i never realized how stupid of a design the strat has until...

Re: i never realized how stupid of a design the strat has until...

Lots of posturing, misconceptions, and flat out factually false info in this thread, both major and trivial. And just as much on the good side. I have no idea where to start.....

What I WILL say:

1. All those of you that incorrectly assume that a Tune-O-Matic is a fixed radius bridge who`s radius magically fits the guiitars it`s mounted on and no others, without human intervention.... Well, you have absolutely no idea what nut files are and /or how to set up a Tune-O-Matic properly using them.

2. many of you apparently don`t realize that if it weren`t for the strat design, you and thousands of others would still not have the slightest clue how to build a guitar. Not that screwing parts together is building a guitar, but it`s a lot closer than doing absolutely nothing is.

3. Regarding any neck attachment method or hardware chance as an "improvement" is wholly subjective and usually has no basis in actual reality when speaking of equal quality.

4. The start was designed to be cheap to manufacture, NOT cheap to sell, they were insignificantly cheaper than a LP, and from the 60s on ther have almost always been USA Gibsons priced LOWER than a USA standard strat (LPJ and Melody Maker instantly come to mind). I`m fairly certain if you would have suggested mass marketing in today`s form to Leo Fender, he would have laughed in your face and fired you. Which company did he start again after leaving Fender? Johnson? Agile? Or was it G+L?

5. Replaceability and moddablity for the END consumer were never a consideration in ANY of the classic designs, nor are they considerations in any current design. NO company outside of the computer software industry, specifically gaming, creates products assuming that they will be intendionally misused and deflowered, to suggest so is completely absurd. Even the software industry had no such issues for the first 30 years or so. It wasn`t until people started creating their own maps for Doom in the early 90s that that stage was set. And even today it is still an "entirely at your own risk" aspect.

The entire parts guitar market was barely in its infant shoes in the 70s due to leftover parts drom half destroyed instruments, it wasn`t until Charvel in the late 70s /early 80s that the market actually became real. Fender has NEVER been in the business of selling loose parts. So you`re arguing that something that didn`t happen until 40 years later was designed in from the start as a "feature" and has always voided the warranty despite being part of the design? Yeah, I call :bsflag:on that.

6. Building a set neck is both more labor intensive and more time consuming than building a bolt on. Especially when you start adding separate, bookmatched tops, binding, inlays, and other things that are commonly "forgotten" when comparing a LP to a strat. Glue does not dry instantly, and during this time instruments still take up valuable space, hindering other projects. If nothing else, the guitar needs to pay rent for the space it occupied while drying.
 
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Re: i never realized how stupid of a design the strat has until...

I just love that Zerb used Doom as a way to illustrate a point.

This thread needs a health pack.
 
Re: i never realized how stupid of a design the strat has until...

5. Replaceability and moddablity for the END consumer were never a consideration in ANY of the classic designs, nor are they considerations in any current design. NO company outside of the computer software industry, specifically gaming, creates products assuming that they will be intendionally misused and deflowered, to suggest so is completely absurd. Even the software industry had no such issues for the first 30 years or so. It wasn`t until people started creating their own maps for Doom in the early 90s that that stage was set. And even today it is still an "entirely at your own risk" aspect.

The entire parts guitar market was barely in its infant shoes in the 70s due to leftover parts drom half destroyed instruments, it wasn`t until Charvel in the late 70s /early 80s that the market actually became real. Fender has NEVER been in the business of selling loose parts. So you`re arguing that something that didn`t happen until 40 years later was designed in from the start as a "feature" and has always voided the warranty despite being part of the design? Yeah, I call :bsflag:on that.

6. Building a set neck is both more labor intensive and more time consuming than building a bolt on. Especially when you start adding separate, bookmatched tops, binding, inlays, and other things that are commonly "forgotten" when comparing a LP to a strat. Glue does not dry instantly, and during this time instruments still take up valuable space, hindering other projects. If nothing else, the guitar needs to pay rent for the space it occupied while drying.

Mate you better give up drinking Monkey's piss and get a good beer. :laughing:
You should quiet your inner volcano from time to time. :wizard:

It wasn't designed to be modular to the end user but, to easy repair in the shop and as a way to provide a wide array of "options" and, this doesn't anulate the smart design, IMHO.
Nowadays, the final user can benefit of that.
It would be very funny for a final user to discover that his '60s neck doesn't suit him and that he would prefer a '50s neck in his LP... :crazy:

I am quite sure nobody doubts that the construction of an LP is way complexer than the construction of a strato, hands on. I don't think that this was the point.

BTW, wasn't Leo Fender in Music Man between Fender and G&L. Memory fails again?.
 
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Re: i never realized how stupid of a design the strat has until...

Mate you better give up drinking Monkey's piss and get a good beer. :laughing:
You mean something like this, 90% of my beer intake?
7137.jpg

I`d wager to say that the mass produced beer germans can get locally blows most of what the rest of the world calls beer out of the water, including many small batches and microbrews. Were not the world`s #1 Beer exporter for nothing :laugh2:

It wasn't designed to be modular to the end user but, to easy repair in the shop and as a way to provide a wide array of "options" and, this doesn't anulate the smart design, IMHO.
Different finish and hardware colors are hardly worth mentioning as options, and were the only options for many years. The only reason for the bolt on neck was so that an unskilled worker could grab 2 random parts and slap them together without spending an hour on fitting them properly. Which is why they still rarely do.

I am quite sure nobody doubts that the construction of an LP is way complexer than the construction of a strato, hands on. I don't think that this was the point.

Many of the posts in this thread imply exactly that.

BTW, wasn't Leo Fender in Music Man between Fender and G&L. Memory fails again?.

IIRC yes, which adds further clout to the statement I made about Leo never targeting the mass market. Thank you. :beerchug:
 
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Re: i never realized how stupid of a design the strat has until...

I guess back in the day palm mute was not used very much, also lots of people would pcik strings where the hole of the acoustic used to be and the only way to control overdrive and clean up was thru volume so it makes perfect sense to me where the volume knob is. But if you are in this forum anyway chances are you are a DIY guy, how about putting one of those metal knobs used in Teles or Charvels? It has a reduced size so I guess it would reduce the risk to change it inadvertedly while still being close for on the fly volume changes with little effort.
 
Re: i never realized how stupid of a design the strat has until...

You mean something like this, 90% of my beer intake?
7137.jpg

I`d wager to say that the mass produced beer germans can get locally blows most of what the rest of the world calls beer out of the water, including many small batches and microbrews. Were not the world`s #1 Beer exporter for nothing :laugh2:

Indeed, that's what I actually call a Beer!. Don't forget to put your cupholder over after the third!.
Is that one in-house production?. Alt, Pils oder was?.
 
Re: i never realized how stupid of a design the strat has until...

Different finish and hardware colors are hardly worth mentioning as options, and were the only options for many years. The only reason for the bolt on neck was so that an unskilled worker could grab 2 random parts and slap them together without spending an hour on fitting them properly. Which is why they still rarely do.

Do you realize that the design was SMARTER than the designer. If they didn't provide a bunch of options from the beginning, this design allows it today. It's funny.
 
Re: i never realized how stupid of a design the strat has until...

Do you realize that the design was SMARTER than the designer. If they didn't provide a bunch of options from the beginning, this design allows it today. It's funny.

A bolt on design offers no options that a set neck or neck thru doesn`t, a router is a router, binding is binding, a bridge is a bridge, and none of them care what kind of guitar they`re used on. Im not sure what you`re trying to say exactly. The point I was arguing was the assumption by many that the strat was designed to be moddable and offer lots of options, which is complete hogwash, as there was no aftermartket industry providing parts to mod them with in the first place, nor were options beyond color choice offeered. ;)
 
Re: i never realized how stupid of a design the strat has until...

A bolt on design offers no options that a set neck or neck thru doesn`t, a router is a router, binding is binding, a bridge is a bridge, and none of them care what kind of guitar they`re used on. Im not sure what you`re trying to say exactly. The point I was arguing was the assumption by many that the strat was designed to be moddable and offer lots of options, which is complete hogwash, as there was no aftermartket industry providing parts to mod them with in the first place, nor were options beyond color choice offeered. ;)

I am ok with that aftermarket thang but, don't say me that it's equally easy to swap the neck in a bolt-on, set neck or neck thru!!!!.
I guess you didn't put your cup holder over you cup after the third beer!. :alcoholic

I am not talking about the possibilities while building the guitar (that's obvious) but, AFTER you have the guitar.
If I don't like my modern-C 9.5 radius neck, I can swap it MYSELF (and that means any single man can do it) in 2 minutes with a soft-V one, with mapple instead rosewood fretboard, and/or 7.5 radius, If I prefer it. I'd just source the neck anywhere and problem solved.
To do the same with an LP (just an example) is just "slightly" :laugh2: harder and... errr.... in a neck thru... I guess it makes no sense :18:
 
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Re: i never realized how stupid of a design the strat has until...

I am ok with that aftermarket thang but, don't say me that it's equally easy to swap the neck in a bolt-on, set neck or neck thru!!!!.
I NEVER said or even implied this, you are intentionally twisting my statements so as to support your arguments and I am in no way amused.

The fact of the matter is that NONE of what you are talking is something ANY manufacturer cares about. Once the product is sold and we are paid, you can do whatever the **** you like with it. We couldn`t care less until it`s coming back for some reason. If you break the neck, nobody cares, except the person getting paid to replace it. Fact.

For the last time, Aftermarket Neck swapping is NOT a ****ing design feature, it is purely a side benefit of a design made to be assembled by people that have no idea how to build a guitar the traditional way. No More, no less. Until the late 70s, the only real way to benefit from what you continue to tout as a design feature was to buy MULTIPLE GUITARS and swap the necks around, voiding the warranty on every single one in the process.

Guitars are designed to be PLAYED, nit assembled and disassembled 15x a day like a fricking erector set. For what you suggest to be a true design feature, the guitar would have to have been specifically designed as a way to practice inserting and removing screws into wood, not as a musical instrument.

Do you buy a car specifically for it`s ability to damage concrete walls? Or guitar strings specifically for their use as a garrotte? Or a Soldering iron for the capacity it has to commit arson? Or do you actually use them for the INTENDED purpose they were designed for, transportation, stringing guitars, and soldering?

Until you understand this, which I am now trying to explain for the third and final time, the discussion is pointless. A Design feature is by pure definition NOT something that goes ENTIRELY unnoticed and uncared for 30 years, and then suddenly becomes important when people a start to intentionally mutilate and abuse their own property. That is however exactly what you continue to state.

I guess you didn't put your cup holder over you cup after the third beer!. :alcoholic
I think rather that you continue to not understand that NOBODY cares what you or anyone else do to their product after you purchase it. Do you think Coca Cola cares whether you drink it straight, mix it with Jack, or pour it over your mother`s head? No, as long as you`re buying Coca Cola.

But to be honest, I don`t think you know me well enough to make statements like that. You are slowly starting to cross lines from which there is no return.

I am not talking about the possibilities while building the guitar (that's obvious) but, AFTER you have the guitar.
And that is where the disconnect lies, becasue neither Fender nor I give a rat`s ass about what happens to a guitar after it`s sold and we got paid. Unless you`re paying us to do the modification or something went south that was clearly my /their fault like uneven frets or a misaligned bridge.;)

If I don't like my modern-C 9.5 radius neck, I can swap it MYSELF (and that means any single man can do it) in 2 minutes with a soft-V one, with mapple instead rosewood fretboard, and/or 7.5 radius, If I prefer it. I'd just source the neck anywhere and problem solved.
But that STILL does not in any way mean that THAT was the reason it was done, which is what you continue to incessantly state and or imply, which is factually complete horse****.

To do the same with an LP (just an example) is just "slightly" :laugh2: harder and... errr.... in a neck thru... I guess it makes no sense :18:

I see no need to to answer for statements twisted into my posts by others. Nor to continue this discussion at this time. You either understand what I am saying or sou do not, it is not rocket science, and we are quickly moving away from the sort of respectful discussion that I am willing to partake in.

This thread is dead to me.
 
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Re: i never realized how stupid of a design the strat has until...

Ha Ha Ha,

:jester::jester::jester:

Zerb, bro, I was just wanting to see your volcano exploding!.
:angryfire:angryfire:angryfire

I am sorry, bro. Sometimes I go that bad.
Don't take me seriously. I don't do it.

HA HA HA

(sorry, again)

BTW, to me, this thread was closed just before the first post was written.
:fest7:
 
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Re: i never realized how stupid of a design the strat has until...

LOL. I've got to get back to Tettnang for some good beer!
 
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