HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid
- Thread starter BachToRock
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Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid
Ive got an A2 hybrid laying around and I am going to put it into a custom superstrat eventually, i just wonder what wood should i order my body? i guess with mahongany this is kinda just a paf sorta tone, but with ash i imagine it would give a sorta EVH sound (i dont care if its exact, but close is cool). what about alder? any other ideas?
Ive got an A2 hybrid laying around and I am going to put it into a custom superstrat eventually, i just wonder what wood should i order my body? i guess with mahongany this is kinda just a paf sorta tone, but with ash i imagine it would give a sorta EVH sound (i dont care if its exact, but close is cool). what about alder? any other ideas?
Roddy
New member
Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid
Mahogany is going to be very warm and fat..alder will have more attack...Ash will be very bright
Mahogany is going to be very warm and fat..alder will have more attack...Ash will be very bright
sumitagarwal
New member
Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid
I have a general question about mismatched coil humbuckers: does using mismatched coils typically tighten or loosen bass response and bottom end?
I have a general question about mismatched coil humbuckers: does using mismatched coils typically tighten or loosen bass response and bottom end?
BachToRock
New member
Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid
I would say that is more affected by magnet choice...
sumitagarwal
New member
Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid
That makes sense to me, but so would you say that mismatched coils largely leave the bottom end unaffected? From what I've been reading it seems like mismatched coils have the greatest affect on top end, especially around the resonant peaks.
That makes sense to me, but so would you say that mismatched coils largely leave the bottom end unaffected? From what I've been reading it seems like mismatched coils have the greatest affect on top end, especially around the resonant peaks.
BachToRock
New member
Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid
The two different resonant peaks definitly flatten out the frequency response of the pickup for a more even tone... I would say there is increased clarity than actual frequency emphasis in any one region.
The two different resonant peaks definitly flatten out the frequency response of the pickup for a more even tone... I would say there is increased clarity than actual frequency emphasis in any one region.
Luke Duke
PRSlustologist
Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid
I don't have the software but I own two 78s and an aged A5 doble screw Hybrid and they sound RADICALLY different.
The Hybrid is much thicker less spongy and less aggressive.
Luke
I don't have the software but I own two 78s and an aged A5 doble screw Hybrid and they sound RADICALLY different.
The Hybrid is much thicker less spongy and less aggressive.
Luke
IanBallard
New member
Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid
Have you tried it with an A2? Mine is screw(59)/slug(Custom) and when it had the A2, it was VERY Van Halen-ish. With the A8, not so much, but I prefer the more even EQ and "harder" response of the A8, over the A2 which was very spongy.
Have you tried it with an A2? Mine is screw(59)/slug(Custom) and when it had the A2, it was VERY Van Halen-ish. With the A8, not so much, but I prefer the more even EQ and "harder" response of the A8, over the A2 which was very spongy.
Luke Duke
PRSlustologist
Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid
No I have not. The A5 is aged so it falls into being between A2 and A5 tonally. An A2 is less aggressive sounding than the A5 so I just can't imagine it would beat out the 78 in aggression.
No I have not. The A5 is aged so it falls into being between A2 and A5 tonally. An A2 is less aggressive sounding than the A5 so I just can't imagine it would beat out the 78 in aggression.
fourdogslong
New member
Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid
I really like this hybrid pickup idea, I didn't know about it until recently.
I am waiting for my warmoth guitar to arrive and I'll need 2 humbucker for it, it's a LP style guitar, korina body with maple top and wenge neck with ebony fretboard.
I want to have a good split sound because I am so used to play with strats and tele, I still wanna be able to get that familiar sound.
The JB seems to sound really good split from the clips I heard, is it pretty much the best SD pickup to split?
I had one in an Ibanez JS100 I had and I liked it, never tried it splited at that time though, but sometimes I thought it was kind of thin, sometimes its output seemed too high, some other time it seemed too low... never totally satisfied with it.
I keep reading about the hybrid being made with a custom, is it the SH5?
If so, from the samples I heard, I don't really like it and I don't see how it would compliment a 59... to me they sound similar, one being more congested than the other.
The 2 pickups that I think would compliment each other are the JB and the Seth Lover.
The Seth Lover has a deep and sort of resonant bass which I like and the JB has the clarity and could be used for the split sound.
What do you think about that idea? Anybody tried it already?
thanks guys
I really like this hybrid pickup idea, I didn't know about it until recently.
I am waiting for my warmoth guitar to arrive and I'll need 2 humbucker for it, it's a LP style guitar, korina body with maple top and wenge neck with ebony fretboard.
I want to have a good split sound because I am so used to play with strats and tele, I still wanna be able to get that familiar sound.
The JB seems to sound really good split from the clips I heard, is it pretty much the best SD pickup to split?
I had one in an Ibanez JS100 I had and I liked it, never tried it splited at that time though, but sometimes I thought it was kind of thin, sometimes its output seemed too high, some other time it seemed too low... never totally satisfied with it.
I keep reading about the hybrid being made with a custom, is it the SH5?
If so, from the samples I heard, I don't really like it and I don't see how it would compliment a 59... to me they sound similar, one being more congested than the other.
The 2 pickups that I think would compliment each other are the JB and the Seth Lover.
The Seth Lover has a deep and sort of resonant bass which I like and the JB has the clarity and could be used for the split sound.
What do you think about that idea? Anybody tried it already?
thanks guys
Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid
oh boy, where should I begin to de-bunk the wrong ideas you seem to have?
first of all, a JB split sounds REALLY nice, agreed. but a stagmag sounds nice too, and a distortion sounds nice too, and a fullshred sounds nice too.
ok, the custom and 59 discussion. the custom and '59 are 2 pickups which are essentially PAF-clones, where the custom is a bit hotter and tighter and crunchier. if you want more output, more dynamics, more harmonics, a broader tone, and a bit more output, you can either try to wind a '59 with more winds, to boost it, which will eventually result in a mushy tone which is too warm, or underwind the custom, which will end in a thin, squeeky tone. so, what you need to do, is have one coil of the one and one coil of the other. its not only about complementing the 'tones' of eachother. you're trying to match resonant peakes, resonant frequencies and inductances together! and yes, thats a bit over your league, I know. but some guys here have 'natural' feeling on how to make a great hybrid, and some (like me) try to calculate it (I do it, because its my job to do so).
a seth lover has a 42awg, slightly underwound, unwaxpotted coil. the jb has a 44awg, 'sweetwound', waxpotted coil. that really won't work together. How can you truly say the seth has a 'deep resonant bass'? its a very bright, jangly pickup, like an old PAF!
you want 2 coils which are approximately alike in terms of having the same amounts of copper on the bobbin.and the seth has not enough copper on the bobbin to keep up with the JB. it will sound buzzy, with a lot of 60hz hum, cause it won't be humcanceling.
for ferther reading: look up dimarzio's patent # 4501185.
really, try to read through the topic to see where your line of thought went wrong.
oh, and one more thing. 'familiar tone', strats and tele's, and that from a les paul? you'll need more than just hybrid pickups and a good coil for split-tones. and I think I can tell, cause I have 14 warmoth les pauls, and almost all of them have a hybrid pickup. you need, for instance, reverse polarity, out of phase, and a trem to get into 'fenderish' territory on a les paul.
oh boy, where should I begin to de-bunk the wrong ideas you seem to have?
first of all, a JB split sounds REALLY nice, agreed. but a stagmag sounds nice too, and a distortion sounds nice too, and a fullshred sounds nice too.
ok, the custom and 59 discussion. the custom and '59 are 2 pickups which are essentially PAF-clones, where the custom is a bit hotter and tighter and crunchier. if you want more output, more dynamics, more harmonics, a broader tone, and a bit more output, you can either try to wind a '59 with more winds, to boost it, which will eventually result in a mushy tone which is too warm, or underwind the custom, which will end in a thin, squeeky tone. so, what you need to do, is have one coil of the one and one coil of the other. its not only about complementing the 'tones' of eachother. you're trying to match resonant peakes, resonant frequencies and inductances together! and yes, thats a bit over your league, I know. but some guys here have 'natural' feeling on how to make a great hybrid, and some (like me) try to calculate it (I do it, because its my job to do so).
a seth lover has a 42awg, slightly underwound, unwaxpotted coil. the jb has a 44awg, 'sweetwound', waxpotted coil. that really won't work together. How can you truly say the seth has a 'deep resonant bass'? its a very bright, jangly pickup, like an old PAF!
you want 2 coils which are approximately alike in terms of having the same amounts of copper on the bobbin.and the seth has not enough copper on the bobbin to keep up with the JB. it will sound buzzy, with a lot of 60hz hum, cause it won't be humcanceling.
for ferther reading: look up dimarzio's patent # 4501185.
really, try to read through the topic to see where your line of thought went wrong.
oh, and one more thing. 'familiar tone', strats and tele's, and that from a les paul? you'll need more than just hybrid pickups and a good coil for split-tones. and I think I can tell, cause I have 14 warmoth les pauls, and almost all of them have a hybrid pickup. you need, for instance, reverse polarity, out of phase, and a trem to get into 'fenderish' territory on a les paul.
fourdogslong
New member
Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid
I am only refering to the SD samples on their website, I don't have experience with a lot of their pickups.
Like I said I used to have a JB in an Ibanez basswood guitar.
Before that I tried a SH6 distortion, didn't like it but I was using it with a 250K pot, that might have been the reason why I didn't like it.
And the other pickup I had in this same Ibanez guitar was a 59 at the neck, it sounded good.
I red pretty much the whole thread 2-3 months ago but I was still curious about that combinaison.
You combined a JB with a Jazz right?
Aren't those two pickups completely different? How does it sound?
I know I won't get a tele tone with my LP even with a split pickup but from the samples I heard of the JB split in a LP, it should be good enough for me, I still have a strat and a tele at my disposal anyway.
So up to now, what are the hybrid combinaison that have been tested succesfully?
I am only refering to the SD samples on their website, I don't have experience with a lot of their pickups.
Like I said I used to have a JB in an Ibanez basswood guitar.
Before that I tried a SH6 distortion, didn't like it but I was using it with a 250K pot, that might have been the reason why I didn't like it.
And the other pickup I had in this same Ibanez guitar was a 59 at the neck, it sounded good.
I red pretty much the whole thread 2-3 months ago but I was still curious about that combinaison.
You combined a JB with a Jazz right?
Aren't those two pickups completely different? How does it sound?
I know I won't get a tele tone with my LP even with a split pickup but from the samples I heard of the JB split in a LP, it should be good enough for me, I still have a strat and a tele at my disposal anyway.
So up to now, what are the hybrid combinaison that have been tested succesfully?
fourdogslong
New member
Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid
Concerning the Custom, the OP was refering to the SH-11 and SH-14 right?
The SH-14 seems to be super bright, how can it add body to the 59? Just curious...
Concerning the Custom, the OP was refering to the SH-11 and SH-14 right?
The SH-14 seems to be super bright, how can it add body to the 59? Just curious...
GoldenVulture
Braindeadologist
Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid
Maybe you'd be better off discussing "inductance " rather than proffessing greater knowledge, as inductance is a priciple that extends far beyond pickups. Chances are many of the electronically enlightened here are well aware of the principles and practices of Inductance.:smack:
This from the Original Poster on this page.#527. Page 27 [ note the thread is as old as this forum -
12-02-2004, 08:10 AM #1 BachToRock
Toneologist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Arizona
Age: 46
Posts: 837
]
[QUOTE]you're trying to match resonant peakes, resonant frequencies and inductances together! and yes, thats a bit over your league,[/QUOTE]
So why would I pay any attention to this?
And this is a bit arrogant. You presume no-one here or in the lenghth and breadth of this thread, that this is so, I venture to say you're wrong. You may be paid to work on such things but you don't neccesarily know any better than others here.
Maybe you'd be better off discussing "inductance " rather than proffessing greater knowledge, as inductance is a priciple that extends far beyond pickups. Chances are many of the electronically enlightened here are well aware of the principles and practices of Inductance.:smack:
This from the Original Poster on this page.#527. Page 27 [ note the thread is as old as this forum -
Toneologist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Arizona
Age: 46
Posts: 837
]
You
[QUOTE]you're trying to match resonant peakes, resonant frequencies and inductances together! and yes, thats a bit over your league,[/QUOTE]
So why would I pay any attention to this?
Or anything else you wrote.
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Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid
So why would I pay any attention to this?
Or anything else you wrote.[/QUOTE]
calculating is indeed over 99.9% of the world's population's league. It involves triple integrals and coordinate transformations. Can you do it? I seriously, highly, doubt it.
the statement that 'adding the 2 resonant peaks' flattens out is not true. I don't have the time (now) to calculate it.
about inductance: it goes without saying that inductance isn't only limited to pickups. inductance is something that goes around with almost everything we do. but there's little as complicated as a guitarpickup when it comes to inductance and selfinductance. Just imagine this. 2 coils, each having their own current, inducing a current in the other coil, also creating a magnetic field, on top of the magnetic field from the permanent magnet, creating an induced current of its own.
and on a symmetrical pickup they cancel eachother out, but on a hybrid, some parts are cancelled, and most of them are not.
And this is a bit arrogant. You presume no-one here or in the lenghth and breadth of this thread, that this is so, I venture to say you're wrong. You may be paid to work on such things but you don't neccesarily know any better than others here.
Maybe you'd be better off discussing "inductance " rather than proffessing greater knowledge, as inductance is a priciple that extends far beyond pickups. Chances are many of the electrincally enlightened here are well aware of the principles and practices of Inductance.:smack:
This from the Original Poster on this page.#527. Page 27 [ note the thread is as old as this forum -12-02-2004, 08:10 AM #1 BachToRock
Toneologist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Arizona
Age: 46
Posts: 837
]
You
[QUOTE]you're trying to match resonant peakes, resonant frequencies and inductances together! and yes, thats a bit over your league,
So why would I pay any attention to this?
Or anything else you wrote.[/QUOTE]
calculating is indeed over 99.9% of the world's population's league. It involves triple integrals and coordinate transformations. Can you do it? I seriously, highly, doubt it.
the statement that 'adding the 2 resonant peaks' flattens out is not true. I don't have the time (now) to calculate it.
about inductance: it goes without saying that inductance isn't only limited to pickups. inductance is something that goes around with almost everything we do. but there's little as complicated as a guitarpickup when it comes to inductance and selfinductance. Just imagine this. 2 coils, each having their own current, inducing a current in the other coil, also creating a magnetic field, on top of the magnetic field from the permanent magnet, creating an induced current of its own.
and on a symmetrical pickup they cancel eachother out, but on a hybrid, some parts are cancelled, and most of them are not.
GoldenVulture
Braindeadologist
Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid
calculating is indeed over 99.9% of the world's population's league. It involves triple integrals and coordinate transformations. Can you do it? I seriously, highly, doubt it.
the statement that 'adding the 2 resonant peaks' flattens out is not true. I don't have the time (now) to calculate it.
about inductance: it goes without saying that inductance isn't only limited to pickups. inductance is something that goes around with almost everything we do. but there's little as complicated as a guitarpickup when it comes to inductance and selfinductance. Just imagine this. 2 coils, each having their own current, inducing a current in the other coil, also creating a magnetic field, on top of the magnetic field from the permanent magnet, creating an induced current of its own.
and on a symmetrical pickup they cancel eachother out, but on a hybrid, some parts are cancelled, and most of them are not.[/QUOTE]
Your right. I've got no idea how electrons work let alone apply a bit of mathmataically based formulae, relative to the particular process that might be happening at the time.
I don't know what I was thinking. i must've been off on some airy fairy premise about hacking and going against the rules. Of course everyone knows theory works better than practice.:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:
Oh yeah ; and some rubbish about getting rid of the inducted AC hum, which still seems to work pretty well in hybrids, but I guess it's too narrow a frequency range for two mismatched coils to encompass. And of course it wouldn't work in theory.
What WAS I thinking!:banghead:
I need coils that cancell everything and are totally silent.:banghead:
I wonder if the Silver ones do that?
calculating is indeed over 99.9% of the world's population's league. It involves triple integrals and coordinate transformations. Can you do it? I seriously, highly, doubt it.
the statement that 'adding the 2 resonant peaks' flattens out is not true. I don't have the time (now) to calculate it.
about inductance: it goes without saying that inductance isn't only limited to pickups. inductance is something that goes around with almost everything we do. but there's little as complicated as a guitarpickup when it comes to inductance and selfinductance. Just imagine this. 2 coils, each having their own current, inducing a current in the other coil, also creating a magnetic field, on top of the magnetic field from the permanent magnet, creating an induced current of its own.
and on a symmetrical pickup they cancel eachother out, but on a hybrid, some parts are cancelled, and most of them are not.[/QUOTE]
Your right. I've got no idea how electrons work let alone apply a bit of mathmataically based formulae, relative to the particular process that might be happening at the time.
I don't know what I was thinking. i must've been off on some airy fairy premise about hacking and going against the rules. Of course everyone knows theory works better than practice.:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:
Oh yeah ; and some rubbish about getting rid of the inducted AC hum, which still seems to work pretty well in hybrids, but I guess it's too narrow a frequency range for two mismatched coils to encompass. And of course it wouldn't work in theory.
What WAS I thinking!:banghead:
I need coils that cancell everything and are totally silent.:banghead:
I wonder if the Silver ones do that?
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dvadneau
New member
Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid
@ fourdogslong - The SH5, SH11, and SH14 are the same pickup just with a different magnet. The Custom (SH5) was the first and it uses a ceramic magnet. The Custom Custom (SH11) uses an Alnico 2. The Custom 5 (SH14) uses an Alnico 5 magnet. The magnet matters a lot in the frequencies and response of the pickup, made very evident by the fact that there are 3 products based on this fact.
The hybrid at the start of this thread was an SH11, but it could have been any of the Custom pickups. The 59 uses an Alnico 5 magnet, so if you took a SH14 and 59 and combined them you would get two hybrids, both based on an Alnico 5. They won't be exactly the same, for a few reasons, but you wouldn't have to worry about what magnet was in which pickup.
Further experimentation involves swapping different magnets. A favourite of a few seems to be an Alnico 8.
Personally, I've combined a TB14 and TB59, which are just the wider-spaced versions of the Seymour Duncan humbuckers (trembuckers), and I really like one but not the other. For whatever reason, whether it just happens to be the mix of the two coils, or something else, I only like the one. I've tried it in both the bridge and neck and it's great, where the other I don't like in either position in a few guitars I've tried.
If you combined an SH11 or SH5 with a 59 you'd have a choice as to what magnet to put in what hybrid.
You mentioned the SH14 was bright to you. It's not overly bright, but may seem like that in some guitars. Because of the Alnico 5, and the wind I would guess, it has scooped mids and big lows and highs. But, in the guitars I've tried I haven't found it too bright. Generally it has a tighter sound, especially compared to an SH11. Personally, I've like the SH11 more often than the SH14. I did like the SH14 in the neck of one guitar though.
If you're going off of the sound examples on the SD site, remember, they're all taken from a recording of the same guitar on the same equipment with the same settings, and so certain pickups may not sound very good, taken strictly in that context.
If you've used a JB, for instance, and you really know what that sounds like, listen to the JB clips and try to use that as a reference when listening to the other pickup clips. In that way you will get more of a comparison of frequencies, attack, etc., instead of expecting the pickup to sound like what's in the clip. If a pickup sounds bright in those clips, it may just be that it will tend to enhance the upper range, and/or just happens to bring out some frequencies in the guitar used that don't sound particularly pleasing.
Maybe you already know that, but I really didn't realize that myself when I first started really getting into pickup swapping and tone chasing.
I know I didn't particularly care for a few pickups from the sound clips, but after trying just about all of them, there are some that I thought I'd really like that weren't very good in my guitars and/or setup. Others surprised me in a good way.
Back on the hybrid tracks, check out some threads in the forums about different types of hybrids and you'll find all sorts of experimenting has gone on.
), is the C8/59, which is the Custom/59 hybrid with the Alnico 8. It's why I mentioned it earlier. The Alnico 8 gets mentioned a lot even as a replacement for non-hybrids.
Actually, orpheo was replying to one person in particular, it wasn't a general blanket statement. I really don't think he was try to insult anyone either. fourdogslong - the person he was replying to - didn't seem to take offense, why are you?
@ fourdogslong - The SH5, SH11, and SH14 are the same pickup just with a different magnet. The Custom (SH5) was the first and it uses a ceramic magnet. The Custom Custom (SH11) uses an Alnico 2. The Custom 5 (SH14) uses an Alnico 5 magnet. The magnet matters a lot in the frequencies and response of the pickup, made very evident by the fact that there are 3 products based on this fact.
The hybrid at the start of this thread was an SH11, but it could have been any of the Custom pickups. The 59 uses an Alnico 5 magnet, so if you took a SH14 and 59 and combined them you would get two hybrids, both based on an Alnico 5. They won't be exactly the same, for a few reasons, but you wouldn't have to worry about what magnet was in which pickup.
Further experimentation involves swapping different magnets. A favourite of a few seems to be an Alnico 8.
Personally, I've combined a TB14 and TB59, which are just the wider-spaced versions of the Seymour Duncan humbuckers (trembuckers), and I really like one but not the other. For whatever reason, whether it just happens to be the mix of the two coils, or something else, I only like the one. I've tried it in both the bridge and neck and it's great, where the other I don't like in either position in a few guitars I've tried.
If you combined an SH11 or SH5 with a 59 you'd have a choice as to what magnet to put in what hybrid.
You mentioned the SH14 was bright to you. It's not overly bright, but may seem like that in some guitars. Because of the Alnico 5, and the wind I would guess, it has scooped mids and big lows and highs. But, in the guitars I've tried I haven't found it too bright. Generally it has a tighter sound, especially compared to an SH11. Personally, I've like the SH11 more often than the SH14. I did like the SH14 in the neck of one guitar though.
If you're going off of the sound examples on the SD site, remember, they're all taken from a recording of the same guitar on the same equipment with the same settings, and so certain pickups may not sound very good, taken strictly in that context.
If you've used a JB, for instance, and you really know what that sounds like, listen to the JB clips and try to use that as a reference when listening to the other pickup clips. In that way you will get more of a comparison of frequencies, attack, etc., instead of expecting the pickup to sound like what's in the clip. If a pickup sounds bright in those clips, it may just be that it will tend to enhance the upper range, and/or just happens to bring out some frequencies in the guitar used that don't sound particularly pleasing.
Maybe you already know that, but I really didn't realize that myself when I first started really getting into pickup swapping and tone chasing.
I know I didn't particularly care for a few pickups from the sound clips, but after trying just about all of them, there are some that I thought I'd really like that weren't very good in my guitars and/or setup. Others surprised me in a good way.
Back on the hybrid tracks, check out some threads in the forums about different types of hybrids and you'll find all sorts of experimenting has gone on.
Success to one is failure to another. But, a hybrid that's mentioned often (maybe it's just Ian, not sure, he does post a lot about it
), is the C8/59, which is the Custom/59 hybrid with the Alnico 8. It's why I mentioned it earlier. The Alnico 8 gets mentioned a lot even as a replacement for non-hybrids.
