Guitar body tone woods info please.

[MacBradley]

Re: Guitar body tone woods info please.

Everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion and the fact that we are having the discussion just shows there are those who hear a difference and those who don't. I've used amps and effects processors recorded and can hear a distinct difference. I've done blindfold tests and am able to hear the difference. If you can't then hey, that's you. There are people who have something called "Synesthesia" and can see/taste sounds. I can't but just because I can't doesn't mean they are making it up. Our senses are not all equal, and that is not a good/bad thing (in the sense that mine is better than yours.) We are talking about experiences, since I can hear a difference in Basswood from Walnut, I choose to experience those and will give input when the question is asked just like you give input from your experience.

I'm not talking about effects processors and modelers. I'm talking about one variable isolated as much as possible, in this case guitar wood. When your playing two guitars with different woods, you're probably not using the same bridge, neck, exact setup on every part of the bridge and/or saddles, exact same electronics, pickups and pickup heights (on all pickups because magnets effect string vibration even when not in use), and played through a mic or direct in and played back without the guitar's acoustic properties available. Until you've isolated Basswood from Walnut as the only difference between the guitars, you can't know that the differences you're hearing are due to the difference in those wood types. There's far too many other variables that are much easier to prove make a difference. Like I said...I used to believe I had uniquely special ears because I swore I could hear the differences. It turns out it was the power of suggestion all along.

I wish I still had those clips. Hopefully I'll be able to get a hold of another replacement Strat body and run the same test again for you guys with everything else the same as possible.

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: Guitar body tone woods info please.

I'm not talking about effects processors and modelers. I'm talking about one variable isolated as much as possible, in this case guitar wood. When your playing two guitars with different woods, you're probably not using the same bridge, neck, exact setup on every part of the bridge and/or saddles, exact same electronics, pickups and pickup heights (on all pickups because magnets effect string vibration even when not in use), and played through a mic or direct in and played back without the guitar's acoustic properties available. Until you've isolated Basswood from Walnut as the only difference between the guitars, you can't know that the differences you're hearing are due to the difference in those wood types. There's far too many other variables that are much easier to prove make a difference. Like I said...I used to believe I had uniquely special ears because I swore I could hear the differences. It turns out it was the power of suggestion all along.

I wish I still had those clips. Hopefully I'll be able to get a hold of another replacement Strat body and run the same test again for you guys with everything else the same as possible.

With all due respect, you are not thoroughly reading my posts so I don't think you are completely getting my point (I actually specifically mentioned that some people will list tons of reasons for the difference, but I was offering a simple test.)


"Quote Originally Posted by treyhaislip: I will have to respectfully disagree. I have used the same setup with the exact same guitars with different wood combos and tried the same pickups in both, there was definitely a pronounced difference. Take an Alder strat and a Basswood Strat, take one JB and try it in both guitars and tell me there is not a difference. Simple test with simple variables (try to use the same string gauges and get strats with the same hardware.) Some people will list tons of reasons for the difference, getting extremely technical and all. I say, just do the simple test. For me, I could hear a difference."

Not trying to be nit-picky, but the specific test I was talking about is between Alder and Basswood. Walnut is a rare tonewood so finding one with extremely similar hardware would be almost impossible without building two identically. Get an Alder strat and a Basswood strat (Basswood being the topic of the original post of this thread) and try out the same JB in both.

You definitely misunderstood my reference of amps and processors, so I will clarify the point I was making. I've tried as close to possible the same pickups in two guitars about as closely as you can get (we are talking about organic materials here, so nothing is 100% the same and you cannot produce the exact same guitar in every single way) and ran them thru the same amps and processors. I noticed a difference in everything I ran it through. My Basswood strats sounded better through my Roland processor, the Alder strats sounded better through my Line 6 processor. Through my amps, Mesa Boogie DC5 (wish I never sold it) and Fender Hot Rod Deluxe (modded with a tighter distortion channel) there was a noticeable difference. To recap, the point was that I can hear a difference whether it is "live" via an amp or "digital" from a processor direct thru my computers/headphones.

For the guitars that I have used, mainly Charvels, Fenders, and assembled Strats (Warmoth, Musikraft, Allparts, Saylor Guitars) I've found that for my ears and playing, Basswood sounds better clean and with light crunch/chorus while I prefer Mahogany and Walnut for high gain stuff. I love Alder and Ash but do not have a guitar with these tonewoods at the moment.

Again, it is a personal preference and I can hear a difference–some people can and some people can't. I am not trying to start/continue a tone war. I would politely ask, have you tried a JB in an Alder guitar and a Basswood guitar with same scale length and similar hardware?

 

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Re: Guitar body tone woods info please.

Reading between the lines . . . i can probably assume that diff woods can only contribute so much, before something else start taking over !?

Let's say you have a Duncan Invader 'bucker in three identical (as much as possible) LP-shaped Warmoth builds.

One a Mahogany slab, one a Basswood slab, and the other an Ash slab.
Once you install something as over powering as an INvader, the tonal properties will play almost no affect ? Correct ?

And then, once you start adding gain (let's say, TS808 at 50%gain), all three guitars will sound the same . . . not so ?

 

[Snake Aces]

Re: Guitar body tone woods info please.

I would love to see that thread, unless its the one I remember from a bit back where the guitars are different scale lengths. That has a significant impact on tone due to the different string tension and is a variable too large to make a conclusion on the wood's effect on the tone. I'd love to see different results than I got with the same scale length though. I'm never afraid to admit I was wrong if it means I'll learn something new.

Interesting. Well, there is more to different tone than just scale lengths too. As I posted earlier: I have tried a JB in a 25.5" scale neck (maple) with an alder solid body Strat (loved it), a 24.75" scale neck (wenge with ziricote fretboard) with solid alder Strat body (still liked it a lot), 24.75" scale neck (wenge with ziricote fretboard) with chambered black korina LP with a Wilkinson trem (was pretty good but didn't like it as much with this combo), 24.75" scale neck (Indian rosewood) with a solid mahogany string through LP body (likable but not top choice) and finally with a 25.5" scale (bocote) neck on a solid swamp ash body (this is the JB's sweet spot for me).

I also have experience with the Alnico II Pro, STK-S4, 59, Jazz, SSL-1 and many, many other pickups in different guitars, different scale lengths but same pickups. There are many factors and I would encourage you to experience as much as I have or others have before forming an opinion on whether or not wood makes a difference.

Knowledge can be formed with experience. People who play the same woods within the same scale lengths do not get the same experience as those who branch out and play different woods within the same scale length. It's not fair to have this conversation with somebody who has only ever played the Fender wood combos or the Gibson wood combos within their related scale lengths. Branch out, try some exotics and not so common woods. Then enter the discussion.

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: Guitar body tone woods info please.

I'm not talking about effects processors and modelers. I'm talking about one variable isolated as much as possible, in this case guitar wood. When your playing two guitars with different woods, you're probably not using the same bridge, neck, exact setup on every part of the bridge and/or saddles, exact same electronics, pickups and pickup heights (on all pickups because magnets effect string vibration even when not in use), and played through a mic or direct in and played back without the guitar's acoustic properties available. Until you've isolated Basswood from Walnut as the only difference between the guitars, you can't know that the differences you're hearing are due to the difference in those wood types. There's far too many other variables that are much easier to prove make a difference. Like I said...I used to believe I had uniquely special ears because I swore I could hear the differences. It turns out it was the power of suggestion all along.

I wish I still had those clips. Hopefully I'll be able to get a hold of another replacement Strat body and run the same test again for you guys with everything else the same as possible.

Even isolating a single thing (in this case species of wood) isn't that helpful . . . if by nature the material is variable. It's possible that what you experienced was due to the particular slabs of wood you were testing . . . you would need to test multiple identical guitars of each species of wood to get meaningful results.

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: Guitar body tone woods info please.

Reading between the lines . . . i can probably assume that diff woods can only contribute so much, before something else start taking over !?

Let's say you have a Duncan Invader 'bucker in three identical (as much as possible) LP-shaped Warmoth builds.

One a Mahogany slab, one a Basswood slab, and the other an Ash slab.
Once you install something as over powering as an INvader, the tonal properties will play almost no affect ? Correct ?

And then, once you start adding gain (let's say, TS808 at 50%gain), all three guitars will sound the same . . . not so ?

I do not have experience with the Invader in my builds nor the Warmoth LP Shaped builds. What I do know is that I've tried multiple combinations of SD Hotrails, JBs, Screamin Demons, and DMZ Liquifires in multiple Strat builds (I've used other pickups but not in similar builds with different tonewoods) involving Alder, Ash, Basswood, Mahogany, Poplar, and Walnut. Alder, Ash, and Poplar sounded similar and I was not able to hear a difference between these woods. Other than that, they all sounded different with unique differences.

The biggest difference I noticed was Basswood...different from any other wood I've used. And as I mentioned earlier, perhaps what some call a mid boost is my way of saying "neutral" in that the highs and lows were not prevalent. On a line graph of lows to highs, I would put Basswood in the middle. Second would be Walnut, the sustain was like Mahogany but was more compressed, more treble response, and just superior in my opinion. But again, these are generalizations based on my experiences.

Yes, one can always find quite a few exceptions to generalizations. I love jalapenos, I've had some that were really hot and some that were not hot at all. But generally speaking they are a hot vegetable. Same with watermelons, I've had some that were super sweet and others that I would have labeled sugar free. lol Some people do not like jalapenos and do not like watermelons, that is fine. Some people do not hear a difference in tonewoods while others can. Lets agree to disagree and if the author of this thread wants to give Basswood a try to check tonewoods, then go for it.

 

[Snake Aces]

Re: Guitar body tone woods info please.

Reading between the lines . . . i can probably assume that diff woods can only contribute so much, before something else start taking over !?

Let's say you have a Duncan Invader 'bucker in three identical (as much as possible) LP-shaped Warmoth builds.

One a Mahogany slab, one a Basswood slab, and the other an Ash slab.
Once you install something as over powering as an INvader, the tonal properties will play almost no affect ? Correct ?

And then, once you start adding gain (let's say, TS808 at 50%gain), all three guitars will sound the same . . . not so ?

I have experience with different Warmoth LP woods but I have no experience with the Invader. The highest output I have used is the JB.

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: Guitar body tone woods info please.

I have experience with different Warmoth LP woods but I have no experience with the Invader. The highest output I have used is the JB.

If memory serves me well, you are a low output fan?

 

[Snake Aces]

Re: Guitar body tone woods info please.

If memory serves me well, you are a low output fan?

That would be correct my friend. Good memory. Some of my favorite neck and bridge humbuckers are the Jazz and Alnico II Pros. I like the Pearly Gates and 59's in the right guitars too.

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: Guitar body tone woods info please.

That would be correct my friend. Good memory. Some of my favorite neck and bridge humbuckers are the Jazz and Alnico II Pros. I like the Pearly Gates and 59's in the right guitars too.

That's right, you made a suggestion for Alnico IIs on a thread I was apart of. lol All of mine are medium to high output. So we are opposites. lol

 

[Snake Aces]

Re: Guitar body tone woods info please.

That's right, you made a suggestion for Alnico IIs on a thread I was apart of. lol All of mine are medium to high output. So we are opposites. lol

And yet... no petty disagreement arguments. Imagine that, two different preferences and opinions without war!

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: Guitar body tone woods info please.

And yet... no petty disagreement arguments. Imagine that, two different preferences and opinions without war!

Haha! I'll say thats because, if memory serves me correct again, we are both midwesterners...? I was born in KC, MO but raised in Texas... XD

Actually, I think both of us have the mindset of of disagreeing, stating our opinion, respecting the other's opinion while still holding onto our own without a war. I won't convince you that the Dimebucker is the greatest pickup ever made...but I can at least try to nicely!

 

[Snake Aces]

Re: Guitar body tone woods info please.

Haha! I'll say thats because, if memory serves me correct again, we are both midwesterners...? I was born in KC, MO but raised in Texas... XD

Actually, I think both of us have the mindset of of disagreeing, stating our opinion, respecting the other's opinion while still holding onto our own without a war. I won't convince you that the Dimebucker is the greatest pickup ever made...but I can at least try to nicely!

Yessir, I've got the midwestern mindset with Minnesota nice blood. I try to play nice. I will try to sway your opinion towards the Alnico II Pro while still allowing you to hold your opinion of that Dimebucker. Maybe that's the salesman in me though. Evil tricks.

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: Guitar body tone woods info please.

Yessir, I've got the midwestern mindset with Minnesota nice blood. I try to play nice. I will try to sway your opinion towards the Alnico II Pro while still allowing you to hold your opinion of that Dimebucker. Maybe that's the salesman in me though. Evil tricks.

2 for 2! :22: lol Yeah, we Midwesterners have our opinions...especially the Texas folks. But we try to place nice too!

And I need to give the Alnico II Pro set a try sometime...when I'm no longer playing metal riffs! :headbang:

 

[Snake Aces]

Re: Guitar body tone woods info please.

2 for 2! :22: lol Yeah, we Midwesterners have our opinions...especially the Texas folks. But we try to place nice too!

And I need to give the Alnico II Pro set a try sometime...when I'm no longer playing metal riffs! :headbang:

I could be biased but it's a pretty darn good pickup!

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: Guitar body tone woods info please.

I could be biased but it's a pretty darn good pickup!

ha! I've never played one through my current rig, so I should probably try it again before writing it off completely