Just made a 5-4-2 single coil pickup

[Demanic]

While rummaging in the garage looking for something, I found a cheap single coil pickup that I took out of the bridge of my orange Lucite strat several years ago. A while back, I had removed the ceramic magnet and succeeded in loosening the metal slug pieces without damaging the coil. The coil wire was wrapped around the plastic bobbin and not in direct contact with the pole pieces. I proceeded to replace the slugs with some rod magnets that I had gotten from AddictionFX a while ago, for that very purpose. I put A2's in the high E and B spots, A4's for the G and D and A5's for the A and low E positions. Tested it out and it worked. I had to hold the magnets in position with scotch tape to keep them seated, but now that I know it produces sound, I'm going to epoxy them in at the base. Then it's going in the neck spot of my orange strat again.

 

[Demanic]

Re: Just made a 5-4-2 single coil pickup

Any down side to having these different grade magnets in close proximity to each other?

 

[Davii]

Re: Just made a 5-4-2 single coil pickup

I've stuck to grouping similar magnets to string type, but had contemplated trying this as well. No idea about the proximity of the magnets stuff though.

 

[Demanic]

Re: Just made a 5-4-2 single coil pickup

Oh well, just wondering. I suppose I will find out.

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Just made a 5-4-2 single coil pickup

Any down side to having these different grade magnets in close proximity to each other?

Not in this specific context.

I thought many times of doing mix-'n-match of rod mags on single coils, but with no request at all of single-coil p'ups in my neck of woods, getting all the necessary stuff was going to get much too expensive for me to just satisfy my curiosity and could not afford to do it properly.

If my "Tone Whisperer" project finally gets funded, I have several designs requiring different grades of rod magnets.

When I was younger, I was told "Never stop dreaming, as just a simple idea might change the world". Now, as an adult, I'd say "Only if that idea gets funded".

LtKojak aka "The Grumpy, Cynical one"

 

[Demanic]

Re: Just made a 5-4-2 single coil pickup

lol I funded this one myself. For no other reason than I wanted to see if it would work. Since I haven't actually installed it yet, all of that remains to be seen.

 

[Davii]

Re: Just made a 5-4-2 single coil pickup

Not in this specific context.

I thought many times of doing mix-'n-match of rod mags on single coils, but with no request at all of single-coil p'ups in my neck of woods, getting all the necessary stuff was going to get much too expensive for me to just satisfy my curiosity and could not afford to do it properly.

If my "Tone Whisperer" project finally gets funded, I have several designs requiring different grades of rod magnets.

When I was younger, I was told "Never stop dreaming, as just a simple idea might change the world". Now, as an adult, I'd say "Only if that idea gets funded".

LtKojak aka "The Grumpy, Cynical one"

More expensive due to getting hold of the rods?

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Just made a 5-4-2 single coil pickup

More expensive due to getting hold of the rods?

Yes, as the known good sounding mags from the best foundries you gotta buy in bulk.

Mag resellers change suppliers all the time, so you don't really know what you get, as they tend to buy what that's the cheapest at that moment, so it's just a hit-and-miss business, and even if you by sheer luck find the "right" recipe in that particular batch of Alnico, how could you reproduce it without knowing the exact recipe?

Plus, shipping to Europe is always expensive, not to talk about customs, VAT and arbitrary administrative fees?

I got a couple of A2 bars from cermag as a gift from a friend of mine; I haven't tried'em yet, but if they sound good, their prices are pretty reasonable. It's a shame they don't do roughcast, so I reckon they're not makers but resellers of mags, most probably of chinese origin. Not that's anything wrong with mags coming from China, mind you! The chinese foundries I've contacted are more than capable to run custom batches with vintage formulae... but you need to move at least a thousand bars from each one. Not exactly affordable for a "hobbist", isn't it?

 

[Davii]

Re: Just made a 5-4-2 single coil pickup

Yes, as the known good sounding mags from the best foundries you gotta buy in bulk.

Mag resellers change suppliers all the time, so you don't really know what you get, as they tend to buy what that's the cheapest at that moment, so it's just a hit-and-miss business, and even if you by sheer luck find the "right" recipe in that particular batch of Alnico, how could you reproduce it without knowing the exact recipe?

Plus, shipping to Europe is always expensive, not to talk about customs, VAT and arbitrary administrative fees?

I got a couple of A2 bars from cermag as a gift from a friend of mine; I haven't tried'em yet, but if they sound good, their prices are pretty reasonable. It's a shame they don't do roughcast, so I reckon they're not makers but resellers of mags, most probably from chinese origin. Not that's anything wrong with mags coming from China, mind you! The chinese foundries I've contacted are more than capable to run custom batches with vintage formulae... but you need to move at least a thousand bars from each one. Not exactly affordable for a "hobbist", isn't it?

Ah... I'd not know whether any I'd got from Cermag (or anywhere else for that matter) were good, bad, or indifferent. The guy I've spoken to seems talkative enough, so you might be able to find out some of those details(?)

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Just made a 5-4-2 single coil pickup

Any down side to having these different grade magnets in close proximity to each other?

Magnets won't influence one another unless they're touching. Simply being in each other's field is not enough to alter their charge level. The charged particles have to have direct contact to transfer, or meet at a common physical contact that can transfer a charge (like a metal strip or small screw that stuck to the bottom of the two poles when you removed the pickguard).

 

[Demanic]

Re: Just made a 5-4-2 single coil pickup

Cool, I was hoping that would be the case.

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Just made a 5-4-2 single coil pickup

Magnets won't influence one another unless they're touching. Simply being in each other's field is not enough to alter their charge level. The charged particles have to have direct contact to transfer, or meet at a common physical contact that can transfer a charge (like a metal strip or small screw that stuck to the bottom of the two poles when you removed the pickguard).

Might want to quantify this a bit. I have a couple large neos that will fubar a alnico from 2 or 3 inches away.

Exactly what particles are charged? And no a magentic field doesnt have to touch to transfer a charge and dont forget how they are oriented to each other makes a large difference also.


As it stands its unlikely the small alnicos in demanics pickup will bother each other. But the way you worded your post makes it sound like absolutes and it isnt even close.

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Just made a 5-4-2 single coil pickup

Because neos are a totally different beast, as is common knowledge (or at least I thought so).

When things start moving towards your guitar, then you might have a problem, but since the subject was Alnicos/pickup magnets in general, it made no sense to cover neodymium or electro-magnets for that matter.

As for what particles are charged...

After the manufacturing is completed, the magnet requires “charging” to produce an external magnetic field. This can be accomplished in a solenoid – a hollow cylinder into which various magnet sizes and shapes can be placed – or with fixtures designed to impart unique magnetic patterns. It is also possible to magnetize large assemblies to avoid handling and assembling these powerful magnets in their magnetized condition. The magnetizing field requirements are substantial. This, as many other aspects of magnet selection, should be discussed with your magnet vendor.

Source: http://www.arnoldmagnetics.com/Magnet_Manufacturing_Process.aspx
just past halfway down the page.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Just made a 5-4-2 single coil pickup

Because neos are a totally different beast, as is common knowledge (or at least I thought so).

When things start moving towards your guitar, then you might have a problem, but since the subject was Alnicos/pickup magnets in general, it made no sense to cover neodymium or electro-magnets for that matter.

Even just strong ceramics can degauss the weaker alnicos if they are oriented in the wrong directions and left for enough time.


This is why I said you might want to quantify it a bit. If you had said "the magnets" meaning the specific ones in the OPs pups this would be clearer (but doesnt address other inaccuracies that were stated) but you chose to open with just "magnets" in general, which makes the post sound like its referring to all magnets.

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Just made a 5-4-2 single coil pickup



If in doubt, just ask this guy!

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Just made a 5-4-2 single coil pickup

Pfft. That guy. Probably wouldn't know an A2 from an A5 if it fell on him.

 

[DreX]

Re: Just made a 5-4-2 single coil pickup

I don't think you're going to hear much in the way of string to string difference for a couple reasons; 1) the relative difference in strength between the pole pieces will be nearly inaudible, 2) the eddy current effects of the differing magnets will act upon the entire coil, and not apply to a particular string.

I have a set of Antiquity IIs in a Strat, and one day I was testing the strength of the pole pieces with a very pin point precise magnetometer (suggested by LtKojak in fact) and found that one particular pole piece had less than half the charge as the rest, but the strange thing was that that string, the A, was not noticeably quieter than the E or the D strings beside it. There's two possibilities, 1) a weak magnet is still strong enough to produce a reasonably loud output, and/or 2) the flanking E and D magnets helped make up for the difference.

This issue of an A5 and an A2 differing principally because of eddy currents that are produced within the magnet itself makes me wonder about the technical validity of the idea that the SSL-52 "Five-Two" actually works as advertised. From what I understand, eddy currents effect the performance of the coil no matter where it is, whether they be inside the coil, or over and around the coil, or under the coil. If that's true, then putting A2 under the E,B and G, and A5's under the D,A,E wont create an SSL-1 low strings / APS-1 high strings, but rather the would wash together for a cumulative result that applied equally to all six strings.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Just made a 5-4-2 single coil pickup

i dont know about the science but the 5/2 pup does what its supposed to. a5 spank on the wound strings and a2 warmth on the unwound

 

[DreX]

Re: Just made a 5-4-2 single coil pickup

i dont know about the science but the 5/2 pup does what its supposed to. a5 spank on the wound strings and a2 warmth on the unwound

Something kinda interesting, the APS-1 is wound to 6.5K, peak of 9kHz, the SSL-1 is wound to 6.5K with a peak of 10kHz, then you have the SSL-52 wound to 6.7K with a peak of 8.2K. That's a hot wind by Strat standards. I wonder why they opted not to use the same wind as an SSL-1 or and APS-1.

 

[GilmourD]

Re: Just made a 5-4-2 single coil pickup

The chinese foundries I've contacted are more than capable to run custom batches with vintage formulae... but you need to move at least a thousand bars from each one. Not exactly affordable for a "hobbist", isn't it?

I'm still waiting for you to become Europe's premier magnet supplier.