Interesting amp experience Tuesday night...

[Lewguitar]

I don't play to loud...simple as that. I gig with a 22 watt Deluxe Reverb and rarely turn my higher gain/modded DR up passed 3 or so and my unmodded one passed 4 or so. And I still get told sometimes that my guitar is to loud.

So I brought both of my blackface DR's to the gig on Tuesday night, split my guitar signal with my Line 6 DDL-4 (sometimes I used some delay but usually it was "off") and then I turned both amps up to about the same volume.

Got nothing but compliments on how "full" and "rich" my tone was...even from our singer's husband who's always complaining that I play to loud! (Of course, all HE wants to hear is his wife! laugh!)

Interesting, because I probably played louder than I usually do.

But the tone was wider, not coming from a single source on stage.

When I first started gigging with my new group I brought along both DR's...guess I'll go back to that approach again.

Lew

 

[ParameterMan]

Re: Interesting amp experience Tuesday night...

Yep. I've had the exact same experience. My theory is that a 1x12 cab has a projection cone akin to a trumpet. You get lots of hot spots and the "too loud but still can't hear it" phenomenon. In my experience, a 2x12 or better, two 1x12 amps spread out gives a much smoother, less irritating sound. I think it's preferable to move a lot of air a small amount than move a small amount of air a lot and let it disperse and resonate at will. The multiple speakers' patterns also seem to interfere and cancel out some of the penetrating midrange.

Just some observations. You can tell I've been pondering this for a while. Also wondering if it'll be a good enough excuse to get two 4x12 cabs. You know, if two speakers let me play quieter and smoother, eight should be even more so. I wonder if they'll buy that......

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Interesting amp experience Tuesday night...

Yep. I've had the exact same experience. My theory is that a 1x12 cab has a projection cone akin to a trumpet. You get lots of hot spots and the "too loud but still can't hear it" phenomenon. In my experience, a 2x12 or better, two 1x12 amps spread out gives a much smoother, less irritating sound. I think it's preferable to move a lot of air a small amount than move a small amount of air a lot and let it disperse and resonate at will. The multiple speakers' patterns also seem to interfere and cancel out some of the penetrating midrange.

That's right. Well said. Although one DR works just fine most of time, two gives a wider, less directional tone without the "hot spots" and smooths out the tone. Just as you said.

Lew

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Interesting amp experience Tuesday night...

That's right. Well said. Although one DR works just fine most of time, two gives a wider, less directional tone without the "hot spots" and smooths out the tone. Just as you said.

Lew

Hi buddy! The cool thing about running 2 amps in stereo(I feel anyway)...Is that you don't need as much overall volume maybe like you do with 1 amp and it's as though the 2 amps together fill out a broader sound stage...

I used to run 2 Pro Juinors in stereo a number of years ago in small clubs and it was great...I did use effects into the amps also...I liked the ambience I got in stereo by using just a smidge of reverb and sometimes delay...I could get decent gain w/sustain and good clean tones that were on the edge of overdrive,but I still had good control of my overall volumes all night...

These days I just use either my 2x12 Pro Reverb,My Marshall head into a Vox 2x12 V30 cab,or the Vox Valvetronix head into the 2x12...We actually are a pretty loud band these days....Loud drummer makes it that way! ;o)

 

[Bludave]

Re: Interesting amp experience Tuesday night...

I love using 2 amps. Espicially 2 small amps. Its like plugging a Deluxe into a 4 12. Sweet.

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Interesting amp experience Tuesday night...

I love using 2 amps. Espicially 2 small amps. Its like plugging a Deluxe into a 4 12. Sweet.

Dave......I Like running my Pro Juinor into my Marshall V30 4x12 cranked....Great tone!

 

[wahwah]

Re: Interesting amp experience Tuesday night...

It's a fascinating observation Lew, and it does sound like a dispersion/cancellation issue, with a softer overall projection beam than you would get with the single 12". I guess 2 beautiful guitar amps are better than one. I think there's something in that for all of us...

I also think it's the case that good tone is oftten misperceived as volume. A "toneful" amp has a way of sitting head and shoulders out of an onstage balance, without having to be loud, per se.


Cheers.....................wahwah

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Interesting amp experience Tuesday night...

Thanks guys!

Like John said, with two amps set side by side (not one on top of the other) I can actually play at what feels like a lower overall volume...and still get nice sustain. The tone kind of wraps around me and supports me.

I've never really liked the sound of two 12's set vertically though...I much prefer them side by side to get that wider kind of tonal spread.

I played through a 2x12 Fender Twin Reverb and then Pro Reverb for years...but two DR's sound "better" to me. Probably because even when you set the two DR's right nxt to each other, the 12's are a little further apart than they are in a 2x12 combo amp like the Twin or Pro Reverb.

But as my volume level kept coming down, I switched to smaller amps.

One of the best sounds I ever got when playing at church was one tweed '58 1x12 Fender Deluxe and one tweed 2x10 '51 Fender Super with the guitar signal split into stereo by a Boss Digital Reverb pedal. These days I would use my Line 6 Verbzilla to do that.

But the DR's give me a better rythym tone...and I like the Fender spring reverb in my blackface Fenders.

Lew

 

[Empty Pockets]

Re: Interesting amp experience Tuesday night...

This is why I like to use two full stacks if possible...one on each side of the stage. Then the whole place is awash in heavy.

 

[wahwah]

Re: Interesting amp experience Tuesday night...

I've never really liked the sound of two 12's set vertically though...I much prefer them side by side to get that wider kind of tonal spread.

Lew

Ditto. There's also the issue of the extra 3dB in the lower frequencies from the coupling which is likely to mess with the tone and increase perceived volume.


Cheers....................wahwah

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Interesting amp experience Tuesday night...

Thanks guys!

Like John said, with two amps set side by side (not one on top of the other) I can actually play at what feels like a lower overall volume...and still get nice sustain. The tone kind of wraps around me and supports me.

I've never really liked the sound of two 12's set vertically though...I much prefer them side by side to get that wider kind of tonal spread.

I played through a 2x12 Fender Twin Reverb and then Pro Reverb for years...but two DR's sound "better" to me. Probably because even when you set the two DR's right nxt to each other, the 12's are a little further apart than they are in a 2x12 combo amp like the Twin or Pro Reverb.

But as my volume level kept coming down, I switched to smaller amps.

One of the best sounds I ever got when playing at church was one tweed '58 1x12 Fender Deluxe and one tweed 2x10 '51 Fender Super with the guitar signal split into stereo by a Boss Digital Reverb pedal. These days I would use my Line 6 Verbzilla to do that.

But the DR's give me a better rythym tone...and I like the Fender spring reverb in my blackface Fenders.

Lew

It's hard as far as room for everyone on stage,but I used to mess with how far apart I'd put my stereo spread with the 2 amps....Sometimes I'd put them both up off the floor and sometimes not....Seems all the lows go away with the amps off the floor,but there's better projection and the sound doesn't get lost past our ankles....When I use my current 2x12 setup,I stick a 2x4 under my cab and it gives me just the right amount of projection I need from my setup and I don't lose the thickness I Like in the lows(I call it fullness) ;o) I don't compete with our bass player though... ;o)

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Interesting amp experience Tuesday night...

This is why I like to use two full stacks if possible...one on each side of the stage. Then the whole place is awash in heavy.

Sounds fun to me! :naughty::1:

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: Interesting amp experience Tuesday night...

When had cover gigs I borrowed one of my mates old Super reverb and my own old Vox....did not play them very loud....very soft on the ears and a nice spread.
Two amps is a club heaven setup!

 

[Arrigus]

Re: Interesting amp experience Tuesday night...

That's interesting. I never had the chance to play with two amps in stereo. But it must be really a good thing...
By the way, how loud is a Deluxe Reverb?
I mean, in my group there are 3 guitar players: I gig with a Bassman LTD, but I always set the volume at 6 or 7, and still I feel like I'd need more fire... :firing:
maybe it's just me...!

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Interesting amp experience Tuesday night...

That's interesting. I never had the chance to play with two amps in stereo. But it must be really a good thing...
By the way, how loud is a Deluxe Reverb?
I mean, in my group there are 3 guitar players: I gig with a Bassman LTD, but I always set the volume at 6 or 7, and still I feel like I'd need more fire... :firing:
maybe it's just me...!

If that's how loud you need to play to keep up with the other guys, a single DR might not be loud enough. Two would probably work fine...or a single Pro-Reverb.

 

[WhoFan]

Re: Interesting amp experience Tuesday night...

one of the best low volume sounds i had years ago was using a SS Fender set to high gain and a Marshall SS set for a cleaner crunch... use the 2 together and it make a wonderful full sound that either amp lacked on their own....

to this day i still enjoy using 2 amps together.... but when i'm gigging i prefer one mic, so i stick with one speaker

 

[mad dog]

Re: Interesting amp experience Tuesday night...

My first gigs with two amps were with DRs, a BFDR and a DRRI. Got the idea from seeing Bill Kirchen. ****, that sounded good. Using two rather different amps can be even better. I gigged outdoors with a Clark Tyger (tweed bandmaster) and late 50's Gibson GA40 together. Maybe the best live sound ever for me.