hot rodded humbuckers - bridge sounds like neck and neck sounds like bridge?!

musicman777

New member
Hey everyone, signed up here as I have nowhere else to turn! I have a vintage Japanese Les Paul (picture attached). This guitar was my late mothers who passed away back in June. Considering it was hers, I decided to restore it. All the electronics were bad, it had these cheap, off-brand single coil pickups designed to look like humbuckers. I've been playing guitar for 14 years but NEVER dabbled in the electronics of one (although I am by no means a total amateur at wiring, I work on cars and computers).

I replaced all the wiring, put four brand new 250k pots in the guitar, a switchcraft three-way toggle switch, and last but not least, Seymour Duncan's "hot-rodded humbuckers" set I bought at Guitar Center. I didn't do any deep research on them; they were just the price-range I was looking at and I trust the Seymour Duncan name as I own a Schecter that came installed with SD's out of the factory that sound terrific.

So, the guitar works, it sounds great (to me), there's just one issue; the bridge pickup sounds like the neck, and the neck sounds like the bridge! I've attached an MP3 file of me playing some simple open chords to hear what I'm talking about. This is with all the volume and tone controls turned up. I play an E minor and G chord a few times; the first is with the toggle switch on rhythm, the second is the treble (neck), and the third is the middle toggle switch position. As you can hear, my rhythm (bridge) pickup sounds like the neck should, it's got a bright tone, whereas the neck (treble) has a lower, less brighter tone. The middle position sounds good to me, it doesn't sound like there's any sort of phase cancellation going on.

If you look at the photo, the picks up NOT installed backwards. And, I know I didn't put the toggle switch in backwards because you can tap on the bridge with a screwdriver when it's set to bridge, and you get sound from that pickup but none from the neck. Same when vice-versa on the neck. Everything sounds and plays exactly as it should, I followed all the diagrams, everything is soldered correctly to my knowledge. So why does my bridge have a bright sound? And why does the neck sound like the bridge pickup should???? Is it just these pickups or is something else going on here? Did I do something backwards?!
 

Attachments

Re: hot rodded humbuckers - bridge sounds like neck and neck sounds like bridge?!

"Rhythm" = neck = darker
Treble/"Lead" = bridge = brighter

That's just names from the olden days, most of the time it's not actually used as labelled anymore
 
Re: hot rodded humbuckers - bridge sounds like neck and neck sounds like bridge?!

Can you do a simple tap on each pickup with a screwdriver? You may have selected the neck when you think you're in the bridge position, and vice-versa. In other words, select the bridge pup, and tap (gently) on the neck and bridge, to see which one is actually active.

Btw . . . welcome to the forum, and nice axe.

Edit: Maybe I didn't read the whole post. It looks like you already did this test.
 
Last edited:
Re: hot rodded humbuckers - bridge sounds like neck and neck sounds like bridge?!

All is as it should be

What brand is that LP? Im always trying to build shopping lists of obscure Japanese names
 
Re: hot rodded humbuckers - bridge sounds like neck and neck sounds like bridge?!

Well the Jazz is a bright neck pickup and the JB can get pretty muddy in a Les Paul. So that might be your issue.
 
Re: hot rodded humbuckers - bridge sounds like neck and neck sounds like bridge?!

So why does my bridge have a bright sound? And why does the neck sound like the bridge pickup should???? Is it just these pickups or is something else going on here? Did I do something backwards?!

Bridge pickups sound bright. Neck pickups sound fuller. That’s the way it is on every guitar.

The technical reason is the strings vibrate in a wider arc towards the center of the string, so you have more output and a fuller tone. The tone gets thinner and brighter towards the bridge where the travel is smaller and you have more upper harmonics.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Re: hot rodded humbuckers - bridge sounds like neck and neck sounds like bridge?!

Shoot, I misread the original post. There is nothing wrong with your current setup.
 
Re: hot rodded humbuckers - bridge sounds like neck and neck sounds like bridge?!

Thanks for the replies; yes I'm starting to guess that maybe that's just the way these sound on this guitar! I was under the intention a neck pickup is always brighter? But yeah, maybe not in this case and on this guitar.

All is as it should be

What brand is that LP? Im always trying to build shopping lists of obscure Japanese names

I actually recorded four hours of footage for YouTube (I'm going to significantly cut that down) of me talking about and working on this guitar. :) This guitar is a "Sekova" brand guitar out of Japan. My mother bought it in the early 1970's at a music store in New Jersey, right outside of NYC. I've done a lot of research on it. Sekova is a Japanese imported guitar by "US Musical Merchandise Corporation of New York". Many parts of it (like the original tuners, which I replaced) had "Japan" written on them. They were made in the late 60's and 70's. There's several Sekova guitars floating around out there, many of them replicate the look and feel of popular guitars.

Many of them were sold without a name/brand on them. That is because of some big lawsuit by Gibson in the early 70's. They seen all these LP knockoffs coming out and started suing companies in the NYC that were distributing these guitars. Ibanez (where I think alot of parts for Sekova were manufactured) was one of the biggest targets. Hence, some of these (not all) of these are called "pre-lawsuit" les pauls. Unfortunately (for my case), I think Sekova was one of the cheaper brands of this guitar. The tuners sucked, the electronics were all crap, all the pots were crap, the toggle switch was bad. The pickups were really only single coils and had "MAXCH" written on them, which I found from scouring the deep corners of Google were some kind of Ibanez knockoff. THe selling point is the body; it does look and feel like a Les Paul. It's obviously a beautiful guitar.

I am probably going to be replacing the neck soon. It's... bad. It's slightly bent to the right, so the E string doesn't quite fit right over the neck. It's bowed a bit forward, the truss rod was incredibly hard to adjust and I stripped it trying to adjust it. All of the fret inlays stick out a little and aren't flush with the wood. I dremmeled them a bit down but it still ain't quite right. It's just time for a new neck on this one I think. Amazon got LP-style necks for around $40 bucks.
 
Re: hot rodded humbuckers - bridge sounds like neck and neck sounds like bridge?!

In your original post you mention
Rhythm(bridge)
Treble (neck)
You’ve got it backwards.
Flip the switch downward to the “treble” setting and you should be on the bridge pickup
Flip it up and that’s the neck pickup.
Do you have the pickups wired backwards at the switch?
 
Re: hot rodded humbuckers - bridge sounds like neck and neck sounds like bridge?!

The bolt-on models were the lowest-priced ones; the singlecoil pickups on those are usually pretty awful.

That doesn't necessarily mean it can't be made to sound good now.
 
Re: hot rodded humbuckers - bridge sounds like neck and neck sounds like bridge?!

My first guitar was a Sekova (got it in NJ, too) that was sort of a melted Strat shape. I played that thing to death. Congrats on reviving this instrument with a great story.
 
Re: hot rodded humbuckers - bridge sounds like neck and neck sounds like bridge?!

The bolt-on models were the lowest-priced ones; the singlecoil pickups on those are usually pretty awful.

That doesn't necessarily mean it can't be made to sound good now.

Interesting.

I keep hearing about these iffy MIj bolt-on pauls with single coils under bucker covers and unstable necks.... but, with the exception of a couple plywood Hondos, all the ones I've ever seen had rocksolid necks, hi-end tuners, Super 70s or great minihumbuckers (Ibanez, Westminster, Aria)

Wonder if natural selection put the crappy ones into dumpsters before I came of age??
 
Re: hot rodded humbuckers - bridge sounds like neck and neck sounds like bridge?!

In your original post you mention
Rhythm(bridge)
Treble (neck)
You’ve got it backwards.
Flip the switch downward to the “treble” setting and you should be on the bridge pickup
Flip it up and that’s the neck pickup.
Do you have the pickups wired backwards at the switch?

You know what, you've answered my question and thank you. It turns out I am a complete idiot. :headache: 28 years old, 14 years playing guitar, studying, learning to craft sounds on amps and computers, mixing, etc. And, I never knew how the guitar itself worked. I thought the pickup that produced the treble sound was the neck and the bridge was your bass-y/warm rhythm pickup. To reassure my stupidity I plugged my Schecter in and tapped on the pickups with a screwdriver. Yep; treble is the bridge. Honestly, no one ever told me. I just played the damn thing and assumed I knew which pickup did what sounds. I know flipping the toggle switch one way gave me warm tones and the other would give me high, never cared to learn which pickup was making that sound. All my guitars, including my prized Paul Reed Smith Torero I've had trusted friends/guitar people help pick out cause I'm no expert.

It turns out my only problem wasn't the guitar but my lack of knowledge for what sounds a guitar produced. I feel like my whole life a lie now! FORTUNATELY, I installed and wired everything correctly (the bridge is in the bridge and neck is in the neck and the pictures reassure the installation); I simply didn't know which sounds they produced. The problem has been solved by simply flipping my toggle switch the other way. :bigok:

This is part of why I chose to do this project, to help enlighten me on guitars. Despite having played them for so long, I just knew squat about the guitar itself; how it produces sound, how the volume/tone works, and (now obvious), what pickups make what sounds. Like I am as dumb is as dumb comes. The most I've ever done is changed strings on them. I'm also good at cleaning them coming from a dad that used to do autobody work, I know how to get the scratches out of them and clean up the neck. But the hardware, forget it. If they go to hell or I screw them up, I take them to the music shop. Oh well; I am not embarrassed, it is a learning experience. It only makes me wonder how much some of the pro guitar players over the years know about their instruments... if they're great players, but have other people set up their instruments and evan craft their sounds.

The bolt-on models were the lowest-priced ones; the singlecoil pickups on those are usually pretty awful.

That doesn't necessarily mean it can't be made to sound good now.

Honestly the pickups weren't that bad, but yeah, not great either. It certainly sounded better than what a squier or some even cheaper guitar comes with. But yeah, they had to go, and all my diagrams were for wiring humbuckers.

I keep hearing about these iffy MIj bolt-on pauls with single coils under bucker covers and unstable necks.... but, with the exception of a couple plywood Hondos, all the ones I've ever seen had rocksolid necks, hi-end tuners, Super 70s or great minihumbuckers (Ibanez, Westminster, Aria)

Yeah, the neck definitely sucks man. As I posted earlier, the thing is like, bent to the right a little, ALL of the fret markers are sticking out slightly so your strings bump them.
 
Re: hot rodded humbuckers - bridge sounds like neck and neck sounds like bridge?!

You know what, you've answered my question and thank you. It turns out I am a complete idiot. :headache: 28 years old, 14 years playing guitar, studying, learning to craft sounds on amps and computers, mixing, etc. And, I never knew how the guitar itself worked. I thought the pickup that produced the treble sound was the neck and the bridge was your bass-y/warm rhythm pickup. To reassure my stupidity I plugged my Schecter in and tapped on the pickups with a screwdriver. Yep; treble is the bridge. Honestly, no one ever told me. I just played the damn thing and assumed I knew which pickup did what sounds. I know flipping the toggle switch one way gave me warm tones and the other would give me high, never cared to learn which pickup was making that sound. All my guitars, including my prized Paul Reed Smith Torero I've had trusted friends/guitar people help pick out cause I'm no expert.

It turns out my only problem wasn't the guitar but my lack of knowledge for what sounds a guitar produced. I feel like my whole life a lie now! FORTUNATELY, I installed and wired everything correctly (the bridge is in the bridge and neck is in the neck and the pictures reassure the installation); I simply didn't know which sounds they produced. The problem has been solved by simply flipping my toggle switch the other way. :bigok:

This is part of why I chose to do this project, to help enlighten me on guitars. Despite having played them for so long, I just knew squat about the guitar itself; how it produces sound, how the volume/tone works, and (now obvious), what pickups make what sounds. Like I am as dumb is as dumb comes. The most I've ever done is changed strings on them. I'm also good at cleaning them coming from a dad that used to do autobody work, I know how to get the scratches out of them and clean up the neck. But the hardware, forget it. If they go to hell or I screw them up, I take them to the music shop. Oh well; I am not embarrassed, it is a learning experience. It only makes me wonder how much some of the pro guitar players over the years know about their instruments... if they're great players, but have other people set up their instruments and evan craft their sounds.



Honestly the pickups weren't that bad, but yeah, not great either. It certainly sounded better than what a squier or some even cheaper guitar comes with. But yeah, they had to go, and all my diagrams were for wiring humbuckers.



Yeah, the neck definitely sucks man. As I posted earlier, the thing is like, bent to the right a little, ALL of the fret markers are sticking out slightly so your strings bump them.

Awesome!! Glad we got it sorted out!!
 
Re: hot rodded humbuckers - bridge sounds like neck and neck sounds like bridge?!

If you do replace the neck keep the original one. Even warped it is nice to have.
I have see Sekova guitars but never one just like that. I like the look of it. Enjoy.
 
Re: hot rodded humbuckers - bridge sounds like neck and neck sounds like bridge?!

What's the body like? Pancake full thickness wood? Thick ply? Thin ply?
 
Back
Top