I have a couple of basic cab questions. (Mostly economics.)

[Artie]

I was doing my typical Sunday morning coffee and perusing my favorite on-line music retailers, when something caught my eye. Why would this Yamaha 112 cab with Eminence speaker, be more than a Marshall 412 with Celestions? And then again, an unloaded Avatar cab for even more than either of those. Is the Avatar that good? Is the Marshall that "cheap-ish"?



And on a related note, just how important is the cab, as opposed to the speakers inside, to the overall sound?

Thanks all;
Artie

 

[dystrust]

Re: I have a couple of basic cab questions. (Mostly economics.)

The Marshall cab is a POS and those speakers aren't the Celestions you're looking for. My younger brother used to have the older version of that cabinet and it was built entirely of MDF for one. Second, those speakers have a magnet barely larger than a golf ball, and their sensitivity is a poor joke. Regarding Avatar vs. Yamaha, I'd guess the difference is made in the US vs. overseas but that's a guess.

 

[dave74]

Re: I have a couple of basic cab questions. (Mostly economics.)

You can get an Avatar 212 loaded with V30s for $399,,,,,,,,,,,,and they are heavy well-built beasts.

 

[justFred]

Re: I have a couple of basic cab questions. (Mostly economics.)

Sound economics would be to buy the best speaker(s) you can afford and build your own cabinet.

 

[Artie]

Re: I have a couple of basic cab questions. (Mostly economics.)

Now that I'm retired, I'm actually thinking of doing that. But that little Yammy looks sweet too.

And, I sort of figured that Marshall must be a really cheap cab.

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: I have a couple of basic cab questions. (Mostly economics.)

Sound economics would be to buy the best speaker(s) you can afford and build your own cabinet.

I think this is only a sound decision only if you have the plans, skill and already own the tools to do this. I don't like working with stuff that can injure my hands, and I'm a bit of a klutz so....not for me. And typically, home-built cabs have ZERO resale, at least IME. Good cabs like the Mesas, Orange, Marshall 1960, Avatar, et.al., tend to hold their value pretty well if you take care of them.

MDF cabs are fine at home or studio, but they typically don't hold up as well when being moved around. Marine-grade Baltic birch can take a hit that could cause the MDF to crumble.

Wood does make a difference, just like a guitar, and so does the construction. Front-loaded or rear-loaded speaker? Makes a difference. Etc., etc., etc.

If you have deep pockets, Mesa would be happy to build a 112 for you out of 5A quilted maple, bubinga or other exotic wood. Best to be sitting down when you price one!

The Yamaha with the Legend looks like a decent value, but I would want to know what it's made of.

Bill

 

[Ayrton]

Re: I have a couple of basic cab questions. (Mostly economics.)

I would steer you away from all of those. The MG cab is MDF, and the Avatar is rabbet jointed, not finger jointed.

First, what are your goals or needs? Do you want a Marshall sound, or something more focused? Do you want to gig with it, or home recording?

A $400 budget would give you many quality options on the preowned market

 

[Jacew]

Re: I have a couple of basic cab questions. (Mostly economics.)

Sound economics would be to buy the best speaker(s) you can afford and build your own cabinet.

Or to just get Harley Benton G212. Quality plywood cab with V30's for 222€ (~260$). If you don't wat want V30's, get cheaper version for 140€ (~170$) and ditch the speakers.

 

[Artie]

Re: I have a couple of basic cab questions. (Mostly economics.)

I think this is only a sound decision only if you have the plans, skill and already own the tools to do this. I don't like working with stuff that can injure my hands, and I'm a bit of a klutz so....not for me.

I have an amazing array of woodworking and power tools, given my lack of experience in this area. My wife keeps buying them for my birthday and Christmas, in hopes that I'll remodel her kitchen. Plans are readily available on-line, and I've been playing with SketchUp for awhile. As for safety, I'm fairly anal about that. Before I use any of my serious power tools, I ask myself: how many fingers do I want to cut off today? And then I answer myself. I like safety to be first on my mind.

I would steer you away from all of those. The MG cab is MDF, and the Avatar is rabbet jointed, not finger jointed.

First, what are your goals or needs? Do you want a Marshall sound, or something more focused? Do you want to gig with it, or home recording?

Isn't a finger joint much stronger than a rabbet joint? The rabbet is definitely easier to cut. (I've got a nice router and table.)
My goals are two-fold. I need a nice speaker cab so that I can really check out a variety of heads that I've acquired over the years, and I'm wanting to try out the new Eminence WheelHouse 150 speaker. Secondly, I just want to see if I can do it. I'm inspired by some of the cabs that I've seen members make in this forum. Scott F's Celtic amp cabs come to mind. This will be used in a purely home-studio environment.

Thanks everyone for the comments. And any more to come.

Artie

 

[dave74]

Re: I have a couple of basic cab questions. (Mostly economics.)

I would steer you away from all of those. The MG cab is MDF, and the Avatar is rabbet jointed, not finger jointed.

Rabbet-jointed construction is what Mesa uses also,,,,,,,,so I wouldn't be too concerned from a durability standpoint.

from mesa's website;
You simply won’t find a better cabinet. ALL MESA® ENCLOSURES are made using the finest Void-free, Marine Grade Baltic Birch. Super strong rabbet corners are glued and nailed. Speaker baffles are fitted with superior dado joint construction and braced. Grilles are wrapped around a separate grille board, not the baffle board. Grille material is made of strong twisted jute dipped in a special coating that filters top end for a sweeter response.


Remember, you probably won't be doing squat-jumps onto the thing,,,,it's just going to hold speakers and a head at most.
Quality construction is great, but it's all relative.

 

[Artie]

Re: I have a couple of basic cab questions. (Mostly economics.)

Yup. And I've been google-ing rabbet joints. There's quite a few variations on how to do them and some are super strong, while others are simple. The good news is, I have the router cutter to do some complex ones.

 

[Darg1911]

Re: I have a couple of basic cab questions. (Mostly economics.)

Great advice re: Avatar !!! Stay away from those crappy Avatar cabinets. Maybe the price will be lower when I buy my next one ...

 

[Ayrton]

Re: I have a couple of basic cab questions. (Mostly economics.)

Isn't a finger joint much stronger than a rabbet joint? The rabbet is definitely easier to cut. (I've got a nice router and table.)

Finger joints are stronger, but nothing wrong with a rabbet joint. I only point it out on the Avatar cabs because you can buy finger jointed cabs for the same money.

If we are strictly building our own, then that is a different ball of wax.

The big choice is fixed or floating baffle (speaker board). Fixed will be tighter sounding and IMO would be better suited for recording (not to mention easier to build.

There is a thread on a 2x12 I built a few years ago, but I bet the pics have to be reloaded.



I have built several over the years and glad to help any way I can.

 

[dave74]

Re: I have a couple of basic cab questions. (Mostly economics.)

Finger joints are stronger, but nothing wrong with a rabbet joint. I only point it out on the Avatar cabs because you can buy finger jointed cabs for the same money.

Where can you buy good finger jointed cabs w/V30s for the same price as the Avatars ($399) w/free shipping?

 

[Artie]

Re: I have a couple of basic cab questions. (Mostly economics.)

Finger joints are stronger, but nothing wrong with a rabbet joint. I only point it out on the Avatar cabs because you can buy finger jointed cabs for the same money.

If we are strictly building our own, then that is a different ball of wax.

The big choice is fixed or floating baffle (speaker board). Fixed will be tighter sounding and IMO would be better suited for recording (not to mention easier to build.

There is a thread on a 2x12 I built a few years ago, but I bet the pics have to be reloaded.

View attachment 86192 View attachment 86193

That looks amazing. The thing I'm most concerned about is doing the Tolex. I've watched a bunch of videos, but they only go so far.

I have built several over the years and glad to help any way I can.

I may take you up on that. Thanks man.

 

[Darg1911]

Re: I have a couple of basic cab questions. (Mostly economics.)

Where can you buy good finger jointed cabs w/V30s for the same price as the Avatars ($399) w/free shipping?

You probably cant. Not new anyway. I paid $375 (I think it was $420 total with shipping and convertible back panel added) for my Avatar 2x12 Traditional with a G12h30 and Avatar Hellatone Alnico, 2 or 3 years back. There is a back story that I wont bother with, but that was a good deal.

 

[Ayrton]

Re: I have a couple of basic cab questions. (Mostly economics.)

I have not looked at Avatar cabs in some time, so I had to root around a bit. That is a pretty good deal for a 2x12, but there are several new 2x12 on the market in that $400-$600 range.

I was referring to the prices for 4x12, but if you are happy with your Avatar, great.

 

[Kamanda~SD]

Re: I have a couple of basic cab questions. (Mostly economics.)

I built a 2x12 to Marshall 1936 spec. Was a lot of fun. Economically...cost me more than a used one, but around the same price as new. Big ass router bit for the edges and baffle, and a table saw w/ jig for the finger joints.

If you don't care what it looks like, you can find good used cabs for cheap...the more beat up, the cheaper. There's a 4x12 MArshall 1960A in your area for $200 right now

 

[Artie]

Re: I have a couple of basic cab questions. (Mostly economics.)

Price isn't really an issue for me. It's more the satisfaction of seeing if I can do it. I've got the tools, and I've got the time. Now, I just want to try it.

 

[Ayrton]

Re: I have a couple of basic cab questions. (Mostly economics.)

I spent $60 on just a 5/8" round over bit.