Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

[Red_Label]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

What tone are you expecting from the xtc? Where are you getting lost on the dials? Not enough gain? Too much mids? Need more smooth and fatness? Crank it (with an attenuator) or get different tubes. It's a loud amp that sounds good on low volumes but shines on gig/rehearsal levels.

The xtc by nature is a very 'piano clean' kind of amp with a ton of mids on board. I've found myself taming these high frequencies on my 101B and ended up with V30 speakers in a padded marshall cab and E34L power tubes for some more low mids. That was the ticket for me.

Been through the dials, switches, etc many times over. Swapped-out tubes with whatever I could get my hands-on, including some of the most recommended combos for this particular model.

I dunno man, it just doesn't have that smooth, liquid Bogner thing that I think I'm looking for, so far. Now that I say that, I'm starting to wonder if I am looking more for the 101B's tone than the Classic. But I'm confused about that too. Because I've always heard that the Classic is more open-sounding. Which I think I prefer. I guess. I want articulation of individual notes. The older I get, the more I shy away from gain.

To give you an idea of how I ran my EL34 Shiva (and mostly liked), I ran the gain at noon. Rarely higher. I used a Fulltone OCD to hit the front end and give it some edge and roar. On that pedal, the gain was low (9:00) and the volumed was dimed. So it just added an edge there, but the notes remained articulate and clearly defined. I like that. So far, the XTC Classic seems "ratty", unsmooth, and just not refined to my ears. Now, if I turn the gain down to noon and hit it with the OCD, it sounds a bit like the Shiva did. Which is cool. But I was hoping to get similar tones from the XTC WITHOUT using the OCD.

Bottom line is, so far, anything I'm getting out of the XTC, I can get out of my Traynor just as well, if not better. That's the stickler. I just expect it to be a notch (or two) "better", more refined, more "juicy", whatever. That's why I am not yet satisfied.

Taking a break from playing tonight. Can't remember the last time I took a day off from playing. Might do me some good.

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

Before you give up on the XTC Classic, try trading it straight across for a regular 101B, and see if that's what you were hoping for. The 101B has more control over each channel's gain structure.

Yeah, I'm starting to wonder if I should have got the 101B instead. I held-out for the Classic because I thought it would be more my (somewhat low-gain) style. But I am starting to question my decision.

My bud with the 101B is going to pop-over sometime. Wish he could bring his 101B. But it hasn't left the church he plays at in FOUR years. So I dunno if it'll be coming over with him or not.

We're both gimped-out anyways. He's got some neurological thing going-on that he's looking into, and I just found-out today that I've got herniated disks in my lower back. So I'm working on getting in for an epidural tomorrow or Friday, and then have to make an appointment with neurology in case I have to proceed beyond the epi's to surgery. May end-up selling the Bogner just to pay the what insurance doesn't pay. LOL...

 

[zzmoore]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

Maybe I am dense.....
If you are so happy with the Traynor (sounds like you are), what is the big deal with ditching the Bogner and recouping the cash? It is just ONE amp......
Good Luck

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

My thoughts (for what they are worth) (intended in the best possible way here)

Rules I repeat to myself when looking at amps -
Someone should not have to talk himself/herself self into liking an amp. I do not like V30's very much. V30's do not work for me with very many amps, and then in a very limited use. This nearly always involves a fair amounts of gain (I have 8 cabs so talking to myself about speakers is often an issue!). Use your ears and not someone elses to decide if the core tone of an amp is more to your liking. Do not let the value of an amp the call use your ears. Do not let "looks cool" get into the process of decisions about amps/guitars/pedals/cabs/etc. Speakers are generally far more important when looking at an amp than I wish to admit initially (in my case I have enough to try to help that out). Guitar pickups are next most important thing to consider. Then volume levels are next most important - What sounds good in a stadium may not sound so good at Joe's Bar and Grill (do not talk yourself in "sounds good cranked" if you do not live in a "cranked" world). The reverse is also true about volume. There is no perfect amp - or tone. There is no amp that does everything - no matter what anyone says. Make sure all those expensive pedals you love (more than the cost of the amp in this case) work with the amp. Remember how many different amps one can buy for the money. Every day (or at least once a week) there is a new great amp that is developed - see there is no perfect amp.

All very good points. And I hate to say it, but I haven't yet had the XTC above noon on the master. And only then just for a power chord or two. Usually I'm playing at 9:00-10:00. That's as much as I feel comfortable with, concerning how close my neighbors live. They've never complained, but the wife has mentioned how loud I sound outside (when she's on that side of the house) when I play. Let's put it this way... I play loud enough that I always wear ear plugs, EVERY day. Gotta protect my ears from tinitus. Started getting that a few years ago and got it to back-off by wearing plugs. Don't want to go there again.

 

[Stef]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

I liked the xtc 101B through a marshall TV cab (4 X M)..a matching bogner cab (V30) was harsh, piercing and very loud...I used 2 nice strats (SSS)...
It's my friend's amp and usually his tone with the band is awesome, but sometimes very mushy and solid state like...

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

I liked the xtc 101B through a marshall TV cab (4 X M)..a matching bogner cab (V30) was harsh, piercing and very loud...I used 2 nice strats (SSS)...
It's my friend's amp and usually his tone with the band is awesome, but sometimes very mushy and solid state like...

Many tube amps are like that. Jeckylle & Hyde. Never know exactly who's gonna show up. My Traynor has been pretty solid and consistent for almost four years of home and gig playing. Not quite sure about the XTC yet. Probably because I've changed settings and tubes constandtly since buying it. LOL...

 

[J Moose]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

Not quite sure about the XTC yet. Probably because I've changed settings and tubes constandtly since buying it. LOL...

Well maybe that's at least half the problem? I can't ever remember changing tubes & whatnot daily... pick some settings and live with 'em for a while. Like, a week or so and really get to know the thing.

With the volume thing, maybe if you never get the master up over 10 o'clock you'd be better off with a smaller amp? The average 15-25 watt head through a 4x12 will still peel paint off the walls... just won't crack the foundations.

There's nothing wrong with digging less expensive amps more anyway... plenty of cats out there who could afford to play through whatever they want and still choose a standard old Twin, Peavey or Marshall. Something really common.

 

[Andrew Lamprecht]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

There's nothing wrong with digging less expensive amps more anyway... plenty of cats out there who could afford to play through whatever they want and still choose a standard old Twin, Peavey or Marshall. Something really common.

Again I say to thee. Jeff Beck and Pro Junior. :scratchch

 

[Stef]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

Not quite sure about the XTC yet. Probably because I've changed settings and tubes constandtly since buying it. LOL...

my friend was (is) doing the same thing with the tubes and settings - I think he's using some NOS Phillips el34 now...btw I hate all those switches on the front panel and what sounds best to me is modern bias on the back, full power.

IMO xtc's sound best with 25 watt speakers...

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

Maybe I am dense.....
If you are so happy with the Traynor (sounds like you are), what is the big deal with ditching the Bogner and recouping the cash? It is just ONE amp......
Good Luck

I hear you, and that's ultimately where I've been thinking this may end-up. But I just want to make sure to give the Bogner every chance I can and be sure I'm not missing something here. I've held on to the Traynor during my experimentations with other amps (like the Shiva that I had for the past 8 months), because it's a great sounding amp, and an ever better value. It's in no danger of going anywhere. And at the very least, will be my backup gigging amp. But like many players, I can be restless and always looking to see if there's something "better" out there. Something that makes you go "WOW... this amp amazes me EVERY day in EVERY way -- I dunno how I lived without it for all of these years". That's the way my friend has been with his 101B for the past ten years. And this guy is a GASser, and an endless tweaker of gear. But for a decade now, his "home" has been his XTC. I think that I could feel that way about my Traynor, but want to make sure that I've exhausted most other options (at least in big names) before I officially declare my tone search to be over.

I've been gigging for 24 years in various metal, classic rock, and country bands. So I need an amp that covers a wide variety of styles well. Bogners are pretty good at that. There are some awesome one-trick pony amps out there, but I've got little interest in them because I don't just play one style day-in, day-out.

In fact, the Eleven Rack that I've had for the past month has finally ended my search for a recording and daily practice solution. Before that, I'd been using an Egnater Tweaker (briefly) and before that a Vox Tonelab LE. The 11R has many great tones in there, and they are the most realistic of any modeler I've tried (which has been most -- except the Fractal).

Anyways... I may indeed decide to sell the XTC and just stick with my trusty old Traynor YCS100H. I'm really not opposed to that, just want to make sure. And likely if I do, I'll have a second one for a spare. I already did have a second one for a year -- ran them stereo at the larger venues. But sold one when I got my Shiva last year. Should've just kept the two Traynor setup and stayed-put I guess.

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

my friend was (is) doing the same thing with the tubes and settings - I think he's using some NOS Phillips el34 now...btw I hate all those switches on the front panel and what sounds best to me is modern bias on the back, full power.

IMO xtc's sound best with 25 watt speakers...

Yeah, 25 watt speakers are the only ones I don't have. Might have to see if a friend's got a cab with Greenbacks in it I can borrow.

I worked-through those switches early on. Just took my time and figured-out how each one effected the tone as differing gain levels and EQ settings.

I definitely prefer the New setting over the Old. I think that most do. Full power and half power haven't really seemed to make much difference to my ears thus far.

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

Took the night off from playing last night and just sat around and enjoyed junk TV (Dog, The Bounty Hunter and Full Throttle Saloon). It's been quite a while since I took a day off from playing. Sometimes that helps put things in perspective.

Gonna try the XTC into my T75-loaded cab tonight, as well as fire-up the Traynor again for more A/B testing. Could be a make or break night for the XTC. Last time I had a make-or-break session it was with the 11R (that I had deemed would be going-back to MF the day before). Ended-up loving the 11R that day and have really enjoyed it ever since. So who knows... maybe the Bogner and I will finally bond today?

 

[Kam]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

Wow... I see this got moved to the Trading Post. Wacky. I haven't even said I was putting it up for sale at this point. Still looking for ideas to salvage our "relationsip", and having a friend who's got a 101B pop-by my place sometime to pick his brain. Hard to get as many ideas cause not everyone visits the Trading Post. I don't come here all that often.

:/

Actually...I'm pretty sure you posted it in The Trading Post. That's what I meant with my first post. It didn't really read like a sale thread.

Good luck trying the different speakers. It really sucks that this wasn't the grail that you thought it could be. To be honest, I'm really surprised that it isn't living up to your expectations.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

Try to convince your friend to sit his 101B next to your Classic, and play both.
If the 101B has a slight bit more compression, whereas the Classic is more open or hard under the fingers, it could be that you prefer the former. Natural sounding tube compression isn't a bad thing - it's what smooths out the rattiness.

 

[thunderkyss]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

So I dunno... gettin' close to sending the Bogner on it's way and maybe just continuing to enjoy the Traynor. Disappointing though. This has been the amp of my dreams for a decade, and it's just not delivering thus far. Will give her another shot or two though because I don't want to live with any more regrets.

So....... if the XTC is the amp of your dream, why did you get the Shiva first?

 

[BloodRose]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

If the XTC was the 'dream amp' for a decade, what gave it that status? Had you played one 10 years ago and loved it? Maybe with a different instrument or musical mindset?

Sorry to hear it ain't working out so far...

Wish I had some advice on things to try but aside from radically different speakers, I don't and I'm honestly not a huge fan of the XTC or Uberschall. There IS a rather 'in your face' quality to the upper-mids that hits me like an ice-pick. Cuts through a mix but it isn't what I like to hear and have behind me while playing... Soldano's move me in much the same way. Something about the inherent 'voice' of the amp that can't be dialed out.

I agree on many points. First, I think the XTC may be one of my dream amps, but unfortunately that is soley based on what I hear it sounds like and youtoob clips. Ive NOT had the chance to play one.. So, I could be in for a huge let down if I were to buy one.. Or not..

Next, Ive had the same thing with many a Marshall. I dreamed for years of owning Marshalls.. Because all my heros growing up used them and then I really discovered music hard in the 80s, when all the bands were using walls of JCM800s. I always thought the JCM 800 would be perfect. But every Marshall Ive played (but one) has let me down.. middy and not near as much gain as I assumed. The one I bought from you is Killer cuz it has more low end and gain.
But, my Splawn is even closer to what is ideal for me.

Red Label,
I feel your pain.. I hope you can find the magic in it.. I wish I could know if one would work for me or not..

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

So....... if the XTC is the amp of your dream, why did you get the Shiva first?

The Shiva was also a dream amp for me. The XTC was the dream amp I dared not dream of because it generally runs a grand+ more in price. I'm a guy with a family to support, so such luxuries don't come often. When I sold my car in April, I decided to go ahead and get a Shiva, but just couldn't justify the XTC at the time.

Then, several weeks ago I'd be watching the auction (that I won) and it was going SO cheap ($2150) that I though "what the heck" and just threw up a max bid of $2200, thinking there'd be NO way I'd win it. When I woke up the next morning, I found-out I was the winning bidder. Actually, a guy had outbid me, but then retracted his bid. So I won it and had to break the news to my patient and understanding wife. So we pulled money out of savings and I told her I'd sell my Shiva to fund a big chunk of it (which I did).

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

*** UPDATE ***

Well... just like with the 11R, I went into the man cave tonight with little hope I'd bond with the XTC and came-out having done so. Just like with the Shiva, I discovered that if I back-up on the gains a bit (1:00 on the Blue channel, and 2:00 on Red), and then run my Fulltone OCD in front to just add some "edgy hair" that retains clarity and presence (OCD gain at 8:00 and volume just short of max) that pleases my ears most . It seems like if I just skip the OCD and run the gains on the Bogner higher, it seems more mushy to me and more dull-sounding. This same thing happened with the Shiva. I ran the gain at noon and ran the OCD a little hotter (gain at 9:00, volume at max).

So I guess that my ears prefer Bogners at something less than max gain, and a good OD hitting the front-end to add the edge. Before the OCD, I had a modded TS9. I prefer the Fulltone, but the TS9 was good too. Will be curious to see what I can do with the Carl Martin Plexitone next week. Certainly more options there for different levels of gain.

Anyways... so it appears that at least for now, the XTC is gonna stay. I was getting some very nice crunch tones, as well as more saturated lead tones tonight. The cleans were great as always. She's finally growing on me I think. In fact, I think I'm gonna order some colored chickenhead knobs for it, as the black knobs just don't give much contrast against that chrome background. I'm leaning heavily towards the red knobs. That color seems to be the best-looking of what I've found. But I also considered gold, orange, purple, blue, green, and brown. There are several other colors, but they didn't offer any addition contrast. That chrome panel is hard to make-out. The black-paneled 101B with white knobs and lettering is much easier to see and read. The chrome looks cool, but is VERY hard to read. But hey, if that's the worst of my issues with the amp now -- I've made some progress!

BTW... thanks a bunch for all of the input, ideas, and opinions guys. I really do appreciate you taking the time to respond. Ultimately, we each have to work things out for ourselves because we all hear and see things differently. But the community support group is always nice to have to bounce ideas off of and try to keep each other from doing things rashly.

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

Actually...I'm pretty sure you posted it in The Trading Post. That's what I meant with my first post. It didn't really read like a sale thread.

Perhaps you're right. I had been flipping around to different areas here, and a few other sites and probably got confused.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

Yeah, the controls on the XTC are similar to a mixing board. Noon is the natural sound. As a matter of fact, you could set all the controls to noon, except for the volumes, and have a perfect starting point.

Also, I can play shred and metal, but that's not really what I do....more of a Marc Ford/Bonamassa type player, so I dial the amp to sound like a Twin/Plexi/modded Marshall rhythm sound, then use the boost, Klon, or Fuzz's to get maximum gain. I only utilize the XTC's full gain capacity when running it low volume for practicing.

But mostly, the gain on the blue and red channel sound best around 1:00.

No matter what, play your buddy's 101B and see if it's more suiting to you. If so, it shouldn't be hard to find a straight trade on one. The Classic is VERY expensive new, and thus easier to unload.