Is a "dark" amp really dark sounding ?

SirJackdeFuzz

SirJackdeFuzz

New member
This is gonna sound like a newbie question, but i want your opinions, please !

It is about amp voicings, but not in voicings like, "Mesa vs. Fender vs. Marshall".

We always read in various amp threds that folks say, "this amp is darker sounding than" . . . . (insert what ever amp) - or, "this is one of the darkest sounding amps out there".

You get the idea.

So, here is my question.

I read many threrads in the past saying that Orange as a brand, is a "dark" sounding amp. Then they are referring to both the AD & Rocker series. (because they are great for sludgy stoner rock)

Thing is, they do not sound dark at all - not to my ears !!!
Am i not hearring something correctly ?

If a Twin Reverb is a "bright" amp, and a Marshall a "normal/neatral" sounding amp, how can people say an Orange is DARKer ???

If anyone understands my question, please help me out of this one.

Many thanx
;)
 
Re: Is a "dark" amp really dark sounding ?

It all depends on what your ears are used to imo. If you are used to darker sounding amps a darker amp won't strike you as such. But if you are used to brighter amps the natural darkness of another amp might be way more extreme in your perception.
I for example use Engl amps which are pretty bright by nature, so now when i listen to a mesa or marshall i always feel that those are dark, even though some people don't think of them as such.
 
Re: Is a "dark" amp really dark sounding ?

I always think of Laney as the darkest tone, never played Orange but hear that it is dark too. I think dark-tone amps are a very small minority.
 
Re: Is a "dark" amp really dark sounding ?

Loserchief hit the nail!I feel the same.Like Soldano SLO is the brightest for my ears and Orange/Triple rec the darkest.But i think cabinets can change many things ,and every ear can choose a different cabinet for it's amp!
 
Re: Is a "dark" amp really dark sounding ?

As a kid in late 60's, I had a vibrolux reverb; I think my dad paid $200 for it. Compared to any reissue fenders, it was dark sounding as I remember it. It was also much better sounding than any reissue you can find today.

I bought a TRRI custom 15, after a year was ready to buy a vibroking, but wasn't impressed by any of the newer fenders. A friend put me onto Tony Bruno's cowtipper; ordered one and that baby is a dark sounding amp, I just ordered it with bright switch. Compare a TRRI reissue to a 60's fender and difference will jump right out at ya.

NOS tubes, components, also played their part but you'll hear the difference.
 
Re: Is a "dark" amp really dark sounding ?

Loserchief said:
It all depends on what your ears are used to imo. If you are used to darker sounding amps a darker amp won't strike you as such. But if you are used to brighter amps the natural darkness of another amp might be way more extreme in your perception.
I for example use Engl amps which are pretty bright by nature, so now when i listen to a mesa or marshall i always feel that those are dark, even though some people don't think of them as such.
Click to expand...
Agreed.

And yeah ENGLs are cool amps, they are very bright, but sound awesome as hell when cranked :)
 
Re: Is a "dark" amp really dark sounding ?

Dark is a realtive thing to me. But, of the amps most would have encountered the Epi Jr head seems dark to me. When I use the term it mean it does not have a treble that stands out. I feel like I want to turn the tone know on the gutiar but you cannot any more.
 
Re: Is a "dark" amp really dark sounding ?

Can you guys name a few amp models that (to your ears) are darker than the rest ?


Thanx guys !
 
Re: Is a "dark" amp really dark sounding ?

AH^DK said:
Agreed.

And yeah ENGLs are cool amps, they are very bright, but sound awesome as hell when cranked :)
Click to expand...
I think because of being quite bright they sound good @ lower volumes too..it doesn't sound moldy.
 
Re: Is a "dark" amp really dark sounding ?

When I think "dark",...

I think of a Mesa amp like a DC-3 or Maverick with EL84s--compared to a Fender BF or SF amp, or a Mesa Mark Series with 6L6s.

The EL84s seem to be frequency limited, with "chime" and mid-range "focus", rather than the "airy stringiness" of the 6L6.

If you clip off the BRITE cap from a Marshall JCM 800 MV, you can easily hear how the amp is fairly bright and clean at low volume; but as you push it hard the amp darkens and the tone fattens up.

Bill
 
Re: Is a "dark" amp really dark sounding ?

Sir Jack, you have a great question. I would have to figure that Loserchief has the answer. I guess the more specific one gets, the farther off the answer may be.

I like Boogie Bill's description of "dark", as it relates to EL84's and 6L6's. Smaller tubes generally saturate earlier, and the tone is more "smeared", and lacking detail when driven hard. This can be called "dark".

I will tell you without a doubt, the 6550 powered Sunn model T has unbearable bright "pop" to the eardrums (if dialed that way)...even though it is a desireable amp for stoner rock. Does the model T sound "dark"?...Nope, it just has a hell of a lot more bottom available than just about any amp built around Fender Bassman circuitry. Amps have tone controls (yay!), so use 'em.:)

Speakers and cabs are where the electrical power is turned into physical energy perceived by the player. This should not be discounted. Musical instrument speakers and cabs are integral to the tone, and are 180 degrees opposite of those used in HiFi. HiFi is generally about "colorless" reproduction. Some speakers are going to have less presence/more bass, so that may be "dark".
 
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Re: Is a "dark" amp really dark sounding ?

Thanx Sludge, that made me see it in a diff light !

So an amp can be seen as a "dark" amp, but it might be bcause of the speakers used (in some casses) - right ?!

I take it a closed back cab will help more toward a darker type tone than an open back then !??
 
Re: Is a "dark" amp really dark sounding ?

SirJackdeFuzz said:
Thanx Sludge, that made me see it in a diff light !

So an amp can be seen as a "dark" amp, but it might be bcause of the speakers used (in some casses) - right ?!

I take it a closed back cab will help more toward a darker type tone than an open back then !??
Click to expand...

Yes. The closed volume of air behind the speaker cone tends to support/impede the cones in the cab from excessive movement (excursion) at high volumes, and focuses the tone. You hear the front of the cone, and some amount of sound from inside the cab that is radiated back through the paper cones. The cab itself radiates sound too. This is why pine, and birch plywood are loved for tone. Cheap cabs like the Marshall MG (solid state) series and others are built of MDF (Medium Density Fiberboard) or OSB (Oriented Strand Board) are not the best. MDF, is sawdust bonded with heavy glues. Not only are they heavier than plywood, they are structurally weaker, and less musical. Most players here would take a high quality 2x12 made of chosen components, rather than a 4x12 made from low quality parts.
 
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Re: Is a "dark" amp really dark sounding ?

IDK, but nearly every Fender amp I've ever heard was very bright sounding to my ears. The only one I ever played that I liked was the Tonemaster head.
 
Re: Is a "dark" amp really dark sounding ?

Sludgenutz said:
Yes. The closed volume of air behind the speaker cone tends to support/impede the cones in the cab from excessive movement (excursion) at high volumes, and focuses the tone. You hear the front of the cone, and some amount of sound from inside the cab that is radiated back through the paper cones. The cab itself radiates sound too. This is why pine, and birch plywood are loved for tone. Cheap cabs like the Marshall MG (solid state) series and others are built of MDF (Medium Density Fiberboard) or OSB (Oriented Strand Board) are not the best. MDF, is sawdust bonded with heavy glues. Not only are they heavier than plywood, they are structurally weaker, and less musical. Most players here would take a high quality 2x12 made of chosen components, rather than a 4x12 made from low quality parts.
Click to expand...


Then it is a good thing my father (now retierd) was in the wood-work buisness, and he still have large pieces of pine all over his work shop !

Looks like he is aboput to under take a FEW 2x12 cab guilding projects - he just doesn't know it yet ! :eek13: :laugh2:

I want a (vertical standing - on it's ear) 2x12 for my Blues Jr, and a 2x12 for my next BIG Amp Head (either Orange AD30 or some Fender Bassman/Prosonic/Supersonic)


. . . thanx Dad !
 
Re: Is a "dark" amp really dark sounding ?

SirJackdeFuzz said:
This is gonna sound like a newbie question, but i want your opinions, please !

It is about amp voicings, but not in voicings like, "Mesa vs. Fender vs. Marshall".

We always read in various amp threds that folks say, "this amp is darker sounding than" . . . . (insert what ever amp) - or, "this is one of the darkest sounding amps out there".

You get the idea.

So, here is my question.

I read many threrads in the past saying that Orange as a brand, is a "dark" sounding amp. Then they are referring to both the AD & Rocker series. (because they are great for sludgy stoner rock)

Thing is, they do not sound dark at all - not to my ears !!!
Am i not hearring something correctly ?

If a Twin Reverb is a "bright" amp, and a Marshall a "normal/neatral" sounding amp, how can people say an Orange is DARKer ???

If anyone understands my question, please help me out of this one.

Many thanx
;)
Click to expand...

The Oranges I have are dark in that they don't have the bright top end of other amps, nor the definition when overdriven. It's very cool in some ways yet and in others it makes you realize why they were using treble boosters until Marshall came along.
 
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