot of money.

OK, now you completely lost me, your point(s) being?!?!


And to clarify; I DON'T have a problem paying MORE for something but only as long as I get more in return.

I mean, if I were to pay 3 times the price of a Korean guitar for a US-made guitar I don't think I'm unreasonable to expect everything to be top notch too.
Right?

Not just the wood(s) and hardware but also the work, craftsmanship, attention to detail and finally, a GOOD QC department that makes sure that there won't be any dogs "accidentally" going out their doors.

Is that unreasonable?
I don't think so.

Is that what happens?
I think I already answered that with my previous post about the Vixen and the BFG
(which might I remind you, were hand selected so they couldn't very well have been dogs now could they?)


And now I'm gonna follow BloodRose's advice, play nice (even if someone else doesn't want me to) and just thank my stars that there's Michael Kelly to fill in the gap (or is it the chaotic void) Gibson has created...
 
Re: Gibson Last straw...

Americans want the best.
And they want it fast.
And they want it cheap.
Americans want to be paid top dollar for their time and labor...but those same Americans don't want to pay other Americans what their time and labor is worth...unless it's a dentist, doctor or lawyer you're paying because you really need one.
So, because we refuse to support our own labor force by paying other Americans what their time and labor is worth, most guitars (and Levis) are now made somewhere other than the USA.
Buy a used Hamer USA if you want the best, want it fast, and want it (relatively) cheap.
Or buy a Gibson and quit complaining about other Americans making a decent living for their labor...

I will say that, yes, Americans are addicted to their opulence, and that I agree with you on that sentiment. This goes along with other threads and ideas, but it's also why we can only blame ourselves for the labor market and jobs going overseas: we think we should get paid $20/hr to flip burgers. We want the nicest electronics but as cheaply as possible, so they all come mainly from overseas where they can pay someone $3/hr to make 'em, or even better: use cheap manufacturing machines. Eliminate any QA/QC and you pay even less per item to make. So we basically ceased buying American made (mainly because it was more expensive, which came mainly from how much we like to get paid for the work we do) because we want cheap and fast and good (good enough that is).

I will chime in with the others in that it is a shame that overseas can make just as good, and sometimes strangely better, guitars than in the states. However, the minute I can afford an American Standard Stratocaster, I'll buy one, because I love my country. I just can't afford to love it, I guess, but that's another discussion. I'd buy a Les Paul custom made to my specifications, but at that point I'd be telling them to copy the Schecter C-1 Classic. Instead, I'll have Fender make me one in a Stratocaster body with a two-post tremolo tail, five way switching, etc. But this is mainly because I don't understand how, compared to their American Standard cousins of Fender, Gibson guitars are so more expensive. Fender has a much longer and better reputation, in my opinion, of catering to their customer, but then again I don't know both companies well enough to justify that comment.

Still, for what it's worth, I don't think it's cool that the poorer countries are being paid (i.e. their citizens in factories and whatnot) to make the luxuries of Americans. That seems very unfair. Sure, it provides them jobs, but still, this is too deep a discussion for me.

Anyways, my gripe isn't what I'm getting (Gibson), it's what I'm paying compared to similar American-made offerings from Fender. Both have their overpriced guitars (ironically the Seymour Duncan signature guitar was very expensive), but Gibson's guitars are worse. If $5k was my spending money for the month then I wouldn't be having this discussion, and probably neither would anyone else on here :D
 
Re: Gibson Last straw...

Well, in all fairness a LP-type guitar has a bigger cost-per-unit than a Strat/Tele-type guitar. More species of wood, more/more-complex routing involved and generally, more things to do.
(Just not THAT much more to explain twice or more the price)

Still, yeah, I don't see too many people bashing Fender for being unreasonably expensive or having poorly made products.
I also feel their product lines are more evenly scaled, from solid working horses to collector's items, there are no gaps in-between.

Now, if you have to go the LP (etc) way and you want to buy American there are many US alternatives; From PRS to Warmoth, in between you have from Washburn (a US company I have a great deal of respect for) and Dean to Carvin.

I hardly think you/we're out of choices here...
 
Re: Gibson Last straw...

I'm having reconstructive surgury next week to have my pen!s relaced by a Gibson VOS Custom Slash Signature Les Paul. Then I'll be the coolest guy in the world.
That's less than Nothing !!!
I'm having my penis and testicles replaced by a super limited customised custom, Jimmy Page, Les Paul hand signed with 24k gold plaited Gibson strings !
Then we'll see just who's cool !
p.s Did someone point out that you can buy a pretty nice piano for the same price as a Gibson ?
 
Re: Gibson Last straw...

Well, in all fairness a LP-type guitar has a bigger cost-per-unit than a Strat/Tele-type guitar. More species of wood, more/more-complex routing involved and generally, more things to do.
(Just not THAT much more to explain twice or more the price)

Still, yeah, I don't see too many people bashing Fender for being unreasonably expensive or having poorly made products.
I also feel their product lines are more evenly scaled, from solid working horses to collector's items, there are no gaps in-between.

I think it's halfway accepted wisdom that Fender screws up less guitars than Gibson, and doesn't secretly chamber nor puts in fake bumblebees.

But it is also no question that the Custom Shop Strats and Teles at their current prices are an even bigger rippoff than the Gibson historics (which some say are less of a rippoff than production Gibsons) :)
 
Re: Gibson Last straw...

I honestly cannot comment on custom shop, either Fender or Gibson, as we don't get any of those around these parts of the world.

I can only speak about what I have personally experienced...
 
Re: Gibson Last straw...

I bought my 335 brand-new a few years ago and couldn't be happier now that I've replaced the pickups, frets, fret markers and pots. It now sounds just like a £ 1800 guitar should and I've only had to invest an extra £ 500. What a bargain. Poor old Gibson get such a hard time.......
 
Re: Gibson Last straw...

:haha::laugh2::lmao:
OK man, you've officially made my day not ot mention my sig :D
:9::p
 
Re: Gibson Last straw...

All well and good (and I agree) but REALITY: we are not Gibson (or PRS USA , or Hamer USA, or similar companies) target market. Haven't been in Gibson's case for 20 years. I think consumers need to realize and get over this frustrating but very apparent (and important) business fact.

If Gibson's "target market" isn't guitar players like us, then who is, and are there enough of them to buy tens of thousands of Gibson guitars every year? The money is in the average players. If Gibson's priced themselves out of that huge pool of potential customers, they're becoming a small niche market. This is the wrong time to do that.

Not every guitar company will survive the next few years. With General Motors now in a panic mode just to survive, Gibson is seeing their sales plummet too. This is a wake up call for American companies to give higher quality at lower prices, to get more efficient & value-oriented, and pay their top execs less, or risk going out of business. If Gibson is around 5 years from now, it will because of the cash flow provided by Epiphone. People aren't going to be buying many $3,000 guitars that need new PU's and the bridge re-positioned. If Gibson folds, or is sold to overseas investors (like many traditional big American companies have been), it will be self-inflicted from the questionable decisions being made today, like not including the average player in their target market.

Some foreign investor group may buy Gibson, & set up plants overseas, drop prices, use high-quality lumber and learn the secrets of American-made aftermarket PU's, come up with a better marketing plan that will move far more more units, and still give the same quality (or better) than we get today. Gibson's been sold a couple times already in my lifetime. I expect it to happen again.
 
Re: Gibson Last straw...

I bought my 335 brand-new a few years ago and couldn't be happier now that I've replaced the pickups, frets, fret markers and pots. It now sounds just like a £ 1800 guitar should and I've only had to invest an extra £ 500. What a bargain. Poor old Gibson get such a hard time.......

If you paid 1800 pounds for a guitar that needed all that done do it, :smash:

we should be giving you a hard time. ;)
 
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Re: Gibson Last straw...

If Gibson's "target market" isn't guitar players like us, then who is, and are there enough of them to buy tens of thousands of Gibson guitars every year? The money is in the average players. If Gibson's priced themselves out of that huge pool of potential customers, they're becoming a small niche market. This is the wrong time to do that.

The "BABY BOOMERS" are their target group now.
The people with all the so called disposable income.
Kids are out of the house.
House is payed off.
$401Ks are are healthy.
They've got money to burn.
They're going through mid life crisis, and want to feel like they did in their youth. So, they want those things they saw in their youth but coulodn't afford. Now they can.

And they're are a lot of them.
That's why you see a lot of Senior living apartments and Walgreens going up everywhere.
Everyone wants to tap into that market. It's big money.
 
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