Gibson "Quality"

[MikeRocker]

Re: Gibson "Quality"

But that doesn't change the fact that people are still going out and buying the guitars at these prices. Nothing will change as long as that continues to happen.

True, true. Well, caveat emptor. I do feel bad for all of the dentists who are paying that much money for guitars with shoddy QC, though. :laugh2:

 

[FretFire]

Re: Gibson "Quality"

True, true. Well, caveat emptor. I do feel bad for all of the dentists who are paying that much money for guitars with shoddy QC, though. :laugh2:

I hear ya. I think it would be great to see Gibson DROP prices one year instead of raising them like they have on a regular basis recently.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Gibson "Quality"

Great posts Mike! Gibson vs Heritage comparison does put in perspective........but Heritage does use less wood than Gibson.....ON THE HEADSTOCK!! :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

Luke

 

[MikeRocker]

Re: Gibson "Quality"

Great posts Mike! Gibson vs Heritage comparison does put in perspective........but Heritage does use less wood than Gibson.....ON THE HEADSTOCK!! :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

Luke

LOL :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: Good one, Luke!

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Gibson "Quality"

LOL :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: Good one, Luke!

Thank you Thank you, I'm here all the time!

 

[JeffB]

Re: Gibson "Quality"

Actually its quite simple why heritage costs less

Hundreds of employees...sales, marketing, builders, IT people, laywers, etc etc vs...hmmm 10 maybe? (Now think of employee benefits..retirements if any, 401 K plans, etc that Gibson will have)

huge factory and distribution channels (and resulting cost to run the business) vs not even a pimple on Gibson's ass...

Advertising....in magazines...at trade shows...on TV....online....vs...uhm...WHO? :laugh2:

Business 101

 

[mnbaseball91]

Re: Gibson "Quality"

To those of you saying that it takes all these trained luthiers to put together a Les Paul, have you SEEN the virtual factory tour on the gibson website? Have you seen the people they have working in the factory? Those are not luthiers, those are people who have been taught how to do one specific task and would otherwise be flipping burgers at a fast food place. How much skill does it take to route a channel for binding using a machine that makes it virtually impossible to mess up? How difficult can it be to spray bodies that are hung in front of you one after another? All the wood work is done by giant CNC machines. Hell, Gibson doesn't even give the necks a proper fret job!

If we're talking about a private luthier building a custom guitar, then I absolutely agree. These giant assmebly line factories, however, produce hundreds of identical guitars every day and are really no different than producing a car.

 

[Woodcutter]

Re: Gibson "Quality"

The only QC problem i've personally seen on a gibson is a broken seletor switch. The price isn't that high compared to other high-end companys. I f you think about it how many people would buy a Heitage if they were the same price as Gibson. I'm not saying Heritage guitars aren't as good a Gibson, but the average person buys a Heritage because it's a Gibson LP copy not because there great guitars in ther own right.

 

[TheGZeus]

Re: Gibson "Quality"

You could compare tham to 'other high end guitar makers' if they were of similar quality.
Play enough of them and you'll find the average quality lacking.

 

[FretFire]

Re: Gibson "Quality"

To those of you saying that it takes all these trained luthiers to put together a Les Paul, have you SEEN the virtual factory tour on the gibson website? Have you seen the people they have working in the factory? Those are not luthiers, those are people who have been taught how to do one specific task and would otherwise be flipping burgers at a fast food place. How much skill does it take to route a channel for binding using a machine that makes it virtually impossible to mess up? How difficult can it be to spray bodies that are hung in front of you one after another? All the wood work is done by giant CNC machines. Hell, Gibson doesn't even give the necks a proper fret job!

If we're talking about a private luthier building a custom guitar, then I absolutely agree. These giant assmebly line factories, however, produce hundreds of identical guitars every day and are really no different than producing a car.

Gibson does more by hand than you think. There are a few people on these boards that have PERSONALLY been on a tour of the facilities, not just seen one on the internet. Also, spraying a quality finish is a LOT harder than I ever thought, and this is just from my small experience spraying a few coats of nitro on my strat's neck. That means that these people probably have more in depth training than they get credit for.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Gibson "Quality"

I'm not saying Heritage guitars aren't as good a Gibson, but the average person buys a Heritage because it's a Gibson LP copy not because there great guitars in ther own right.

I bought a Heritage b/c I wanted a real Gibson.

 

[joelap]

Re: Gibson "Quality"

I like cake.

 

[MikeRocker]

Re: Gibson "Quality"

Actually its quite simple why heritage costs less

Hundreds of employees...sales, marketing, builders, IT people, laywers, etc etc vs...hmmm 10 maybe? (Now think of employee benefits..retirements if any, 401 K plans, etc that Gibson will have)

huge factory and distribution channels (and resulting cost to run the business) vs not even a pimple on Gibson's ass...

Advertising....in magazines...at trade shows...on TV....online....vs...uhm...WHO? :laugh2:

Business 101

I've got to disagree with your logic here. It's like saying that merchandise should cost more at Wal-Mart than a local Mom and Pop store. The volume of guitars Gibson builds and sells means the cost of raw materials and labor for each is a lot less. It's like buying a shirt at the Gap rather than having someone custom make you a shirt. When you are set up to produce a product in such a volume, your overhead goes down. It's the old Henry Ford assembly line philosophy. I have no idea how many guitars Gibson and Heritage each produce on a monthly basis, but clearly Gibson produces many times more. To that end, they buy raw materials much cheaper, and have their facilities set up to convert raw material into guitars quickly and efficiently. Also, while finishing at home with ReRanch supplies is tedious (I've done 2 myself), finishing with expensive dedicated finishing machines in an optimized environment is not so difficult. I will bet you the cost of a new Les Paul Custom that Gibson's cost to produce each guitar is significantly less than Heritage's. Not including, of course, Henry J's paycheck and bonuses and other corporate-level benefits.

 

[deftgala]

Re: Gibson "Quality"

just to throw in my .02 about pricing of Gibson guitars in Canada. At Long and McQuade, Toronto's leading Gibson authorized dealer, prices skyrocketed during the late 90's.

As of the past couple of years they have dropped and from what my friend told me (he works at L&M), the new stock will be dropping appx. another $350-500CAN.

Would this be because of mass production and low quality compared to previous models... I don't know.

I ask you guys?

 

[bryvincent]

Re: Gibson "Quality"

just to throw in my .02 about pricing of Gibson guitars in Canada. At Long and McQuade, Toronto's leading Gibson authorized dealer, prices skyrocketed during the late 90's.

As of the past couple of years they have dropped and from what my friend told me (he works at L&M), the new stock will be dropping appx. another $350-500CAN.

Would this be because of mass production and low quality compared to previous models... I don't know.

I ask you guys?

that's because of the stronger canadian dollar. its just the exchange rate. the prices actually went up but the canadian dollar went up more so the prices went down in canada.

 

[deftgala]

Re: Gibson "Quality"

well, with all this talk about QC of recent LP's... I am not sure it's worth spending $2,500CAN ($2,000USD) on them anymore.. it's pretty discouraging to hear all these things about your favorite guitars. I might as well look into buying a PRS that you know has isn't known for such problems.

 

[TheGZeus]

Re: Gibson "Quality"

Gibson does more by hand than you think. There are a few people on these boards that have PERSONALLY been on a tour of the facilities, not just seen one on the internet. Also, spraying a quality finish is a LOT harder than I ever thought, and this is just from my small experience spraying a few coats of nitro on my strat's neck. That means that these people probably have more in depth training than they get credit for.

Most gibsons I've seen evidence the fact that it's hard to spray a good finish and they don't have alot of training.

 

[big_black]

Re: Gibson "Quality"

I don't buy that as any valid excuse. Gibson has been spraying finish on solid bodies for going on 50 years. They should have optimal equipment and optimal conditions for a good quality finish- everytime. It's difficult at home- yes, but after spraying for two weeks at the plant, I'm sure you would be pretty darn good at it. It's a lack of caring and the fact that they don't HAVE to.

 

[JeffB]

Re: Gibson "Quality"

I've got to disagree with your logic here. It's like saying that merchandise should cost more at Wal-Mart than a local Mom and Pop store.

If we were talking retail..I.e. the same snickers bar costs less at wal-mart than a mom and pop store you'd have a point....but we are talking about the manufacturing level....the extra cost is incurred there..in running the company...and is reflected at the retail level...smal companies do not have the operating costs or overhead, and thus can charge less (i.e be more competitive)

EDIT: I'm not arguing whether the cost difference is warranted or not...just the business model differences...

I've done enough manufacturer level dales in another industry (archery industry) and experienced the level of growth from a small nobody company to an industry giant....I have seen it first hand.....price of raw materials DOES go down...but thats a drop in the bucket comparitively.

 

[big_black]

Re: Gibson "Quality"

...but Gibson would pay way less for any and all materials because they can buy in huge quantities compared to Heritage.