I've come to the conclusion that the Celestion Vintage 30 is......

[Luke Duke]

Re: I've come to the conclusion that the Celestion Vintage 30 is......

Most likely the 15 ohm speakers are not V30's, but original G12H30's if it says it's a 30 watt speaker. AFAIK, the 15 ohm designation was used way back in the 60's and early 70's, and it's been 16 ohms ever since.

The Vintage30 came out in the mid 80's as an ceramic alternative to a G12 alnico. It was designed to mimic the cone response of the 60's Celestion alnicos, but use a less expensive ceramic magnet, and handle way more power.

A lot of confusion is caused by the name, because it's not a version of the 30 watt speakers of old. It only uses the same cone and magnet as the old bass version of the G12H30. The Vintage 30 it's actually a 60 watt speaker, with the same voice coil assembly design as a G12 alnico.

Beat me to it!

The late 70s and early 80s cabs had G1265s in them which is more akin to a greenback with the smaller magnet, but it had/has a large dustcap. It holds together under gain better than a greenback, but still gives you that classic type of sound. Celestion also did some runs of G1280s which were the predecessors to the Modern Lead, and the V30. They were in the Marshall 1982 (bass/heavy duty) cabs. That's what my cab came with. I prefer V30s to them, because the 80s are more similiar to the Classic Lead (IMO). They also used the large dustcap.

Like LPB said and it says on the Celestion site the V30 came about because materials became available so they could make a voice coil much closer to the original Blue's.

Another speaker thing to point out. The old Pre-Rola and early Rolas used 75 and 55 Hz cones. Originally the G12H30 with a 55Hz cone was the bass speaker. Celestion over time also made greenbacks with the 55Hz cone and G12Hs with the 75hz cone. The regular greenback and the regular G12H now both come with a 75Hz cone. The Heritage G12H30 has the 55Hz or bass cone. Due to such changes that's why you can hear different greenbacks that have the same 40 years of use. Also that's one of the things that people go to Jim at Southbay Amp Works for.

I'm sure that was a lot of rambling, but hopefully it helped someone.

Luke

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: I've come to the conclusion that the Celestion Vintage 30 is......

Beat me to it!

The late 70s and early 80s cabs had G1265s in them which is more akin to a greenback with the smaller magnet, but it had/has a large dustcap. It holds together under gain better than a greenback, but still gives you that classic type of sound. Celestion also did some runs of G1280s which were the predecessors to the Modern Lead, and the V30. They were in the Marshall 1982 (bass/heavy duty) cabs. That's what my cab came with. I prefer V30s to them, because the 80s are more similiar to the Modern Lead (IMO). They also used the large dustcap.

Like LPB said and it says on the Celestion site the V30 came about because materials became available so they could make a voice coil much closer to the original Blue's.

Another speaker thing to point out. The old Pre-Rola and early Rolas used 75 and 55 Hz cones. Originally the G12H30 with a 55Hz cone was the bass speaker. Celestion over time also made greenbacks with the 55Hz cone and G12Hs with the 75hz cone. The regular greenback and the regular G12H now both come with a 75Hz cone. The Heritage G12H30 has the 55Hz or bass cone. Due to such changes that's why you can hear different greenbacks that have the same 40 years of use. Also that's one of the things that people go to Jim at Southbay Amp Works for.

I'm sure that was a lot of rambling, but hopefully it helped someone.

Luke

Thanks Luke! I read somewhere that Hendrix played through Noel Redding's bass cabinets for the original recording of the Wind Cried Mary. Do you think those would have been 55 hz Greenbacks or G12H30's? I used a 55hz Blackback Celestion G12 in my blackface Pro Reverb for about 25 years. The amp had two Jensen C12N's originally but when one blew I put the old Celestion Blackback in there. It was a sweet combo with the '66 C12N. Lew

 

[Pink Unicorn Horsey]

Re: I've come to the conclusion that the Celestion Vintage 30 is......

Man, not to bash or nothin, but I don't know what everyone hears in V30's. I have a 2x12 cab with 60Ls from Avatar (V30s with a lower mid focus), and that cab did not sound good with my Mesa Mark IIB or a 5150. I mean, I really don't like the V30's much at all. I've played them cranked, quiet, broken in, and brand new with 2 different amps, and both times there wasn't anything about the sound I liked. I've been thinking about getting the V30/G12H30 combo when I get my 4x12 for my head, but I'm way too leary of not liking that either. Anyone else feel this way? honestly, after playing for 20 minutes, the sound of the speakers fatigues my ears so much I actually want to stop playing.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

I think this is why so many manufactures make different kids of speakers. There's something for everyone!

- Keith

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: I've come to the conclusion that the Celestion Vintage 30 is......

Thanks Luke! I read somewhere that Hendrix played through Noel Redding's bass cabinets for the original recording of the Wind Cried Mary. Do you think those would have been 55 hz Greenbacks or G12H30's? I used a 55hz Blackback Celestion G12 in my blackface Pro Reverb for about 25 years. The amp had two Jensen C12N's originally but when one blew I put the old Celestion Blackback in there. It was a sweet combo with the '66 C12N. Lew

Yet again Lew I'm jealous of your old gear! I bet that Pro was a SMOKIN amp with a really soulful tone.

Now Lew let me preface this, you were alive at that time and I wasn't so what I'm going to say is conjecture. My opinion on this is/was formed by what I've read/seen and heard (just listened to the song 2 minutes ago to refresh my tonal memory )

If Jimi was using a Marshall with bass cabinets on that recording I'd say they had 55Hz cone greenbacks. The reason I say that is although his sound is full it doesn't seem (to me) to have the punch thump that you associate with G12H30s. Plus it doesn't (to me) sound like some of his later recordings where there seems to be more bass.

An interesting thing about those 55Hz cones is they had a cloth surround so there was doping on them to hold it all together otherwise it wouldn't be rigid enough to work well. You and I both know that this also contributes to a speaker's tone, especially when pushed.

It wasn't until recently that I really started researching speakers heavily and I've been driving Ted Weber, and Jim at Southbay NUTS I'm sure. I feel pretty certain Christian will be by this evening and correct something or another or pick up something I missed. LOL

Luke

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: I've come to the conclusion that the Celestion Vintage 30 is......

Yet again Lew I'm jealous of your old gear! I bet that Pro was a SMOKIN amp with a really soulful tone.

Now Lew let me preface this, you were alive at that time and I wasn't so what I'm going to say is conjecture. My opinion on this is/was formed by what I've read/seen and heard (just listened to the song 2 minutes ago to refresh my tonal memory )

If Jimi was using a Marshall with bass cabinets on that recording I'd say they had 55Hz cone greenbacks. The reason I say that is although his sound is full it doesn't seem (to me) to have the punch thump that you associate with G12H30s. Plus it doesn't (to me) sound like some of his later recordings where there seems to be more bass.

An interesting thing about those 55Hz cones is they had a cloth surround so there was doping on them to hold it all together otherwise it wouldn't be rigid enough to work well. You and I both know that this also contributes to a speaker's tone, especially when pushed.

It wasn't until recently that I really started researching speakers heavily and I've been driving Ted Weber, and Jim at Southbay NUTS I'm sure. I feel pretty certain Christian will be by this evening and correct something or another or pick up something I missed. LOL

Luke

You know what's interesting to me about that? That old blackback never blew...but it eventually lost the suspension of the surround. It was as if the surround lost all of it's resiliance and wouldn't hold the cone in place eventually. Just got soft. I'll bet you're right about the cloth supension and whatever the dope was that held it all together, it just lost it's ability to hold everything in place after 25 years of constant use. It was my favorite amp for a long time and I gigged with it and practiced with it constantly and that Celestion just wore out. But it never went open or blew...it just got soft.

Lew

 

[Red_Label]

Re: I've come to the conclusion that the Celestion Vintage 30 is......

Wow... some good insight and knowledge on this board. Thanks for the info guys! I'd swear that my speakers said they were "Vintage 30's" at 15 Ohms, but it sure doesn't seem possible based on what you've said. So I guess I'll be popping one out this weekend to have a look at it. Thanks again. Will update this thread with the info when I get it.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: I've come to the conclusion that the Celestion Vintage 30 is......

Wow... some good insight and knowledge on this board. Thanks for the info guys! I'd swear that my speakers said they were "Vintage 30's" at 15 Ohms, but it sure doesn't seem possible based on what you've said. So I guess I'll be popping one out this weekend to have a look at it. Thanks again. Will update this thread with the info when I get it.

Could easily be 16 ohms...I've seen that many times. Many Marshall bottems use four 16 ohm Celestions wired in a series/parallel configuration so that the cab's impredence is 16 ohms. But I've never seen a Celestion labeled 15 ohms.

Lew

 

[Red_Label]

Re: I've come to the conclusion that the Celestion Vintage 30 is......

Could easily be 16 ohms...I've seen that many times. Many Marshall bottems use four 16 ohm Celestions wired in a series/parallel configuration so that the cab's impredence is 16 ohms. But I've never seen a Celestion labeled 15 ohms.

Lew

It was definitely 15 ohms Lew. I remember thinking "what the hell" when I saw that and had to look at it several times to make sure my eyes were working. I ended up checking all four front-loaded speakers to make sure. They were ALL rated at 15 ohms.

So now I'm definitely wondering if I just assumed they were Vintage 30's because I saw the words "Celestion" and "30" on them (along with "15 Ohms"). So I'll have to go back in there this weekend just to satisfy my curiosity.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: I've come to the conclusion that the Celestion Vintage 30 is......

It was definitely 15 ohms Lew. I remember thinking "what the hell" when I saw that and had to look at it several times to make sure my eyes were working. I ended up checking all four front-loaded speakers to make sure. They were ALL rated at 15 ohms.

So now I'm definitely wondering if I just assumed they were Vintage 30's because I saw the words "Celestion" and "30" on them (along with "15 Ohms"). So I'll have to go back in there this weekend just to satisfy my curiosity.

I believe ya! LOL! I only meant I've never seen one labeled 15 ohms myself.

Didn't know such a thing existed.

Lew

 

[Red_Label]

Re: I've come to the conclusion that the Celestion Vintage 30 is......

I believe ya! LOL! I only meant I've never seen one labeled 15 ohms myself.

Didn't know such a thing existed.

Lew

I hear you man. It freaked me out. I was trying to get an ohm rating so I could plug the cab into my Triamp and ended-up just figuring it at 16 ohms each. It seemed to work because I gigged it all year with out any issues on the amp or cab. I still have that cab (not the amp) but am partial right now to the mint Marshall 1960A that I just picked-up for $400. It's a nice cab. I know that I'm not supposed to like the GT12-75T's in it, but so far I DO... lol

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: I've come to the conclusion that the Celestion Vintage 30 is......

One more thing, Lew, as you know Celestion and Marshall are both guilty of the "using what we have" syndrone in the 60's. So who knows what was in cabinets from day to day.

Could easily be 16 ohms...I've seen that many times. Many Marshall bottems use four 16 ohm Celestions wired in a series/parallel configuration so that the cab's impredence is 16 ohms. But I've never seen a Celestion labeled 15 ohms.

Lew

Really Lew, you've never seen a 15 ohm Celestion? That's what my G1280s were in my 1982.

When I get my G1280s back in they'll be the standard 16 ohm. Being that Rola G1280s aren't the most popular speakers I couldn't move all four of them, and instead of splitting them up I decided to send them to Ted Weber for a recone. Talk about agonizing decisions!

The G1280s use the same large magnet as the G12Hs and most modern Celestions. I was originally going to go with a G12H/V30 recone, but I changed my mind at the last moment just in case I get a high power head in the future. I wanted a little wiggle room, plus a touch more old school sound than the V30s have.

I decided on 2 G1265s with 75Hz cones and 2 G1265s with 55Hz cones. I also gave Ted carte blanche to decide the dustcap on the ones 55Hz cones for the best balance with the other two. The G1280s had the large mags so the recones will as well. What's interesting is that I think that I'm essentially going to have both types of Reinhardts in my cabinet.

It's really interesting that we are discussing speakers today. I say that because on another forum I'm trying to convince guys that although tube differences can be perceived as drastic in comparison they are downright subtle compared to the changes you get by changing speakers.

Luke

 

[TimmyPage]

Re: I've come to the conclusion that the Celestion Vintage 30 is......

The er.. G12H30.. is the G12H on the site that's a 30 watt speaker? Or am I wrong?

Aad out of curiosity.. could two 30 watt speakers (one in the main combo, and one in the extension cab) handle a 50 watt amp?

 

[jeremy]

Re: I've come to the conclusion that the Celestion Vintage 30 is......

yes and yes

 

[Simon_F]

Re: I've come to the conclusion that the Celestion Vintage 30 is......

Really Lew, you've never seen a 15 ohm Celestion? That's what my G1280s were in my 1982.

Here's one of the speakers from the no-name 4x12 cab I acquired last year with my Marshall JMP 2204. I guess these are the same as yours Luke.

I've been thinking about selling this cab - a 4x12 is just too big for my purposes. Do you reckon the speakers are worth hanging onto? I could maybe keep two and put them in one of my 2x12s.

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: I've come to the conclusion that the Celestion Vintage 30 is......

I don't think there's any actual diffrence between 15 ohm and 16 ohm Celestions. It's just the approximate nominal impedance. 16 ohms on the label works out better for our common impedance math rules of thumbs, than 15 ohms on the label, though.

 

[disturb]

Re: I've come to the conclusion that the Celestion Vintage 30 is......

After going around with many of them, I've accepted the V30 as the best all around speaker. I personally think the Greenback is the best sounding speaker, but can't take the chance with it's wattage, and my amps. I really didn't like the G12H30's. There's an ear piercing frequency somewhere in the high end that I could not dial out. They were broken in also. At high volumes, it killed me. Put V30's back in and it smoothed right out. They are the speaker to have.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: I've come to the conclusion that the Celestion Vintage 30 is......

After going around with many of them, I've accepted the V30 as the best all around speaker. I personally think the Greenback is the best sounding speaker, but can't take the chance with it's wattage, and my amps. I really didn't like the G12H30's. There's an ear piercing frequency somewhere in the high end that I could not dial out. They were broken in also. At high volumes, it killed me. Put V30's back in and it smoothed right out. They are the speaker to have.

The Greenback is also a great speaker but it lacks a little bass compared to the G12H30. In an open back combo amp like the Deluxe Reverb the Vintage 30 or G12H30 will be louder and clearer than the Greenback...they're more efficient speakers. A very classic Celestion tone from the Greenback though...crunchy and chunky and textured. Excellant in a Marshall bottem, but not my fave in an open back combo amp because the bass is not as deep.

 

[OlinMusic]

Re: I've come to the conclusion that the Celestion Vintage 30 is......

I have recorded with Emi's, Budda Phat's, CL80, G12H30s, GB's, 65's and limited experience with the Blue and Gold.

Both live and recorded the V30 always allows me to sit in the mix and have fun from R&B to Metal. Sure you can specialize yourself, but the V30 always works.

I have the H30/V30 mix, but I am not as thrilled mixing as I am with 4 of the same thing. Hell you only get one mic 99% of the time.

I wish I could find a less harsh speaker. I have, but like the original post, I either end up muffled at high volumes, too compressed, or too high fi, or too something or other.

The V30, as much as I hate to admit it - ALWAYS WORKS! Even with my SF PRinceton verb, old Marshall, solid state amps, you name it.

 

[Hot _Grits]

Re: I've come to the conclusion that the Celestion Vintage 30 is......

The Greenback is also a great speaker but it lacks a little bass compared to the G12H30. In an open back combo amp like the Deluxe Reverb the Vintage 30 or G12H30 will be louder and clearer than the Greenback...they're more efficient speakers. A very classic Celestion tone from the Greenback though...crunchy and chunky and textured. Excellant in a Marshall bottem, but not my fave in an open back combo amp because the bass is not as deep.

Yeah, I'd go with that. I just did a bunch of tracking this week with a greenback loaded into a matamp 1x12 and the bottom definitely wasn't as strong as an H30 or V30 would be. Cool, classic Marshall tone, though. I'd love to get a 4x12 with greenbacks.

As for V30 and H30, I hear a smoother, more full frequency response in the H30, with a more relaxed midrange. To my ears, the V30 has an upper mid push and a rolled off top end.

I find that some amps just love the V30, and others don't. My Mesa Blue Angel sounds much better with H30s, as it's got a decent amount of upper mid push to the sound already.

In the same way that I like to have all the various amp flavours, I'm starting to collect different speaker flavours so I can further widen the range of sounds I can get. My plan is to eventually have V30s, H30s, fanes, Greenbacks, and alnico 10s and 12s to choose from...

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: I've come to the conclusion that the Celestion Vintage 30 is......

Here's one of the speakers from the no-name 4x12 cab I acquired last year with my Marshall JMP 2204. I guess these are the same as yours Luke.

I've been thinking about selling this cab - a 4x12 is just too big for my purposes. Do you reckon the speakers are worth hanging onto? I could maybe keep two and put them in one of my 2x12s.

Keep em if you want Simon, it just depends if you like em. Personally I thought they were pretty scooped and beamy with not enough personality to it.

In another two weeks I can tell you about how they work as 65s!

Luke