Junior Tuners.

[Lucius Paisley]

I'm looking for new tuners for an LP Junior-type guitar. And trying to figure out if locking tuners is always the way to go. I read somewhere (you can probably guess where) that a good "fit" for a Junior is Grover tuners. Which is okay, I like Grover tuners. However, I'm left wondering if a good ratio beats locking tuners, or is it a preference thing? or even a money thing?

 

[beaubrummels]

High ratio gives you precision in tuning, but doesn't affect how well it stays in tune. Useful if you are changing tuning slightly to a better temperament for the song you are playing/recording (as much as can be achieved with a fretted guitar anyway).

Locking tuners help if you are doing a lot of bending or have a vibrato on the guitar. But even locking doesn't solve everything, because with lots of bending, the string itself will start to loose integrity and eventually break.

For me the decision of locking vs high ratio is a matter of what problem I'm trying to solve; vibrato or bending? or want to have precision in tuning?

With Grovers, you can change the tuner key to something else, like either the original white plastic that Juniors came with, or to a smaller Grover kidney, etc.

 

[JMP/HBE]

Had button tuners on my 58' Jr. Tribute.
I chose to replace them with vintage Keystones.
Much prefer those.
Locking not needed if you know how to restring the posts properly.

 

[Lucius Paisley]

Had button tuners on my 58' Jr. Tribute.
I chose to replace them with vintage Keystones.
Much prefer those.
Locking not needed if you know how to restring the posts properly.

It won't be an issue for me because I hate changing strings so much that I pay to have somebody else do it. It's a bit silly, I know, but convenience will beat laziness EVERY time. At least in my case.

At the moment the tuners, and the ones I replaced, have that screwhole at a 45 degree angle thing. If Keystones or similar can cover those holes, I might go with that. I'm not sure why that would matter considering what's been done to the guitar already, but still.

 

[Mincer]

Some tuners, like Hipshots , come with plates that cover up existing holes. I like locking tuners for the ease of string changing These days, you can get nice, lightweight locking ones. Can I ask, why are you changing them>

 

[Lucius Paisley]

Some tuners, like Hipshots , come with plates that cover up existing holes. I like locking tuners for the ease of string changing These days, you can get nice, lightweight locking ones. Can I ask, why are you changing them>

I had the locking ones from another guitar by the same makers, I thought they'd slip right in, but not all of them fit together properly once in place. It might be as simple as swapping them around until they fit right. Or even changing back to the originals, which would defeat the whole purpose of the easy string-changing aspect.

I also hadn't seen anything about the locking vs ratio thing, so I wanted to ask about that and get some opinions overall.

I hadn't even considered the weight / neck dive thing, but the Junior shape leans towards having a heavier body, so I doubt it would make that much difference, if any.

 

[jeremy]

locking is convenient. the ratio is how easily you can be accurate. the two have nothing to do with each other. the hole size required varies by manufacturer, if you know what size you need (10mm for example) you can find tuners that are a direct fit

 

[Mincer]

Higher ratio means more accuracy, but most modern tuners are accurate enough. Generally you go from 15:1 to 40:1, with the latter being more accurate, but 15:1 is fine for most people. You might want to check the weight of the current tuners, and look up locking tuners that are about the same.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Do you need Kluson-style? Meaning with the narrower whole they go through? If so, Gotoh vintage tuners are great. If not, Gotoh modern tuners are great, LOL.

I like Grovers as well, but I prefer Gotohs if I have the choice, personally.

Gotoh 510's are the best I've tried, hands down. But regular non 510 Gotohs are as solid as anything out there, and they're not expensive either.

 

[Aceman]

Grovers and a well cut nut and be done.

But if you want to k"keep the vibe" and insist on Klusons, get the new Gotoh ones. Nothing but love from the LP community on those. Well cut nut still applies.


I remember getting 22:1 ratio on my #1 LP. I thought that was insanely high ratio. And they held it well also.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Grovers and a well cut nut and be done.

But if you want to k"keep the vibe" and insist on Klusons, get the new Gotoh ones. Nothing but love from the LP community on those. Well cut nut still applies.


I remember getting 22:1 ration on my #1 LP. I thought that was insanely high ration. And they held it well also.

Grover Kluson-styles are also good. The problem with those is the bushings are the modern style. So yeah, I'd go with Gotoh.

 

[GuitarDoc]

It won't be an issue for me because I hate changing strings so much that I pay to have somebody else do it. It's a bit silly, I know, but convenience will beat laziness EVERY time. At least in my case.
.

Unless you have a tech right with you 24/7 and can change your strings within 10 minutes of when you need it, how is it more convenient?
Just curious.

 

[Lucius Paisley]

Unless you have a tech right with you 24/7 and can change your strings within 10 minutes of when you need it, how is it more convenient?
Just curious.

To clarify - when I want NEW strings.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

If you like Grovers, there are also 18:1 locking Grovers, BTW.

I've had the self-locking and the thumbscrew variety, and both have been solid.

I still recommend Gotoh, tho, LOL. They're cheaper, and honestly, when you have them side by side, they look and feel better made, IMO.

 

[Lucius Paisley]

If you like Grovers, there are also 18:1 locking Grovers, BTW.

I've had the self-locking and the thumbscrew variety, and both have been solid.

I still recommend Gotoh, tho, LOL. They're cheaper, and honestly, when you have them side by side, they look and feel better made, IMO.

I'm thinking about the Gotoh Kluson style. I just need to do some measuring first to see if there's enough space on the headstock.

Otherwise, I might just go with some modern Gotohs and change the button style.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I'm thinking about the Gotoh Kluson style. I just need to do some measuring first to see if there's enough space on the headstock.

Otherwise, I might just go with some modern Gotohs and change the button style.

For the modern-style tuners, they offer lots of options. Lightweight aluminum buttons, plastic buttons that sorta resemble the vintage look, etc.



You can also buy third-party aftermarket buttons. I ordered some Kluson-style buttons for my Les Paul off Tone Ninja.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

IMO locking tuners are a fix for a trem guitar that won't stay in tune even with a well-cut nut.
They do make taking off old strings a little faster, handy if you change strings every day when touring or for recording.

A high ratio offers luxurious precision when turning the buttons, but you can still get in perfect tune with old style low ratios.

To my eyes, keystone tuners just look wrong on a Junior type guitar.
I'd want button tuners. Or maybe milk bottle Grovers.

 

[Lucius Paisley]

IMO locking tuners are a fix for a trem guitar that won't stay in tune even with a well-cut nut.
They do make taking off old strings a little faster, handy if you change strings every day when touring or for recording.

A high ratio offers luxurious precision when turning the buttons, but you can still get in perfect tune with old style low ratios.

To my eyes, keystone tuners just look wrong on a Junior type guitar.
I'd want button tuners. Or maybe milk bottle Grovers.

The tuners I'm looking at are 16:1, and in either case I'd go for the small white round button.

05PW as shown above.

 

[JMP/HBE]

IMO locking tuners are a fix for a trem guitar that won't stay in tune even with a well-cut nut.
They do make taking off old strings a little faster, handy if you change strings every day when touring or for recording.

A high ratio offers luxurious precision when turning the buttons, but you can still get in perfect tune with old style low ratios.

To my eyes, keystone tuners just look wrong on a Junior type guitar.
I'd want button tuners. Or maybe milk bottle Grovers.

Nothing wrong with button tuners cept they're dinky.
I like a bigger key to grab and like the looks.
Things have changed since 1958.
I had a button tuner break before, not a fan of that.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

The tuners I'm looking at are 16:1, and in either case I'd go for the small white round button.

05PW as shown above.

I'm guessing the SG381's? I've had the 16:1 ones before. They're great. Not as accurate as the 18:1 Grovers, but really solid, smooth-turning, and equally stable.

The white round buttons are pearloid, though. Be aware. I've got a set like that.