Gibson Nighthawk Wiring With Modern Superswitch

[Kwrig31]

I noticed my '96 Gibson Nighthawk didn't sound quite right, and after a quick screwdriver tap test I found the neck pickup was shorting and activating in the bridge position (position 1 tone knob down) causing a muddy tone. I ordered a new fender SuperSwitch which feels 10x better than the 25 year old switch (along with a new Seymour Duncan bridge pup), but unfortunately I have gone through 4 attempts at wiring it with no success. At this point I am tempted to just go with a standard 5 way switch with basic coil splits, but I really love the "tele" position of the nighthawk in position 5 (tone knob down).



My question is can anyone translate the vintage superswitch wiring shown here from Gibson to a standard superswitch? Based on some other forums, I have also realized this diagram has the bridge and neck labels backwards.




Here is an image I found online which has a modern switch, but it did not work at all after wiring it up twice. Based on the following forum, this also causes a floating coil rather than shorting it to ground so any other wiring suggestions are welcomed. https://forum.seymourduncan.com/foru...nt#post6105017



I can post photos of the Gibson switch later to show the connections, but for some reason I cannot find any info on this switch anywhere! As you can see in the Gibson wiring, it also has 2 lugs paired together at the top rather than the 1 isolated common on the modern one. I cant thank you guys enough, I am about to go bald from pulling my hair out on this one.

Also, on a side note I have always found "the tone knob down" layout to be quite confusing and was curious if anyone could work their magic to swap the pickup layout to the below configuration leaving the "tone knob up" position as-is. This is more intuitive in my opinion with positions 1, 3 and 5 being the full humbuckers and the 2 and 4 positions being the "in between" sounds. I would be perfectly fine with the original Nighthawk configuration, but figured I would throw it out there as my ideal situation. Thanks again for the help!

 

[Kwrig31]

Here is a couple diagrams I made showing what I believe is the correct wiring for a modern and vintage superswitch using Gibson color codes. Can you guys review and make sure I didnt make any mistakes?




While I was at it, I decided to try my "Ideal Wiring" Configuration with the modern switch. If you guys could also double check this one for me that would be great. The only thing I think might be an issue is the hum cancelling in the tele position.

 

[zionstrat]

Here is a couple diagrams I made showing what I believe is the correct wiring for a modern and vintage superswitch using Gibson color codes. Can you guys review and make sure I didnt make any mistakes?




While I was at it, I decided to try my "Ideal Wiring" Configuration with the modern switch. If you guys could also double check this one for me that would be great. The only thing I think might be an issue is the hum cancelling in the tele position.

It's really late and I only got through the first position but I think I saw a short. will try to take another look at this tomorrow if I can get free..

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[ThreeChordWonder]

First things first.

You are aware Seymour Duncan and Fender humbucker wire color coding is different, right?





Next thing to bear in mind is that Fender and Seymour Duncan pickups are wound in opposite directions, so even if you apply the wire color codes correctly, you may have to flip the wiring on either the S-D pickup or the Fender pair.

Third thing to do is go through all your wiring. Check for shorts, accidental solder "bridges", and bad solder joints. A $15 multimeter really helps here.

Once you've done all that, tabulate what pickups / coils you want in each position, and let us know if you're using a regular push-pull or an S-1 switch, and we can have a look.

 

[ThreeChordWonder]

PS I don't understand that first pic you posted, the one with the "switch up" and "switch down" options.

It looks like the neck humbucker only ever uses one coil, so why have a neck humbucker at all?

I could suggest:

Switch down or no switch:

P1 = Bridge humbucker, both coils
P2 = Bridge humbucker, both coils plus middle in parallel
P3 = Middle only
P4 = Neck humbucker, both coils, plus middle in parallel
P5 = Neck humbucker, both coils

Switch up:

As above but coil split humbuckers in P2 and P4

Alternative no switch options with auto coil splits:

P1 = Bridge humbucker, both coils
P2 = Bridge humbucker, auto coil split, middle in parallel
P3 = Middle only
P4 = Neck humbucker, auto coil split, plus middle in parallel
P5 = Neck humbucker, both coils

Other options may also be possible, for example adding a second push pull to enable neck and bridge in parallel, phase inverting the middle, or wiring the pickups in series not parallel. It all depends what you want to achieve, but be aware some combinations may not be. It's kind of like buying a constable car: "you can have a convertible or a sun roof but you can't have a convertible with a sunroof" deal.

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

I noticed my '96 Gibson Nighthawk didn't sound quite right, and after a quick screwdriver tap test I found the neck pickup was shorting and activating in the bridge position (position 1 tone knob down) causing a muddy tone. I ordered a new fender SuperSwitch which feels 10x better than the 25 year old switch (along with a new Seymour Duncan bridge pup), but unfortunately I have gone through 4 attempts at wiring it with no success. At this point I am tempted to just go with a standard 5 way switch with basic coil splits, but I really love the "tele" position of the nighthawk in position 5 (tone knob down).



My question is can anyone translate the vintage superswitch wiring shown here from Gibson to a standard superswitch? Based on some other forums, I have also realized this diagram has the bridge and neck labels backwards.




Here is an image I found online which has a modern switch, but it did not work at all after wiring it up twice. Based on the following forum, this also causes a floating coil rather than shorting it to ground so any other wiring suggestions are welcomed. https://forum.seymourduncan.com/foru...nt#post6105017



I can post photos of the Gibson switch later to show the connections, but for some reason I cannot find any info on this switch anywhere! As you can see in the Gibson wiring, it also has 2 lugs paired together at the top rather than the 1 isolated common on the modern one. I cant thank you guys enough, I am about to go bald from pulling my hair out on this one.

Also, on a side note I have always found "the tone knob down" layout to be quite confusing and was curious if anyone could work their magic to swap the pickup layout to the below configuration leaving the "tone knob up" position as-is. This is more intuitive in my opinion with positions 1, 3 and 5 being the full humbuckers and the 2 and 4 positions being the "in between" sounds. I would be perfectly fine with the original Nighthawk configuration, but figured I would throw it out there as my ideal situation. Thanks again for the help!

Hi Kwrig31,

The pencil-and-paper sketch that I created and attached below, gets you the stock Gibson wiring options that you asked for. It is based on my translation of a Gibson-issued diagram that I found online (also attached) but the 5 way superswitch in that one is depicted in a way that is not straight-forward.

You cited an older thread from this forum where member ArtieToo advised that the coilsplits as designed in the stock diagram would be suspectible to noise. I agree with Artie's assessment. So you have been warned. As you will see in my pencil-and-paper sketch, I have added a note that states this. I also added a note that states that Position 5 (with the push-pull in the Down position), is not hum-canceling. This is because the two splitcoils are the same magnetic polarity (South). One splitcoil would need to be the opposite magnetic polarity in order to get hum-canceling.

I did not create this diagram using software nor investigate whether the five positions when the Push-Pull is Down could be rearranged because of the significant amount of additional time required to do so.

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[Jack_TriPpEr]

Oops, one minor correction to my pencil-and-paper sketch: i drew the Neck pickup oriented so that its South coil is the outer coil and the North coil is the inner coil. As you can see in the Gibson-issued diagram, the Neck pickup is oriented reverse of that. However, this is only an orientation difference. All of the wiring connections in my sketch are accurate as depicted; none need to be changed.

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[Jack_TriPpEr]

Oops, one minor correction to my pencil-and-paper sketch: i drew the Neck pickup oriented so that its South coil is the outer coil and the North coil is the inner coil. As you can see in the Gibson-issued diagram, the Neck pickup is oriented reverse of that. However, this is only an orientation difference. All of the wiring connections in my sketch are accurate as depicted; none need to be changed.

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Mehh, i just spotted that i wired the Master Tone control wrong. I'll post up a replacement in a couple minutes, and I'll reorient the Neck pickup while I am at it. S

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[Jack_TriPpEr]

Ok, fixed. Corrected diagram attached to this reply.

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[Kwrig31]

Thanks so much for taking the time to put that together. Is anyone aware of a way to short the coils to ground rather than just "Dangling"? Also, if there is a way to have the position 5 (switch down) to be hum cancelling, that would be awesome.

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Thanks so much for taking the time to put that together. Is anyone aware of a way to short the coils to ground rather than just "Dangling"? Also, if there is a way to have the position 5 (switch down) to be hum cancelling, that would be awesome.

That "dangling coil" method is the only way to accomplish all of those specific 10 pickup combinations while using only one 2PDT switch (e.g. push-pull pot, 2 way toggle switch). To get all of those same 10 options and use an improved coilsplitting method which doesn't have the potential for noise, then you need to be willing to use at least one additional 2PDT pot or a 4PDT switch. Not sure if its more than one 2PDT pot or not because I haven't invested the time to study it. If adding additional switches isn't an acceptable option for you, there is another alternative but it has the tradeoff that some of the 10 pickup combinations would be slightly different - basically what you'd find on most HSH guitars. For example:

Push-pull DOWN:
1. bridge HB
2. Bridge HB / Middle
3. Middle
4. Neck HB / Middle
5. Neck HB

Push-Pull UP:
1. bridge split
2. Bridge split / middle
3. Middle
4. Neck split / middle
5. Neck split

You'd also have the option to have Positon 3 be different btw Down and Up mode as follows if you wanr, as follows

Push-pull DOWN:
3. Bridge HB /Neck HB

Push-pull UP:
3. Middle

Forum member MikeS designed a diagram that does this last year. I could dig it up for you if you're interested.

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[Jack_TriPpEr]

Here is the link to that forum thread that has the diagram I mentioned in my last reply. See replies #3 and #4 particularly.

https://forum.seymourduncan.com/for...wiring-suggestions-help?p=5747470#post5747470

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[Jack_TriPpEr]

Also, if there is a way to have the position 5 (switch down) to be hum cancelling, that would be awesome.

Push-pull DOWN position 5 is not hum-canceling once again because Gibson choose to only use a single 2PDT and so the coilsplit is fixed to either North coil active or South coil active. In this scenario with those baked in limitations, one of the following was going to lose out w regards to hum-canceling, either Push-Pull DOWN position 5, or one of Push-pull UP 2 or 4. Gibson understandbly decided to in favor of getting both Positions 2 and 4 to be hum-canceling. Made possible because the Middle pickup has North Up polarity.


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[Kwrig31]

I actually took the tone pot out and am only using a dpdt mini switch in it's place, so going to a 4PDT switch is totally an option if it will allow me to achieve the hum cancelling and noise issues. I would have no clue where to even start wiring that up so would greatly appreciate the help! Can't thank everyone enough!

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

I actually took the tone pot out and am only using a dpdt mini switch in it's place, so going to a 4PDT switch is totally an option if it will allow me to achieve the hum cancelling and noise issues. I would have no clue where to even start wiring that up so would greatly appreciate the help! Can't thank everyone enough!

Have you used the guitar yet after removing the tone pot? If you haven't yet, you should expect it to sound a little brighter now. That's because even when a tone pot is fully open (on 10), the pot still loads the signal down a bit. If you notice the increased brightness and don't like it, you can alleviate it without having to reinstall the tone pot. Instead, you can add a 500K resistor to simulate the missing pot.

Regarding your request for the same pickup combinations as the stock Gibson scheme but with improved coilsplitting method: if the alternate diagram I shared a couple replies ago was updated to include the Tele-like combination of Push-Pull Down Position 5 (but with hum-canceling), would that work for you? If not, why? Just curious. IMO, the alternate diagram assigns the pickup combinations to positions 1 thru 5 in a more intuitive layout than the stock scheme (an issue you raised earlier).

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[Kwrig31]

Have you used the guitar yet after removing the tone pot? If you haven't yet, you should expect it to sound a little brighter now. That's because even when a tone pot is fully open (on 10), the pot still loads the signal down a bit. If you notice the increased brightness and don't like it, you can alleviate it without having to reinstall the tone pot. Instead, you can add a 500K resistor to simulate the missing pot.

Yes, I've been using it this way for about 5 years and love the extra bit of brightness.

Regarding your request for the same pickup combinations as the stock Gibson scheme but with improved coilsplitting method: if the alternate diagram I shared a couple replies ago was updated to include the Tele-like combination of Push-Pull Down Position 5 (but with hum-canceling), would that work for you? If not, why? Just curious. IMO, the alternate diagram assigns the pickup combinations to positions 1 thru 5 in a more intuitive layout than the stock scheme (an issue you raised earlier).

The diagram you made was exactly how I want the layout, but with a slightly improved design. The 2 improvements would be Avoiding the "floating" coils by shorting the correct coil to ground in each humbucker, as well as hum canceling in push pull down position 5. The 3 positions I use most are bridge humbucker, bridge split and the position 5 Tele sound and 2 of those 3 are susceptible to hum.

In another forum on guitarnutz2 I have a couple guys helping me out a ton and this was his suggestion while keeping the dpdt. We are still working out how to add the final improvement with a 4pdt switch to implement both modifications.

Can't thank everyone enough for the help.

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Yes, I've been using it this way for about 5 years and love the extra bit of brightness.



The diagram you made was exactly how I want the layout, but with a slightly improved design. The 2 improvements would be Avoiding the "floating" coils by shorting the correct coil to ground in each humbucker, as well as hum canceling in push pull down position 5. The 3 positions I use most are bridge humbucker, bridge split and the position 5 Tele sound and 2 of those 3 are susceptible to hum.

In another forum on guitarnutz2 I have a couple guys helping me out a ton and this was his suggestion while keeping the dpdt. We are still working out how to add the final improvement with a 4pdt switch to implement both modifications.

Can't thank everyone enough for the help.

Just to be clear, the alternate diagram I provided earlier does not use the "dangling coil" method for coilsplitting, so it is already setup to eliminate the potential noise problem. Also, a 4PDT switch could be substituted for the push-pull pot shown in that alternate diagram.

So the only thing left is to add a hum-canceling Position 5 to that diagram. I know how to do that, but it involves discussing with you different approaches, each with their own tradeoffs . Let me know.


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[Jack_TriPpEr]

In another forum on guitarnutz2 I have a couple guys helping me out a ton and this was his suggestion while keeping the dpdt. We are still working out how to add the final improvement with a 4pdt switch to implement both modifications.

Can't thank everyone enough for the help.

I've reviewed that diagram you posted, and FYI - everytime that the Bridge and Neck pickups are split to their South coils, it's using the "dangling coil" method. So the potential for noise is still present.



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[Kwrig31]

I've reviewed that diagram you posted, and FYI - everytime that the Bridge and Neck pickups are split to their South coils, it's using the "dangling coil" method. So the potential for noise is still present.

Thanks for catching that!

Just to be clear, the alternate diagram I provided earlier does not use the "dangling coil" method for coilsplitting, so it is already setup to eliminate the potential noise problem

So sorry, I didn't realize that your diagram already solved that problem! I'm bit of a novice when it comes to this so I really appreciate you clarifying that. Based on the bottom left Notes section I thought the issue was still present.

So the only thing left is to add a hum-canceling Position 5 to that diagram. I know how to do that, but it involves discussing with you different approaches, each with their own tradeoffs . Let me know.

I would love to hear your thoughts on this. My primary goal is to keep the outside bridge humbucker active while I am not too concerned about which neck coil is chosen. Retaining the "Twang" of the south coil just sounds great to my ears. I thought this would require a 4PDT but I may be mistaken.

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Based on the bottom left Notes section I thought the issue was still present.




I would love to hear your thoughts on this. My primary goal is to keep the outside bridge humbucker active while I am not too concerned about which neck coil is chosen. Retaining the "Twang" of the south coil just sounds great to my ears. I thought this would require a 4PDT but I may be mistaken.

That's not the diagram I was talking about. That diagram you just quoted, is the *stock* wiring for your guitar that I created for you.

The diagram I'm talking about (that resolves the problem of potential noise) is in another thread that i posted the link to in Reply #12.

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