How do they make the SGJs so much cheaper?

[jon the art guy]

Re: How do they make the SGJs so much cheaper?

It's the Lexus ES300 of guitars. You got a Camry/Epiphone, but paid a LIIIITTLE bit more for a Lexus/Gibson.

 

[Adieu]

Re: How do they make the SGJs so much cheaper?

How are you going to get people "used to playing their stuff and spending [their] money with them in the future" with a lousy guitar? Pretty insane buisiness model.

These are about half the price of a standard on sale or with a coupon. That 500 bucks is easily eaten up by doing a complicated nitro finish. Whether you believe in the merits of nitro or not, it is really time consuming and labour intesive to work with. Same with neck binding etc.

The ones I have played were all very good instruments. I may have just gotten lucky, but I think they are worth checking out.

V.

Same way squier, epi, gio, and ltd get it done...sell people an affordable costcut product, have them start aching for the "real thing" after a while. If not for that pesky used market, it'd work almost 100% of the time (not counting guys who quit for good).

Hell, for all my grumbling, bought meself a used ESP fifteen years after my truly shoddy childhood LTD. Probably would have bought a gibby SG standard too, after a faded I briefly owned - but fortunately got commissiomed to find a customer an SG Standard & do some upgrades on it, and in the process realized that I didn't really "get" it. Just mildly disenchanted, mind you, the thing was pretty decent, whether with the 498/490 set or the 81's he had me drop in - but it wasn't THAT different from the Korean Viper 400 I pulled those EMGs from...and, since the operation netted me a free gutted viper & some gibson guts... Anyway, after doing that plus work on a couple flying vees, I came to the conclusion that, among production gibsons, the only ones I personally like are Explorers and LP Standards. Well, maybe those Trad-whatevers (pluses? pros? I forget) too.

 

[blueman335]

Re: How do they make the SGJs so much cheaper?

These are about half the price of a standard on sale or with a coupon. That 500 bucks is easily eaten up by doing a complicated nitro finish. Whether you believe in the merits of nitro or not, it is really time consuming and labour intesive to work with.

You do realize that the nitro used anymore has plastics in it and is very different than the nitro of the 1950's and 1960's. It's halfway to being poly. There was a detailed post about it here a few months ago. So I question just how much time and labor the current-formula nitro takes. I bet most guitar makers have found some significant savings there.

 

[superpete]

Re: How do they make the SGJs so much cheaper?

They are nice guitars, great bang for the buck IMO, but the savings aren't hidden. They are made from more pieces of wood than normal, they aren't finished, and there's no binding. I could be wrong but i don't think that they come with a case or bag either. all said, they aren't really THAT much cheaper. Yes, they are less expensive, but it's not some mind crippling calculation. you're looking at it backwards. The magic isn't making a $1300 SG $500 with a different finish; the magic is selling an $800 guitar for $1300, then selling it with no finish or binding and making people think they are getting a screaming deal.

 

[blueman335]

Re: How do they make the SGJs so much cheaper?

The magic isn't making a $1300 SG $500 with a different finish; the magic is selling an $800 guitar for $1300, then selling it with no finish or binding and making people think they are getting a screaming deal.

Good point. Players are so used to seeing overpriced Gibsons, that anything in an affordable range blows their minds.

 

[Brian Krashpad]

Re: How do they make the SGJs so much cheaper?

They are nice guitars, great bang for the buck IMO, but the savings aren't hidden. They are made from more pieces of wood than normal, they aren't finished, and there's no binding. I could be wrong but i don't think that they come with a case or bag either. all said, they aren't really THAT much cheaper. Yes, they are less expensive, but it's not some mind crippling calculation. you're looking at it backwards. The magic isn't making a $1300 SG $500 with a different finish; the magic is selling an $800 guitar for $1300, then selling it with no finish or binding and making people think they are getting a screaming deal.

No, they come with the standard Gibson triangle gigbag.

The finish is meh, but the rest of the guitar is fine. Intonation needed little if any adjustment, no prob with frets, controls or holding tuning. I got mine for $339.32 USD shipped from Musician's Friend. MF blew them out for $399, and I got an additional 15% off using a Black Friday discount code. I spent another $30 to gussy her up a bit, but yeah, an American-made SG for $340 shipped is in fact a pretty screaming deal.

 

[superpete]

Re: How do they make the SGJs so much cheaper?

No, they come with the standard Gibson triangle gigbag.

The finish is meh, but the rest of the guitar is fine. Intonation needed little if any adjustment, no prob with frets, controls or holding tuning. I got mine for $339.32 USD shipped from Musician's Friend. MF blew them out for $399, and I got an additional 15% off using a Black Friday discount code. I spent another $30 to gussy her up a bit, but yeah, an American-made SG for $340 shipped is in fact a pretty screaming deal.

$340 is a great deal to be sure. At that price there no reason we all shouldn't own them. But i'm not talking about a blowout price on last years model with a black friday coupon. That guitar is different than the $499 SGJ that I was talking about. It looks like the 2013 version, which was actually $599 originally. The 2014 version has different pickups, doesn't come in white and has the 120th anniversary inlay at the 12th fret. No pickguard either. But i stand corrected on the gig bag. Anyway my point wasn't that they were crappy guitars. I like them, but it's not a secret to me how they can sell them at $500 and make a profit even though most gibson sgs are in the 1-2000K range.

 

[Adieu]

Re: How do they make the SGJs so much cheaper?

Are those stock pups with lids pulled, Brian?

 

[Hairmail]

Re: How do they make the SGJs so much cheaper?

I mean looking at the price these seem like really great guitars, but you can see pretty clearly where they've tried to cut costs. The black backs and satin finishes are the most obvious ones.

I am curious about the new pickups they put on those though, the '61 pickups are certainly interesting, asymmetrical coils, high(ish) output and A5 magnets, lets see if they're any better than the 490R/498T combo that came on last years models

 

[Brian Krashpad]

Re: How do they make the SGJs so much cheaper?

Are those stock pups with lids pulled, Brian?

No, although that's what I would've preferred doing. A friend of mine got one before I did, and discovered that they're constructed to not come apart the way one can do with a regular metal cover. I have not checked myself, but I have known her for a good long while (via internet, anyhow), so I abandoned any attempt to take the covers off.

So I did the next best thing. Spent $10 for white Bobbin Toppers, which are just little vinyl cling covers intended to be put on top of open-coil 'buckers or Fender-style singles, and stuck 'em straight on top of the ugly black covers. Gives the illusion of open coils, but is completely reversible:

Also, note that because the SGJ (at least the '13 version) is 24-fret, the stock pickguard I bought had to be cut down to fit. Fortunately I have an electric mitre saw, and all the necessary cuts were straight lines, to the "tab" between the pickups and the edge of the pickguard that butts up against the treble edge of the pickup rings. I cut it close enough that the pickguard stays on simply due to the tab fitting closely, but have also put double-sided tape on the underside where screws would go. Again, completely reversible.

 

[stringbender11]

Re: How do they make the SGJs so much cheaper?

The few examples I've seen of the SGJ and LPJ were all used, and all nice guitars. Very well put together, imo. Yeah they're not as finished as the higher priced models but there's nothing wrong with them. It's funny how some people bash everything that isnt top of the line. Get serious, there are some great deals out there these days.

 

[Adieu]

Re: How do they make the SGJs so much cheaper?

No, although that's what I would've preferred doing. A friend of mine got one before I did, and discovered that they're constructed to not come apart the way one can do with a regular metal cover. I have not checked myself, but I have known her for a good long while (via internet, anyhow), so I abandoned any attempt to take the covers off.

So I did the next best thing. Spent $10 for white Bobbin Toppers, which are just little vinyl cling covers intended to be put on top of open-coil 'buckers or Fender-style singles, and stuck 'em straight on top of the ugly black covers. Gives the illusion of open coils, but is completely reversible:

Also, note that because the SGJ (at least the '13 version) is 24-fret, the stock pickguard I bought had to be cut down to fit. Fortunately I have an electric mitre saw, and all the necessary cuts were straight lines, to the "tab" between the pickups and the edge of the pickguard that butts up against the treble edge of the pickup rings. I cut it close enough that the pickguard stays on simply due to the tab fitting closely, but have also put double-sided tape on the underside where screws would go. Again, completely reversible.

Wow.... Pretty lookin stickers. Had me 110% fooled.

Anyone ever try em on emgs/blackouts, preferably on some innocuous looking guitar, for a balls-to-the-walls sleeper that totally doesnt look the part? Hehee, maybe a glitter pink Daisy Rock lol

 

[Adieu]

Re: How do they make the SGJs so much cheaper?

The few examples I've seen of the SGJ and LPJ were all used, and all nice guitars. Very well put together, imo. Yeah they're not as finished as the higher priced models but there's nothing wrong with them. It's funny how some people bash everything that isnt top of the line. Get serious, there are some great deals out there these days.

Its not about top of anything, just guys whove been disappointed by Gibsons qc/attention to detail on MUCH pricier models being cautious about something you can get for 340 on sale day...

We're not judging for $, just cautious in that way girls get on the rebound after a bad relationship. Gibby broke our GAS'in hearts before

Itd be difficult to expect that they hold em to more rigorous standards than expensive ones, you know? And cheaper materials & parts tend to be far less forgiving of sloppy install as well, whether by being more less rigid and fragile (catastrophic potential of softer woods with cheaper truss rods, for example), having less adjustment range to compensate (think unadjustable wraparound vs 360 degrees of adjustment in three planes for each individual kahler saddle), etc

 

[Mect87]

Re: How do they make the SGJs so much cheaper?

I dream for years to buy a LP std but 3000 its to expensive for me, last year gibson came out with this 2 models lpj and sgj and i do my research about this if you compare a sgj and sg std in gibson web page you will be amazed that its the same guitar only that the sgj dont have the finish, remember that labor hand in usa its very expensive and that finish its the most dificult part of making that guitars in time speaking. i have now my LPJ and its owesome sounds like a std its just the kind of sound you want from a gibson and if you search the web and forums you never gona find a bad review about this to guitars sounds very beautifull and remember one thing 700 dollars cost each of this guitars when they come out in market and thats not cheap, only its cheaper than 2000 or 3000. sorry about my english its not my native lenguage and i hope my opinion helps you out!

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: How do they make the SGJs so much cheaper?

Older forumites will recall Gibson's stripped down models of the late Srventies and early Eighties - The Paul, The SG and the "Firebrand" versions of each.

Same general concept. Not-so-pretty wood, minimal bling, less labour intensive finishing.

For a while, people dig the price and enjoy the guitars. Eventually, there comes a yearning for colour, bold inlays and binding.

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: How do they make the SGJs so much cheaper?

Insert hand in sphincter, magically pull out numbers from some else's business model.

 

[hydro]

Re: How do they make the SGJs so much cheaper?

I bought one. It needs a setup, but for a meat & potatoes guitar it's great.

The '61 zebra pups in it retail from Gibson for like $175 or something? So that's 1/3 of the price of the guitar right there. I like these pickups although I bought the guitar with the intention of swapping in bucker sized P90s.

The 24 fret deal is kinda cool too. Mine had a couple of finish flaws, like either dust or splinters that the satin finish didn't flatten out. But I bought it with the goal of being a beater, so it's no big deal. I bought it unseen off GC's website and I've never done that before, but it turned out OK.

 

[chadd]

Re: How do they make the SGJs so much cheaper?

I've only seen a handful of them and played most of them. I don't think there was one that I would have taken if someone had given it to me for free. I'm not a price snob, but all of the ones I played would have required significant work and replacement parts to be worth playing.

 

[Davii]

Re: How do they make the SGJs so much cheaper?

I've not seen the cheaper SG stuff, only some of the Les Pauls. Having seen the prices online, I'd been toying with the idea of a half decent 2nd Gibson to mess around with, but didn't get the opportunity at the time to try anyout. The finishes weren't all that, and all had multiple piece backs, but I could live with that if the neck feels good - something that could be turned into a project, that I'd probably never consider with more expensive models.

 

[hydro]

Re: How do they make the SGJs so much cheaper?

I've not seen the cheaper SG stuff, only some of the Les Pauls. Having seen the prices online, I'd been toying with the idea of a half decent 2nd Gibson to mess around with, but didn't get the opportunity at the time to try anyout. The finishes weren't all that, and all had multiple piece backs, but I could live with that if the neck feels good - something that could be turned into a project, that I'd probably never consider with more expensive models.

I think that's what drew me to get one - the idea that "here's an SG I can jack around with and not be too uptight about keeping its value".