Hey, guys who were playing in the 80's....

Re: Hey, guys who were playing in the 80's....

Many of us players who'd spent hours every single day woodshedding to be good enough to "make it" felt apalled at such mediocrity. At least I could accept the slop that Jimmy Page put out in the 70's because what he did was so revolutionary and ecclectic. But Kurt Cobain did nothing for me. I think that he made it cool to just be a crappy musician and so many kids felt like they had been "let off the hook" in terms of having to pay their dues and put in the time and practice that it took to be a good musician BEFORE they made it to the big time. I've been "paying my dues" live for 20+ years. I don't think of it as a chore. I do it because I LOVE doing it. But I have to chuckle when I see "kids" who can barely play a pentatonic lick strutting around arena stages like they're great players and guitar gods.

As a songwriter, I understand that music is an art and therefor is subjective and open to many differen interpretations as to what is of value and what is good. I can deal with that. But as a guitar player and instrumental musician, the state of guitar for the past decade+ has been generally appaling. At least when you turned on the radio or video channel in the 80's and saw the current top 100 bands you saw guitar players who were of phenominal talent. That just isn't so now. There are a select FEW nu-metal guitarists who are "pretty good". But coming from the 80's with guys like Vai, Yngwie, Holdsworth, Bettencourt, Sykes, Gary Moore, Van Halen, etc... "pretty good" just doesn't cut it. ;)

This is a commonly repeated argument from a lot of dedicated instrumentalists. It was the same argument that emerged in 1977 when the Sex Pistols became huge. Dedicated musicians complaining that these hacks were getting the fast track to success while those who had sweated over their technique and playing skills were getting pushed aside and ignored. However, I think it misses the point completely. The fact is, the general public couldn't care less about technique or skill, playing speed, chops, tone or any of the things that instrumentalists dedicate their time to studying and practising. The general public, as is reflected in record sales, are more attuned to songs, lyrics and fashion. The reason why the hair metal and shredding phase was so short lived is that none of the shredders were writing songs that the general public could relate to or found interesting. The songs were simply a backdrop for a guitar solo, to demonstrate the egocentric perspective of the guitarist, and to provide a platform for the self promotion of their skills. Banal, meaningless cliched lyrics, predictable arrangements, fabricated emotion and laughably pubescent videos. In essence, this isn't giving the listening public anything, instead it is asking them to admire the artist.

Bands like Nirvana and the Sex Pistols were the antithesis of that. They spoke through their songs and careless style, at the level of the lowest common denominator, to and for the younger generation of their time. They reflected the anger, disillusionment, and sense of displacement of their listening audience in a way that made their audience feel like they were getting something from them, like they were being given something through the songs. It was about the SONGS, not the guitar playing or the posturing, not the speed or technique or any other factor to which the general public can't relate. Rightly so then, that the shredders would only ever capture a niche market, other guitarists and pubescent boys, and the acts who were capable of writing SONGS would garner mass, global appeal.

Without songs to play and an audience to hear them, all of the technical skill on an instrument is virtually useless in providing a service to the public. It may serve as a personal discipline, or as a form of self indulgent entertainment for a small sector, but it has no mass appeal, and never will. For musicians to have missed this vital point is like being detached from reality. Sure, everyone is entitled to pursue whichever avenues of music they choose, but no-one should be surprised when they find that their egocentric approach receives little response from the public. Those who choose the path of providing a service to others with their abilities will increase their chances of being rewarded for it. This is not just an opinion, this is an observation throughout my own lifetime and career, through 26 years of being a professional musician with no other source of income. To the masses, music is about songs, not instrumental playing skills. If you want to argue that point, argue with the record sales of the past 50 years.


Cheers....................wahwah
 
Re: Hey, guys who were playing in the 80's....

This is not just an opinion, this is an observation throughout my own lifetime and career, through 26 years of being a professional musician with no other source of income.

er, that still makes it an opinion just like our comments are opinions as well. I am sure there are people that think the 80's was the end all and others that think the 90's was and others that think that Michael Jackson is God. Its all good and respected.

Sure there was ALOT of crap in that era, but there was alot of good IMO. Ozzy, Sabbath, ACDC and others to me wrote really cool music that expresses ME. It is a matter of personal taste really. I am not trying to convince to anyone anything.
I personally think that Nirvana was a breath of fresh air to the prettiness of the era, but it would be a long shot in my book to consider them anything of brilliant musicians. As it would also be difficult for me to consider almost all of the 'Shrapnel' label guitarists brilliant musicians as well.
Music changes according to the politics, drugs and other social events of the time. Nirvana was an answer to the 'cleaness' of that era. I dont think that people liked em cause they thought, "wow this is really brilliant music whereas Van Halen just is about guitar".
I dont think that it is worth us getting into an argument about 'my era kicked your eras butt'. It is ALL opinionated.
Some of us are just more into the stuff you think is silly and you are into stuff that some others think is silly. Who cares?

My purpose is not to all of a sudden see people on here go "wow, your right the 80's were amazing!" lol
Alot of it is just that it was my youth and times when my testosterone was through the roof and i was feeling euphoric i was listening to that music.

Nirvana is not the epitome of reality man. lol I mean ' lithium' might be some peoples reality but it wasnt and aint mine. My reality as silly as it sounds to some is romantic. They are just different schools of thought really. There will always be romantics and pacifists. Reality is different for all.

I for one couldnt stand some of the Brittny Fox, Poison, White lion bands, but Queensryche, Sabbath, Ozzy, Halen, etc... expressed me completely. I totally loved GnR as well. But it didnt express other emotions of mine. I for one am not one dimensional in my emotions. There are sometimes that i totally feel Johnny Rotten, others when i feel Lamb of God, others when i feel Peter Cetera, OZZY, Halen etc...


anyway you get the picture. I dont think it is accurate to sway in any direction. Me and some other nostalgic guys wrote some things that we miss or think are 'cooler' in OUR minds. Does this mean they are 'facts'? Not at all.
It is just the world according to me. And some other people can relate and vise versa. and others think we are dweebs.

If we anaylize record sales we can look at a myriad of other factors as well. The music market by no means has got smaller over the years. It can only get larger from more population to faster developing countries. In the 80's China wasnt a customer yet. By the way that is a about a cool 1 billion customers.
Plus the fact that people in the western world are just getting wealthier.

its all good dude. Just let us dream our cheesy 80's dreams. lol
cheers!
 
Re: Hey, guys who were playing in the 80's....

I didn't comment about anyone's right to like whatever music they choose. I was talking about the musician's argument that bands that play simple music and have huge success aren't valid because they don't attain a high technical standard of musicianship. I was negating this argument by saying that the record buying public at large tend more towards song driven music than technical proficiency. That's not an opinion, it's a fact supported by overwhelming evidence in sales.

One man's cheese is another man's holy grail, and everyone is entitled to like whatever appeals to them. Those are opinions. I don't have any 80's hair band albums in my collection, nor do I have any Nirvana. My favorite era in music was between 1965-1975, and I feel the same about that era as you do about the 80's. By the late 80's, I was in my late 20's, and I thought that music died with poodle rock and the GIT cookie cutter factory. But to somebody who grew up in that era, it can be the music that speaks for them and represents their teen years fondly. That's all fine, and has nothing to do with my original post.


Cheers....................wahwah
 
Re: Hey, guys who were playing in the 80's....

I'll just like to add that I've enjoyed the comments of Queensryche appreciation. My favourite band also!

Live in Tokyo is the best release ever.
 
Re: Hey, guys who were playing in the 80's....

Just to throw my two pen'orth in, my first 'pro' guitar (which I still have) was a Kramer Pacer Custom which I paid £750 (approx $1500) for brand new in 1987. That was about a month and a halfs wages at the time. However, you could pick up a used 70's Marshall JMP for about £175 (approx $350)!!!!! I even bought a Silver Jubilee 2553 head for £200!!!! Add about £150 for a Marshall 4x12 and £50 for a TS9 and that was the staple diet for local guitarists at the time. These days, you can't get old Marshalls for less than 4 times what we were paying in the 80's and we all know how much original TS9's go for. Ahhhh, the good old days!!!!:9:
 
Re: Hey, guys who were playing in the 80's....

Well this thread has evolved away from it's original topic, but I think all the emphasis on technique and speed in the 80's made guitar music evolve to a pretty meaningless state, by about 1990. It just became a parody of it's self. To me out of all the 80's guitar players it boils down to just a few:

EVH of course, but his main impact was in the early 80's, after about 1985, I wasn't as interested.

Slash, because he was still playing guitar music that mattered, and because it was real, and he had a great tone.

SRV!! SRV was one of the few guitar artists to come along since Hendrix and Clapton that was of the artistic caliber of Hendrix and Clapton. Let him rest in peace.............
 
Re: Hey, guys who were playing in the 80's....

This thread has indeed drifted away from it's original course. And it's pointless to argue about such a subjective thing as one's musical taste (though there's NO way I'll EVER believe that a band such as Lamb of God is a step FORWARD in musical evolution :rolleyes: ).

Back to gear... simply put... yeah, you could buy TS9's cheaper then. But cheap guitars and cheap amps were generally garbage and one had to scrimp and save for some time to be able to afford one of the big name items to get good tone. That has all changed with technology and higher quality cheap goods from the Far East.
 
Re: Hey, guys who were playing in the 80's....

Regarding vintage, is quality 80s gear starting to get regarded as vintagey? It's not really "vintage", but prices have been increasing over the last few years, after the rise of pages like vintagkramer.com, adadepot.com and the likes of those. I bought two MP-1s a year ago. They cost a whole lot more now than they did then. Same with a Peavey Vandenberg I got really cheap.
 
Re: Hey, guys who were playing in the 80's....

Back to gear... simply put... yeah, you could buy TS9's cheaper then. But cheap guitars and cheap amps were generally garbage and one had to scrimp and save for some time to be able to afford one of the big name items to get good tone. That has all changed with technology and higher quality cheap goods from the Far East.

Meh....yes and no.

I think alot of the issue was that gear from Japan was perceived as cheap and discredited as such. Now were finding that the first few years of MIJ and MIJ Squier axes are going for near what used MIA gear is.

Another one is the Ibanez Roadstar axes are climbing in value. There used to be a time for eighty bucks you could pick and choose on eBay and get a HSC with it. Not so much anymore because folks are realizing that the one they had before they upgraded to a MIA WAS as good as they remember it being.

Regarding vintage, is quality 80s gear starting to get regarded as vintagey? It's not really "vintage", but prices have been increasing over the last few years, after the rise of pages like vintagkramer.com, adadepot.com and the likes of those. I bought two MP-1s a year ago. They cost a whole lot more now than they did then. Same with a Peavey Vandenberg I got really cheap.

Technically twenty years is "vintage" which for a re-seller means they can market it as that.

Another aspect is I think alot of folks are going back and picking up gear they'd had to see how it suits them. Everyone has a story about "upgrading" and being disappointed and not coming to that conclusion until years later.
 
Re: Hey, guys who were playing in the 80's....

Very true. I remember selling a TS-808 for $35 in 1983, thinking at the time that I could always pick up another one if I ever needed it. Like everyone else at the time, when I heard a TS-9 I realized that the sound quality had fallen terribly, and that they would probably never be as good again. It wasn't until I got Dave Ulbrick to build me a 12AXE with original 808 parts that I got that sound back, albeit with a few preferable tweaks.

Also, I recently bought one of the original Ibanez Silver Series "lawsuit" Strats, which at the time ('78) were better than most new Fenders on the wall. I guess that makes it a vintage Ibanez!


Cheers..................wahwah
 
Re: Hey, guys who were playing in the 80's....

Speaking of those pre-1985 MIJ strats, were there any that were made with humbacker in the bridge, I've read a lot of good about those strats that are MIJ right after the end of CBS nightmare, kinda jonesing for one ...
 
Back
Top