Jazz/59 swap for Seth Lover(s)?

[shavrane]

I have an Eastman T486 semi-hollowbody guitar (ES-335 style). It is a 2-humbucker guitar with a laminate maple body, ebony fingerboard and hard-tail bridge. The stock pick-ups are SD Jazz in the neck and SD '59 in the bridge. I mostly play blues and jazz through a Fender 68 Deluxe Reverb amp with flat-wound strings and prefer a warmer tone, one that does not have piercingly high trebles.

To my ear, even after guitar/amp knob adjustments, the guitar is very bright and I'm considering swapping pick-ups to darken the sound and make it warmer/fatter. So here's my question for this esteemed group of pick-up gurus....

Am I "safe" to only change the neck pick-up which would result in an Alnico 2 magnet in the neck (Seth Lover) and an Alnico 5 magnet in the bridge (current '59)? Or would I be better off to swap both pick-ups with a set of Seth Lovers?

Your inputs/recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

 

[skelt101]

I would recommend changing both. The Jazz and 59 sound like the opposite of what you’re looking for. Go for either the Seth Lover set (like you mentioned), or Alnico II Pros. :bigthumb:

 

[Clint 55]

Welcome to the forum.

The Seth set is actually thinner, not fatter. Although the Jazz does have more true treble, the Seths have less fundamental roundness and won't give you that fat warmth that you're looking for, especially with the flatwounds.

If you want fat and warm: take the 59 bridge, swap in an A2 magnet, and put it the neck. Or take the Jazz and swap in an A2 creating an Alnico 2 Pro.

Whether you want to worry about the bridge pickup or not is up to you. Most don't use it alone at all for jazz. It is only really used by some in middle position. Blues can obviously use the bridge pickup alone. Here is a post and thread on it from the jazz forum

"Almost always played 2 pickup archtops when I first started, beginning w an ES-175, then an L-5 and Super 400. Never used the bridge pickup until I started gigging regularly and also mixing in some R&B tunes or funk tunes in a band setting (although there were a number of gigs as a single and duo where I used a carved top w floater) But playing in a band setting combined w different rooms/venues had me experimenting w blending the two pickups. There are some rooms that just can't handle a big box w heavy strings on the neck pickup alone, just too boomy especially when comping, and blending both tames that problem. I've never used the bridge pickup exclusively, just too thin and jangly sounding for my needs.

Playing at home is always the neck pickup alone but when gigging or playing in a group situation it's not always practical."

https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/guitar-amps-gizmos/81544-my-thought-about-pickups.html

 

[Mincer]

Honestly, I think the Seth set is wonderful for jazz and blues. I use that set (although with rounds) through a Deluxe, and they are extremely touch sensitive. I think it would be an improvement over the Jazz and 59, both of which do not have many mids at all.

 

[Blille]

You may be satisfied with the magnet swap Clint suggests. It’s worth a try.

That said, I have Seths in my semi and it feels like a marriage made in heaven.

 

[Clint 55]

Okie dokie. So there are 2 issues. The OP wants to eliminate the strident treble of the Jazz AND he wants it warmer, darker, and fatter. Swapping pickups is fun, Seths sound nice and pretty, they are less strident than a jazz, BUT they are NOT fatter than an A2 59 or an A2 Jazz aka the Alnico 2 pro.

All options will reduce strident treble. If you prioritize fatness, the order of fatness is:

A2 59 bridge in the neck
A2 Jazz aka Alnico 2 Pro
Seths

I prefer a warmer tone, one that does not have piercingly high trebles. I'm considering swapping pick-ups to darken the sound and make it warmer/fatter.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Well, a Jazz with an A2 is an Alnico II Pro. I'd recommend that.

A2 is not really fatter than A5, though. Warmer, yes. But not fatter.

 

[Clint 55]

^ That's why I'm warning that the Seths are a downgrade for fatness even though they're A2 if the OP prioritizes that. The 59 bridge in the neck is going to be the fattest, swapping an A2 mag in will darken it and reduce treble. Jazz with A2 - an Alnico 2 Pro will be the 2nd fattest. Nice, pretty, appealing, highly regarded and recommended Seths would actually be the least fattest.

 

[freefrog]

I have an Eastman T486 semi-hollowbody guitar (ES-335 style). It is a 2-humbucker guitar with a laminate maple body, ebony fingerboard and hard-tail bridge. The stock pick-ups are SD Jazz in the neck and SD '59 in the bridge. I mostly play blues and jazz through a Fender 68 Deluxe Reverb amp with flat-wound strings and prefer a warmer tone, one that does not have piercingly high trebles.

To my ear, even after guitar/amp knob adjustments, the guitar is very bright and I'm considering swapping pick-ups to darken the sound and make it warmer/fatter. So here's my question for this esteemed group of pick-up gurus....

Am I "safe" to only change the neck pick-up which would result in an Alnico 2 magnet in the neck (Seth Lover) and an Alnico 5 magnet in the bridge (current '59)? Or would I be better off to swap both pick-ups with a set of Seth Lovers?

Your inputs/recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Welcome onboard.

IMHO, each guitar has its own tone and might therefore require other pickups than the next instrument built the same day in the same factory. So, take the words below with a grain of salt.

Disparity is not necessarily an issue in such a case: I've here a semi-hollow with a long A2 mag in neck position and a short A5 in bridge and it's the best possible solution for THIS guitar with its defined PU's.

On the basis on my own subjective experience, I think to Seth's as tight and middy whereas jazz & SH1's seem more mid-scooped. Which is logical since A5 = more magnetic strenght = more perceived bass and treble.

So, a pair of A2 magnets in the existing PU's might be something to try. But it won't give the "honky" quality of mids with Seth Lover's, due to their unpotted coils.

A BRIDGE Seth in NECK position would most probably make the sound warmer and fatter (done that a couple of times in various guitars and it worked well. Let's keep in mind that original P.A.F.'s had no "neck" or "bridge" models: some vintage Gibson's have their stronger humbucker in the neck slot).

Now, there's easier possible solutions than changing pickups or mags (or pots). Example:

https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/...ors-to-a-coil-to-change-the-tone-of-my-pickup

Further explanations there:

https://forum.seymourduncan.com/for...iloring-wiring-circuits?p=6096864#post6096864

FWIW. Good luck in your quest.

 

[Blille]

^ That's why I'm warning that the Seths are a downgrade for fatness even though they're A2 if the OP prioritizes that. The 59 bridge in the neck is going to be the fattest, swapping an A2 mag in will darken it and reduce treble. Jazz with A2 - an Alnico 2 Pro will be the 2nd fattest. Nice, pretty, appealing, highly regarded and recommended Seths would actually be the least fattest.

I mean, you could do A6 for the bridge

Also getting the pickup closer to the strings will help.

 

[Clint 55]

Could do A2 or A6 all around. :fing2:

 

[EmiAba]

Other guys have already given you a lot of options, but I want to add one more. Replace only one pickup, the jazz, with a 59 and then swap magnets in order to have a 59A3 in neck and a 59A2 in bridge. I think it will work

 

[Rex_Rocker]

^ That's why I'm warning that the Seths are a downgrade for fatness even though they're A2 if the OP prioritizes that. The 59 bridge in the neck is going to be the fattest, swapping an A2 mag in will darken it and reduce treble. Jazz with A2 - an Alnico 2 Pro will be the 2nd fattest. Nice, pretty, appealing, highly regarded and recommended Seths would actually be the least fattest.

Agreed.

I might actually suggest up'ing it a notch. Hotter pickups tend to be both fatter and darker (warmer?). I'd say Hybrid/'59B with A2 magnets could work as well.

 

[freefrog]

FWIW, I've worked once on a guitar with an A2P bridge in neck position and it was too bassy compared to the bridge PU ( a regular P.A.F. clone, I don't remember which one). The amp settings had to be changed when the neck PU was used. Experience might have been different with another guitar, even of the same model or series... but in this case, the A2P had to be swapped out.

That being said, I'd keep in mind that "the" sound of a given pickup model always blends with the sonic personality of the instrument in which it's mounted and that semi-hollow guitars have often (paradoxically) a narrower EQing curve than solid bodies for structural reasons.

A defined pickup can sound noticeably different in such instruments. The option that I've selected for my semi-hollow wouldn't work in one of my solid bodies and that's something that I would take in account for this topic.


To the OP: I've never played an Eastman T486 but if it has a maple neck and an ebony fretboard, no wonder if it sounds brighter than a similar guitar with mahogany neck and rosewood fingerboard...

You have now a bunch of options to consider. Good luck in your choice.

 

[beaubrummels]

Everyone keeps suggesting mag swaps. Don't know if the OP pickups have covers or not, or if they've ever messed with pickups before.

I'd suggest just removing and selling the 59/Jazz set and installing a set of Alnico 2 Pros. Don't overthink it.