has anyone tried an Earvana nut?

[aldu74]

Re: has anyone tried an Earvana nut?

In my experience there is no possible way to get every single note 100% in tune on the guitar.

No one has ever made that claim, not even Earvana.

I use it and I can tell you that it definitely helps. No, it is not perfect, but I can certainly hear a difference, especially in chords. They just sound more in tune, less of that "wavering" sound you sometimes hear between notes.

 

[rspst14]

Re: has anyone tried an Earvana nut?

The Earvana has NO effect on the pitch of fretted notes. As best I can see the Earvana is a band-aid lazily applied to a bigger problem. No offense meant to anyone that uses them, but I setup my own guitars and haven't had a need to try anything other than a good ol' allen wrench turning a saddle screw.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a guitar that has perfect pitch at every fret. The open/12 method works fine in theory, assuming that each fret is EXACTLY where it needs to be. If you were to intonate a guitar so that the 12th fret was the perfect octave of the open note, everything else should fall into place. If the 16th fret were then sharp, the err is in the construction, not the setup, IMO. The second you tried to adjust the saddle to make the 16th intonate correctly, you'd throw the pitch off at the 12th fret.

It does have an effect on fretted notes, in fact, that's the entire point of using it. I'd have to disagree that it's a lazy or sloppy fix for the problem, as I said, I think it's superior to a traditional nut in every way. It really just depends on how important it is to have a guitar that's intonated as close to perfect as possible. Some people don't notice the slight tuning imperfections of fretted instruments, others don't care enough to seek out a fix. Others are too set in their ways, and won't even consider trying one because it's not a "vintage" design like a traditional bone nut. It's not going to make your guitar play perfectly everywhere on the fretboard, but it'll get you close, and it will make it much better overall. You may find that notes that were once perfect are off by half of a cent after switching to the Earvana. But you'll also find that notes that used to be out by 3 cents are now perfect.

Don't take my word for it, if you can find an ESP model that comes with one from the factory, plug it into a strobe tuner and see for yourself.

Ryan

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: has anyone tried an Earvana nut?

2. We can purposely shift certain scale notes closer to or farther from their neighbors to make perfect intervals or chords in some places. If we choose wisely, we can make the most important chords in a given key be the perfect ones. This is the concept behind Just Intonation (JST in the VS-1 temperament menu). In the key of C, the chords of C major, F Major, and G Major can each have perfectly harmonious tuning intervals within. Unfortunately, the price to pay is that other chords, especially those in more remote keys like C# and F#, sound much worse than they would in equal temperament. If an instrument like a piano is tuned in Just Major temperament for the key of C, notes and chords that fall in the C Major scale sound wonderful. Modulating to the key of G, most chords sound good, some not quite as good. If one takes a more adventurous trek into the key of E, say, some real "ear-sores" start to develop in certain chords and intervals. Historically, the clinkers are dubbed "wolf tones" which gives some indication of their "charm".

3. Between the extremes given above, there are countless compromises. Why not settle for some "nearly perfect" chords in the most popular key signatures, while keeping the "wolves" at bay in the less traveled ones? There are about as many such "well tempered" scales as there have been minds conceiving of them. Each such temperament generally takes the name of its earliest inventor or biggest proponent. Some of the more successful ones, like Werkmeister (WRK), Young (YNG), Kirnberger (KRN), and Kellner (KLN) are included in current models of peterson tuners. Besides stock historic temperaments, Peterson Virtual Strobe Tuners also feature unique instrument specific temperaments such as GTR for guitar, BAS for bass, and (VS-II/V-SAM only) E9 & C6 tempered tuning for pedal steel guitar. The VS-S StroboStomp pedal tuner/DI also features four optimized Buzz Feiten Tuning System presets for electric guitar, acoustic guitar, bass guitar and 12-string guitar. All Peterson Tuners (except the VS-1) are user programmable allowing the saving of from two to 244 user teperaments to memory. The V-SAM allows you to adjust any temperament to any one of 12 roots making these temperaments available in any specific key.

This is why I like to fine tune the intonation above the 12th fret, like up to the 20th fret. The fretboard will never be perfect, but if you make a good attempt to get all the notes on the fretboard reasonably in harmony with each other, you'll end up with the best comprimise to get all the chords on the fretboard to sound in tune. Never 100%, but maybe 96% perfect.

 

[dasfonzie]

Re: has anyone tried an Earvana nut?

What about the Buzz Feiten tuning system? What do you guys think of that?

 

[idsnowdog]

Re: has anyone tried an Earvana nut?

I had bad luck with my order from them! It took 3 months to get the nut! They kept losing my order. I finally got it for free. It wasn't hard to install just a couple of hours sanding down the base to get it to fit. Once on, it really helped the intonation of the high strings but the material is so slippery that I have problems keeping it in tune. I also have a problem with my low E string. No matter how much I lower that string it is always sharp on the first three frets.

Snowdog

 

[octavedoctor]

Re: has anyone tried an Earvana nut?

What about the Buzz Feiten tuning system? What do you guys think of that?

The Feiten system is junk science. I've gone into great detail about this elsewhere. I'm not doing it again, PM me if you want the details.

Basically both Earvana and Feiten are basing their ideas on some seriously wrong thinking about equal temperament. Feiten in particular doesn't seem to have a competent grasp of the most basic ideas of physics and the rules of harmony. This is a big and complex subject and he relies on most of you not understanding it any more than he does.

The Earvana nut doesn't have an effect on fretted notes because if you put a capo on the first fret the effect of the differential compensation is cut off and the normal constant ratio is restored. It may affect the way you tune your guitar though.

If you want perfect intonation learn to tune your guitar properly using the correct rules of equal temperament.

See my thread here

https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?p=790912&posted=1#post790912

 

[octavedoctor]

Re: has anyone tried an Earvana nut?

but the material is so slippery that I have problems keeping it in tune.

That doesn't make sense. if the material is slippery then it should hold it's tuning better.

If you are worried about tuning make sure that your tuners are properly fitted and that you are wrapping your strings correctly before messing about with replacement nuts.

I also have a problem with my low E string. No matter how much I lower that string it is always sharp on the first three frets.
Snowdog

Well this sounds to me as though the nut is cut too high. Get soemone competent to set it up.

This problem can also occur if you have high frets, light strings and a firm grip. All these are issues you can address through player technique rather than through technical modification.

 

[Stratman]

Re: has anyone tried an Earvana nut?

I tried this device just to see if it really worked. Waste of money!

Now, I use my tried and proven method setting my own bridge and nut to fit my playing style and bend the string, ever-so-slightly when I need to bring a note into pitch at a given fret location on the neck.

 

[ManykMyke]

Re: has anyone tried an Earvana nut?

I just finished putting one on my Squier. I think it's GREAT! It's as close to perfectly intoned all up and down the neck, and more so than any guitar I've played. Imagine tuning to open or a chord in first position like E and hav the first position D chord intoned also. play a chord in any position from first to fourth and be in tune all over the neck. A quick and easy solution. I have to say I was skeptical but I'm an immediate fan club member now. Found one for $29 on Ebay.
Just be aware that you will have to adjust the saddle positions as the offfsets work together. If you know how to do that all will be done. If not you may have to get your local repair person to set it for you.
I also Chose to use D'Adddario EXL110BT Balanced tension strings. This does require a little getting used to as especially the e1 and b2 seem to have more tension than most other string sets. but the overall tension is lower than any other strings I know of. and equal on all strings. This alone means they (E! and B2) are stretched less by your normal finger pressure. I no longer press them to the fretboard. They react/ feel more like G3-E6 than before. Now have to be more accurate with fingering, and compensate way less if at all by stretching strings when up the fretboard to intone them.

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: has anyone tried an Earvana nut?

Hello paid shill.

 

[ManykMyke]

Re: has anyone tried an Earvana nut?

I'm not a music major. Most of the guitar playing I do is in the major Scales of E, G and a. The biggest problem was that open tuning never has seemed to work, specially if your fingering accuracy/ pressure might not be consistant. given that some strings have less tension than others. tuning to chords was an answer for some songs, but tuning to open or an E chord never makes 1st position D sound good.. Now given that nut height is a factor also, I chose a shelf nut to eliminate that factor, and an equal tension string set takes some of the 1st position differences aout also.. that seems to have eliminated a lot of the problems as far as my ear and ability to tell. after readjusting the bridge offsets afterward (now I'm just using an analog or strobe tuner, not a frequency counter or nice gadgetry, mind you) But overall everything is much closer to being sweet. I'm learning new finger pressurees on the E1 and B2 now, that's ok and just seems to make sense. For me this solution is better than before which was none) and I dont have to worry about accurately filing nut grooves as low as possible.My chords sound the same played in any positions, and any dissonant notes in whatever positions probably aren't in the chord and should be deadened or are or can be present in a fretted inversion somewhere.anyway. am I making any sense?

 

[gordon_39422]

Re: has anyone tried an Earvana nut?

Once a string has been fretted, the nut is ENTIRELY out of the equation, with the exception of pinch harmonics which are based on the 12th fret being EXACTLY centered...

There is NO WAY to perfectly tune all notes on a guitar because of our tempered tuning... Regardless of how painstakingly the fret slots were placed, the notes themselves have a deviation from 0 (middle C) to 5.27 cents (A#) and vary from there...

Also, your "luthier" may not be taking into account YOUR playing method... How hard YOU press the string is more than likely how different than how HE pressed them down... MY solution to this is to set the guitar up for me, then have the client play his guitar in from of me through my Peterson tuner to see how much deviation string pressure HE/SHE exerts... Then I adjust accordingly so I have a guitar perfectly setup for the client. There is no PERFECT setup because of several player induced variables...

I put bone in most of my client's guitar and they love the added clarity of open notes and pinch harmonics, but from there it's string against a fret...

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: has anyone tried an Earvana nut?

1. It's physically impossible to set up a regularly-fretted guitar so that every note on the fretboard reads dead center on a tuner. It simply cannot be done. An individually-placed fret would be needed for almost every separate note. Aside from that physical fact, every set of strings is different – not only gauge to gauge, but package to package of the same exact type – which affects intonation. And every person plays the guitar with a different technique, which affects intonation.

2. That is simply not the goal anyhow. You DON'T want that! It sounds absolutely horrible to the human brain when every note on an instrument is absolutely perfectly in tune. Even if you could get every last note in tune, it would be nothing but a technical exercise. It'd be completely useless unless you wanted to make horrible sounds. It would sound worse than a guitar that was intonated in the standard ways. Why do you think piano tuners don't just use a tuner for every note? The way to tune a piano is to tune chords and intervals by ear using relative pitch, after a dead-center reference note has been set using a tuner. That's because technically perfect tuning simply sounds discordant.

Just get it as good as you can and play the damned thing. Any quest for perfection in this area is not only futile, but also entirely useless. Do you want the thing to actually sound good, or do you want to know in your tweaked-out head that it's technically "perfect?" (Remember that it's a musical instrument here, not some project for your science class.)

 

[Gone_Shootin]

Re: has anyone tried an Earvana nut?

One of those came on an ESP thst the other guitarist in my band has. He hates that nut with a passion.

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: has anyone tried an Earvana nut?

I bought a used G&L Legacy with an Earvana. Not impressed.

Thinking about changing it back, but the guy who did it didn't use the shelf version. If I do have it Changed back, the luthier will have to lay in another piece of RW in the slot, and then recut it. PITA!

Bill

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: has anyone tried an Earvana nut?

I intonate my guitars with crisp bacon strips. They sound incredible.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: has anyone tried an Earvana nut?

^
Yeah but how do they taste?

 

[Dr.K]

Re: has anyone tried an Earvana nut?

I saw this years ago so I had to look it back up.

http://www.truetemperament.com/site/index.php

 

[Drunken Bowling]

Re: has anyone tried an Earvana nut?

I had one on an LTD I had a few years ago. You definitely hear the individual notes more clearly when you play chords.

I have a question, too. Would it defeat the purpose to put an Earvana on a guitar that has a compensated wraparound tailpiece?