Hotrail out of phase on squier standard strat.

[yauckt]

Hello All,

I just wired this :



linked to the hotrail is a parallel / serie selector and a coil selector (for south coil).
linked to bridge pickup is a simple on / off selector.

Everything works fine except for the hotrail wich sound out of phase on himself and with any other pickups used. I already inverted hot and ground if the hotrail as i'm using a fender pickup in the configuration. The bridge pickup is a jazzmaster pickup (not a fender) and is already wired reverse (and is working in phase with the neck pickup and original middle pickup). What did i do wrong and how can i fix this out of phase problem ?


Thank you very much for your support.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Hotrail out of phase on squier standard strat.

I am confused. If you already reversed the wires it can't still be out of phase.

So you setup is:
- Fender SC
- Hotrails
- non-Fender SC already reversed to be in-phase with neck
?

 

[yauckt]

Re: Hotrail out of phase on squier standard strat.

I am confused. If you already reversed the wires it can't still be out of phase.

I'm confused too Yes, hot and ground are already reversed.

So you setup is:
- Fender SC
- Hotrails
- non-Fender SC already reversed to be in-phase with neck
?

Correct.

One thing to report : the bare wire from the hotrail is cut so not grounded to anything : can it be a cause?

 

[hermetico]

Re: Hotrail out of phase on squier standard strat.

I'm confused too Yes, hot and ground are already reversed.



Correct.

One thing to report : the bare wire from the hotrail is cut so not grounded to anything : can it be a cause?

Not. This will remove the shield of the pickup, potentially making it noiser but, not really related to the pickup itself.
Please, attach a diagram with which wires (color) did you solder to which lugs

 

[yauckt]

Re: Hotrail out of phase on squier standard strat.



So, the hotrail is out of phase with itself and of course, with any other pickups. I'm not sure the parallel / serie as well as the coil selector are working. Hard to say, any position used leads to a out of phase sound.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Hotrail out of phase on squier standard strat.

I would say to wire the hotrails using the colours you would normally do for SD mini toggles. Then once its right with itself, move the wires of the other pickups to suit.

 

[hermetico]

Re: Hotrail out of phase on squier standard strat.

If I am understanding what you want, you wanted a switch to split to OUTER coil (to be hum cancelling with singles) and a switch to choose between coils in series/parallel. If this is the case, this is what I would do:

SW1 = splitter
SW2 = serializer

Naming the lugs:

1 2
A B
3 4

wire SW1 as follows:
lug 1: open
lug 2: jumper to lug 3 AND jumper to lug 1 of SW2
lug A: black wire
lug B: red wire
lug 3: jumper to lug 2
lug 4: jumper to lug A of SW2

and SW2 as follows:
lug 1: jumper to lug 2 of SW1 and, jumper to 5-way (middle pickup position), this is your hot.
lug 2: green wire AND GROUND
lug A: jumper from lug 4 of SW1 AND jumper to lug 4 of SW2
lug B: white wire
lug 3: open
lug 4: jumper from lug A

 

[yauckt]

Re: Hotrail out of phase on squier standard strat.

Alright ! Thank you very much. I'll try to wire this this week end and will keep you posted.

Here's what i drawed based on your description :

 

[hermetico]

Re: Hotrail out of phase on squier standard strat.

Alright ! Thank you very much. I'll try to wire this this week end and will keep you posted.

Here's what i drawed based on your description :

Yup!. Those two switches match my instructions. Good luck!.

 

[yauckt]

Re: Hotrail out of phase on squier standard strat.

Sorry to beg you again...

Wired the stuff but bad luck, the hotrail still goes out of phase on itself. As soon as used with both coils on, pos 2 / 3 / 4 are out of phase. except for 1 position only (i think it will only provide sound when sw1 is up and sw2 down)
Being unsure wich position on the mini switch is serial or parallel, can you tell me exactly wich position on wich switch do what

Do you think that wiring the hotrail in a normal way (meaning, not reversing hot & ground), and then, reverse wires of neck & bridge pickup is supposed to make it ?

btw, checked your blog, nice work !!! Full of handy tips !!



Edit :

So handy that i found this :

should i give a try ? Seems Really cool !

 

[yauckt]

Re: Hotrail out of phase on squier standard strat.

Thinking about the issue, don't you think it can be caused by the cut ground wire of the hotrail? Maybe if i solder a new wire on it and solder it with the black wire of the hotrail it will change something?

 

[AlexR]

Re: Hotrail out of phase on squier standard strat.

If you only shift the ground and hot, then you need to look at swapping the middle two wires as well, as the whole pickup needs to be reversed if you are using the series connection.

As I said in my previous post, its best to wire the hotrails up according to duncan specs, then make the alterations with the other singlecoils.

And the cut ground wire (I'm assuming bare) is just to make sure the baseplate is grounded for buzz purposes. Solder it to the back of a pot.

 

[yauckt]

Re: Hotrail out of phase on squier standard strat.

Yes, it's the bare one that was cut but i will fix this and solder it to ground.

Thanks for your advices. I'll first try to invert white & red (less soldering pain), then if still not working, i'll follow your original idea.

 

[hermetico]

Re: Hotrail out of phase on squier standard strat.

Sorry to beg you again...

Wired the stuff but bad luck, the hotrail still goes out of phase on itself. As soon as used with both coils on, pos 2 / 3 / 4 are out of phase. except for 1 position only (i think it will only provide sound when sw1 is up and sw2 down)
Being unsure wich position on the mini switch is serial or parallel, can you tell me exactly wich position on wich switch do what

Do you think that wiring the hotrail in a normal way (meaning, not reversing hot & ground), and then, reverse wires of neck & bridge pickup is supposed to make it ?

btw, checked your blog, nice work !!! Full of handy tips !!



Edit :

So handy that i found this :

should i give a try ? Seems Really cool !

This would give you 4 different sounds.
when both are down, coils are in series.
When both are up, coils are in parallel.
When one is up and the other down, you will have one of the splits. So, one of those will be in-phase with your singles and, the other will be out-of-phase with your singles.
This, if your humbucker is working regularly.

But, are you saying that with every switch DOWN when you select position 3, the hot rail sounds weak, thin, hollow and nasal by itself?.
In that case, we should reverse just one coil, before doing further experiments.

Forget your switches for a while.
If you run the black wire to the middle lug of the 5-way, ground green and bare and, twist together red and white wires (wrapped with isolant tape).
What do you get?.
This is important, because, maybe you've fried some switch and, it's actually internally shorted. So, please, try first with your humbucker alone, without toggle switches.

 

[yauckt]

Re: Hotrail out of phase on squier standard strat.

This would give you 4 different sounds.
when both are down, coils are in series.
When both are up, coils are in parallel.
When one is up and the other down, you will have one of the splits. So, one of those will be in-phase with your singles and, the other will be out-of-phase with your singles.
This, if your humbucker is working regularly.

I have a pretty similar wiring on my jaguar, i think i will wire this diagram with no inversion on the hotrail then revert both single coils. I assume this will be ok.

But, are you saying that with every switch DOWN when you select position 3, the hot rail sounds weak, thin, hollow and nasal by itself?.
In that case, we should reverse just one coil, before doing further experiments.

Forget your switches for a while.
If you run the black wire to the middle lug of the 5-way, ground green and bare and, twist together red and white wires (wrapped with isolant tape).
What do you get?.

I know it to be working, i just removed it from my jaguar. Right now, my last attempt at wiring it in the strat provide the full humbucker to operate normally, but other positions are Out of Phase. (and damn, this hotrail in middle position is really sounding nice).

This is important, because, maybe you've fried some switch and, it's actually internally shorted. So, please, try first with your humbucker alone, without toggle switches.

gone soldering... thanx!

 

[yauckt]

Re: Hotrail out of phase on squier standard strat.

back, i finally soldered this

according to hermetico's webiste, this should show the SD color code i didn't reverted anything on the SD but I inverted neck & bridge pickup. Ladies & gentelman : Hotrails out of phase on itself !!! WTF?? Out of Phase when both switches down and up. Also, what is supposed to be the coils alone sounds... out of phase too (yes, no joke)!

Then i come with these question :
- Did SD color code changed within the years? This pickup was purchased in 1997 or 1998.
- Should i try to invert any wire of the hotrails ?

crap crap crap crap crap crap crap

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Hotrail out of phase on squier standard strat.

A coil by itself can't be out of phase. That's impossible. You only get phase issues when combining two coils.

A humbucker wired normally (green to ground, red and white together, black to output) will not sound out of phase with itself.

I think something else is going on here. What makes you think they sound out of phase? What are the symptoms?

 

[yauckt]

Re: Hotrail out of phase on squier standard strat.

I know about how to get out of phase pickup and i know how it sound (got a OOP position on ANY of my 5 guitars) and i'm telling the truth, even what is supposed to be coil alone positions sound out of phase (so : thin, nasal, like wah pedal pushed at max). That's why i ask if the color code is the same on SD pickups purchased back in 1997.

 

[hermetico]

Re: Hotrail out of phase on squier standard strat.

Maybe the wires of one of the coils was wrongly soldered. Just try to swap one of the coils. Swap white and black, by example and, let see if the pickup comes back to fase.

 

[yauckt]

Re: Hotrail out of phase on squier standard strat.

just reversed black & white : both up & both down : still out of phase, one coil split is now sounding OK. the other not.