Incoming New Pickup Day (Fishman Fluence)

[ExplorersRock]

Re: Incoming New Pickup Day (Fishman Fluence)

Rick's a smart guy, and a friend. He does understand these things, and what he says about the Piezo in an acoustic guitar is correct, but almost inversely proportionate for electric guitar. Perhaps a thread like this is more what you're looking for?: http://music-electronics-forum.com/t35354/
Rick chimes in toward the end, and we spend much more time on details. The short version is that small delays and stacking up of different sound sources will produce anomalies that are not EQ based. Learn about things like comb filtering, and how you can't just EQ those things back into a sound. And even if you could, they change and move with every different note you'd play because they vary based on the harmonic stacking. Even things like outside strings that have no magnet on the other side of them, vs inside strings that have strings and magnets on both sides all play a role in what we've become accustomed to hearing through our past experiences, but also what we want to hear, and the two are indeed different.

Taken a little bit deeper, the phase anomalies that we can impart into the sound that are the result of the magnetic field, as in stray flux lines, conflicting flux patterns, etc. are all desirable. It's why a Strat pickup responds like a Strat pickup, and a Strat pickup with a blade, or steel poles and Ceramic base magnets just aren't "right". Inductance and tonal spectrum aside, the flux disturbance is a large part of when we know a pickup is right, and when it feels wrong. That, however is NOT exclusively the phase incoherence I'm referring to within the coil layers. That's different. To bring that element into focus; to reduce things like group delay there, is pretty much a universal win/win for everyone. That's the part where people say "It sounds like my 54 Strat, but better" (and yes that's an actual quote from a respected industry veteran WITH an actual 54 Strat...original)

How does this play out practically? Take a vintage strat pickup for example, like those SSL-1's you've just received. They are excellent pickups, until you want something slightly different. Traditional pickup making is wrought with compromise, which is why there are so many different (and valid) models. Its like squeezing a balloon. You get one part right and something else pops up somewhere else. You get this part big and the other part is small. Such is the life of a pickup maker: "I love it but can I have just a little more "X?" and the answer is "Yes, but you'll lose a little "Y" but I can compensate for that by doing a bunch of other things" and eventually the player is happy...for a while anyway The freedoms inherent in this technology are staggering.

Frank you sound like such a nerd... and it's freaking awesome!

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: Incoming New Pickup Day (Fishman Fluence)

All the pickups are listed as individual parts on the Fishman site. I am sure you will be able to mix and match, Fishman has always been good about that. Keep in mind there are two Modern buckers a ceramic and an Alinco. You will be seeing these OEM in guitars soon so you will have the option to walk into a store and try a set out in a live axe.

Did you get a chance to play both the Ceramic and Alnico versions? If so how were they? What would you compare them to? eg. your Dimebucker

 

[Evan Skopp]

Re: Incoming New Pickup Day (Fishman Fluence)

That's very cool, it's hard to love the raw piezo sound.

A lot of people say they like the "bloom" aspect of old unpotted PAFs, does anything interesting happen if you plug a typical electric guitar into a a Mama Bear?

We talked about doing input sources based on solid body electrics, but we never got around to it. However, there are input sources for an acoustic guitar with a magnetic sound hole pickup, which could be interesting with a electric. There's also an input source called "Neutral-No Input Compensation." And if you have an electric with a piezo bridge like the Parker, Fishman Power Bridge or the Baggs X-Bridge, it will sound amazing with Mama Bear. Not just "acoustic guitarish," but like one of several really good acoustic guitar body shapes. So, in a sense, you could be playing your Strat "through" Jackson Browne's pre-War Herringbone D28 with all the "bloom" that guitar box imparts on an input tone. Could be cool.

Sorry to hijack the thread.

 

[Securb]

Re: Incoming New Pickup Day (Fishman Fluence)

Did you get a chance to play both the Ceramic and Alnico versions? If so how were they? What would you compare them to? eg. your Dimebucker

I did not play the Modern set. I am dying to try them. I might shoot back over to Fishman this Friday on the way home from work. The Classic set had more than enough punch for metal. With no pedal straight into an EVH I was able to pump out enough gain to play any flavor of metal. I am expecting the Modern will just push it over the edge.

 

[dominus]

Re: Incoming New Pickup Day (Fishman Fluence)

All the pickups are listed as individual parts on the Fishman site. I am sure you will be able to mix and match, Fishman has always been good about that. Keep in mind there are two Modern buckers a ceramic and an Alinco. You will be seeing these OEM in guitars soon so you will have the option to walk into a store and try a set out in a live axe.

That's why I want a modern set, I'd stick one ceramic in a guitar and one alnico in a guitar.

I did not play the Modern set. I am dying to try them. I might shoot back over to Fishman this Friday on the way home from work. The Classic set had more than enough punch for metal. With no pedal straight into an EVH I was able to pump out enough gain to play any flavor of metal. I am expecting the Modern will just push it over the edge.

Maybe I'd need to try a classic set too. Grr.

 

[Securb]

Re: Incoming New Pickup Day (Fishman Fluence)

That's why I want a modern set, I'd stick one ceramic in a guitar and one alnico in a guitar.



Maybe I'd need to try a classic set too. Grr.

Ken Susi is a metal maniac and he has the Classic set in his Les Paul. Don't let the terms "Classic" and "Modern" fool you. Any metal you could pull off with lets say a Dimarzio SD you can pull off with the Classic.

 

[DreX]

Re: Incoming New Pickup Day (Fishman Fluence)

Rick's a smart guy, and a friend. He does understand these things, and what he says about the Piezo in an acoustic guitar is correct, but almost inversely proportionate for electric guitar. Perhaps a thread like this is more what you're looking for?: http://music-electronics-forum.com/t35354/
Rick chimes in toward the end, and we spend much more time on details. The short version is that small delays and stacking up of different sound sources will produce anomalies that are not EQ based. Learn about things like comb filtering, and how you can't just EQ those things back into a sound. And even if you could, they change and move with every different note you'd play because they vary based on the harmonic stacking. Even things like outside strings that have no magnet on the other side of them, vs inside strings that have strings and magnets on both sides all play a role in what we've become accustomed to hearing through our past experiences, but also what we want to hear, and the two are indeed different.

Thanks for that link, it took a while to get through that thread, but it's was full of good information.

The funny thing is that there is talk about all these variables making a difference, flux patterns, coil layering, pole pieces vs bars, etc. and yet a Duckbucker, for all its distinctions over a true single coil, sounds reasonably close to a typical single coil. Not identical, no, but not wildly different. I love the sound of Duckbuckers too.

I wish the Fluence marketing told me why I might love their sound too, rather than focus on the practical aspects like noise cancelling and two voices, because where as you're selling passion, they're selling pragmatics. You've made me more willing to try them out than I was before. You might say "who cares what the marketing copy says?", but it has a lot of pull with me, and I think others, because it represents the promise the company is willing to make about their product. If Fishman themselves aren't talking about fast response and rich tonal detail, then it's as though they're saying they aren't willing to promise as much. People are giving them good reviews too, but it's prudent to let the honeymoon period wear off before looking too closely as use reviews.

 

[LesStrat]

Re: Incoming New Pickup Day (Fishman Fluence)

If only we could make contact with the developer to find out what they can do.:dunno:

 

[Securb]

Re: Incoming New Pickup Day (Fishman Fluence)

If only we could make contact with the developer to find out what they can do.:dunno:

I can, but won't.

 

[LesStrat]

Re: Incoming New Pickup Day (Fishman Fluence)

I was thinking that maybe we could get him to post in this thread.

 

[Stratman]

Re: Incoming New Pickup Day (Fishman Fluence)

Gentlemen:

I installed them into a homemade Stratocaster styled body and have taken them to a number of different clubs and let other guitarist use that guitar…

All of the guitarist love the tones (2 voices) and listening in the audience, I can hear clear tones no matter what style of music is being played.

To sum up the comments:

1) All 9 guitarist loved the tones
2) Sound was clean and clear (Not digital - these are analog pups) no matter what style of music was being played
3) The take to pedals very nicely
4) Not ice-picky or bass boomy
5) I got orders for building guitars!

You can post diverse comments that have nothing to do with this post…
You can post negative crap…
You can post with different unrelated posting

BUT

You cannot change how nice these pups are!

 

[Oinkus]

Re: Incoming New Pickup Day (Fishman Fluence)

I want a set of each kind pretty badly , shame there isn't a mini humbucker set I have that guitar already. Going to do the Vintage Modified Squire Strat for the single coils , eventually replace the fretboard with ebony and SS frets too, will be a full on insane build like I normally do spend $1000 bucks change everything. Then I will need a new 2 humbucker guitar (like I need another hole in my head) but not taking any of my humbuckers out except maybe for the P 90 sized SD ones. I ramble and etc...

 

[fusionid]

Re: Incoming New Pickup Day (Fishman Fluence)

will standard fender single coil pickup covers work for these? I want to drop them on a guitar I am trying to keep the vintage look on.