Re: Kemper - what's the point?
Line 6 has been doing that since like the Bush administration, if not longer
Line 6 has been doing that since like the Bush administration, if not longer
Kemper - what's the point?
- Thread starter Aceman
- Start date
Demanic
PenultimateTone Member
NegativeEase
New member
Re: Kemper - what's the point?
yes, true -but in fairness, those 90s and 00s Line 6 Modeling Tube amps are terrible.
yes, true -but in fairness, those 90s and 00s Line 6 Modeling Tube amps are terrible.
Lake Placid Blues
New member
Re: Kemper - what's the point?
The Marshall JMD:1 is a modelling amp with a tube power amp. It is not terrible. It doesn't do IRs by definition since the speakers and cab and the interaction with the output transformer are whatever cab you plug it into. However, it does have an emulated line out of a 1960A 4x12 cab that you can go directly into a PA with.
The Marshall JMD:1 is a modelling amp with a tube power amp. It is not terrible. It doesn't do IRs by definition since the speakers and cab and the interaction with the output transformer are whatever cab you plug it into. However, it does have an emulated line out of a 1960A 4x12 cab that you can go directly into a PA with.
NecroPolo
New member
Re: Kemper - what's the point?
I'm a simple guy as a player. I need only one functional sound per band and also I don't support the idea to spend money on gear that contain things I don't actually need so I use single modelling preamp pedals. They do that one thing perfectly I think.
As a recording producer, I see different. I completely accept the functionality of Kemper, AxeFX and the like. I've seen some weird enough stuff in the studio with modellers during reamping, like a Line6 HDproX beating a real masterfully mic'd (it was not me but someone who is more skilled than me) Recto in A/B test, a single AMT pedal delivering the best Marshall sound among 3 other good Marshalls, bands deciding to return to their AxeFX line sounds in the mix after reamping with otherwise great organic sounding real stuff or a SansAmp RBI alone creating an instant mixable bass sound with no need of any amp. These all grew into functionality during the last decade. More practical, more flexible, much more options.
Think of them as swiss army tools. It is not a real knife but it is absolutely capable of killing if used so. Maybe, a couple of dosens of other creative ways than a single knife like using the fork or the corkscrew.
I'm a simple guy as a player. I need only one functional sound per band and also I don't support the idea to spend money on gear that contain things I don't actually need so I use single modelling preamp pedals. They do that one thing perfectly I think.
As a recording producer, I see different. I completely accept the functionality of Kemper, AxeFX and the like. I've seen some weird enough stuff in the studio with modellers during reamping, like a Line6 HDproX beating a real masterfully mic'd (it was not me but someone who is more skilled than me) Recto in A/B test, a single AMT pedal delivering the best Marshall sound among 3 other good Marshalls, bands deciding to return to their AxeFX line sounds in the mix after reamping with otherwise great organic sounding real stuff or a SansAmp RBI alone creating an instant mixable bass sound with no need of any amp. These all grew into functionality during the last decade. More practical, more flexible, much more options.
Think of them as swiss army tools. It is not a real knife but it is absolutely capable of killing if used so. Maybe, a couple of dosens of other creative ways than a single knife like using the fork or the corkscrew.
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Re: Kemper - what's the point?
Well, how can a amp in a room tend to feel the same & sound the same on a recording as it does when you are actually playing one compared to listening at the playback of your recording of the same amp? I can't feel the guitar on any particular audio track behave like a live amp i'm playing through right in front of me. A live amp in front of me responds differently on daily basis for me atleast with differwnt tones I dial it in for.
With higher end modelling/profiling gear you get more options, converters, hardware, support, etc that are useful to those that have been using these over the past decade & need the extras for performances or recordings. The old Pod is good, no dout has been used on countless records in the 90s but limited compared to these functionwise, tonewise everyone will have splitting opinions.
Ace if ya tired of carrying around gear to the gigs then going digital may be for you, if not then skip it & continue playing. If ya recording then thats a different thing & depends on what kind of sounds your recording on average that you need something like this to help ya ease your workflow.
Well, how can a amp in a room tend to feel the same & sound the same on a recording as it does when you are actually playing one compared to listening at the playback of your recording of the same amp? I can't feel the guitar on any particular audio track behave like a live amp i'm playing through right in front of me. A live amp in front of me responds differently on daily basis for me atleast with differwnt tones I dial it in for.
With higher end modelling/profiling gear you get more options, converters, hardware, support, etc that are useful to those that have been using these over the past decade & need the extras for performances or recordings. The old Pod is good, no dout has been used on countless records in the 90s but limited compared to these functionwise, tonewise everyone will have splitting opinions.
Ace if ya tired of carrying around gear to the gigs then going digital may be for you, if not then skip it & continue playing. If ya recording then thats a different thing & depends on what kind of sounds your recording on average that you need something like this to help ya ease your workflow.
ErikH
Well-known member
Re: Kemper - what's the point?
The Kemper profiler is a great product. Being able to create a profile from a favorite amp that you may not want to take on the road is a great thing these days. Even if it's 95% there, that's more than good enough in a band setting and for many playing at home. Mark Kendall of Great White used one on the last GW album. Sounds killer to me.
A buddy of mine has a AxeFX II. He runs it to a Seymour Duncan PowerStage 170 amp and then to an Orange 1x12 for stage reference. There's also a direct feed to the FOH from the AxeFX II. It's a great lightweight setup and sounds really really good.
My last 2 amps have been modelers. A Vox AD50VT and now a Vox AV30. The latter is described as an analog tube amp with different amp voicings. It is analog for sure with two 12AX7's (one in the preamp and one in the poweramp) but I don't think they are run at full voltage. The amp "models" are really good and an improvement from the AD series, IMO. I was very surprised at how well this little 30 watt amp with a 1x10" keeps up with a really hard hitting drummer, with room to spare. It's not even close to full volume. It's a great, lightweight, little amp. While I do like modelers, simple is better for me. The AV30 captures that in spades. A WYSIWYG interface, 2 channels, 3 digital effects that sound great (chorus, delay, reverb), effects loop, footswitch with either 2 or 5-button (2-button switches channels and effects bank on or off. 5-button switches channels, each effect on/off and a tap tempo for the delay). There's also some switch settings on the pre and power (like bright and fat, BIAS and reactor). There's noticeable changes in the sound with those switches. It's everything I need in a small footprint. Vox has made great modelers over the years.
Would I like to use a full tube amp again? Sure. Is it practical for me? Not really. Definitely not practical at home.
The Kemper profiler is a great product. Being able to create a profile from a favorite amp that you may not want to take on the road is a great thing these days. Even if it's 95% there, that's more than good enough in a band setting and for many playing at home. Mark Kendall of Great White used one on the last GW album. Sounds killer to me.
A buddy of mine has a AxeFX II. He runs it to a Seymour Duncan PowerStage 170 amp and then to an Orange 1x12 for stage reference. There's also a direct feed to the FOH from the AxeFX II. It's a great lightweight setup and sounds really really good.
My last 2 amps have been modelers. A Vox AD50VT and now a Vox AV30. The latter is described as an analog tube amp with different amp voicings. It is analog for sure with two 12AX7's (one in the preamp and one in the poweramp) but I don't think they are run at full voltage. The amp "models" are really good and an improvement from the AD series, IMO. I was very surprised at how well this little 30 watt amp with a 1x10" keeps up with a really hard hitting drummer, with room to spare. It's not even close to full volume. It's a great, lightweight, little amp. While I do like modelers, simple is better for me. The AV30 captures that in spades. A WYSIWYG interface, 2 channels, 3 digital effects that sound great (chorus, delay, reverb), effects loop, footswitch with either 2 or 5-button (2-button switches channels and effects bank on or off. 5-button switches channels, each effect on/off and a tap tempo for the delay). There's also some switch settings on the pre and power (like bright and fat, BIAS and reactor). There's noticeable changes in the sound with those switches. It's everything I need in a small footprint. Vox has made great modelers over the years.
Would I like to use a full tube amp again? Sure. Is it practical for me? Not really. Definitely not practical at home.
Aceman
I am your doctor of love!
Re: Kemper - what's the point?
I call BS on this opinion. I bet that in any blind test in a musical context you couldn't tell a Kemper from a real amp from an RP250 programmed right.
You were listening to a vid that said 'Here is Twin' and 'Here is Kemper'
I call BS on this opinion. I bet that in any blind test in a musical context you couldn't tell a Kemper from a real amp from an RP250 programmed right.
You were listening to a vid that said 'Here is Twin' and 'Here is Kemper'
Aceman
I am your doctor of love!
Re: Kemper - what's the point?
Oh it definitely isn't for me. I'm just thinking it is in the way over-rated category. Like I said - I have heard half a dozen of them used live. Meh beyond recognition.
Oh it definitely isn't for me. I'm just thinking it is in the way over-rated category. Like I said - I have heard half a dozen of them used live. Meh beyond recognition.
Aceman
I am your doctor of love!
Re: Kemper - what's the point?
Again - you are acting like an Epiphany can't sound better than an R9.
Again - you are acting like an Epiphany can't sound better than an R9.
JB_From_Hell
Jomo's Nimions
Re: Kemper - what's the point?
Depending on who is using the Kemper/R9 and POD/Epiphone, sure. However, are you really gonna dispute that setup as best as possible for each, and in the hands of a highly talented person, the R9 is probably gonna sound better?
Ok, if I said “A Kemper let’s you take a digital snapshot of any rig,” would that make more sense?
Can’t help but wonder if you’re trolling a little.
Depending on who is using the Kemper/R9 and POD/Epiphone, sure. However, are you really gonna dispute that setup as best as possible for each, and in the hands of a highly talented person, the R9 is probably gonna sound better?
Ok, if I said “A Kemper let’s you take a digital snapshot of any rig,” would that make more sense?
Can’t help but wonder if you’re trolling a little.
Aceman
I am your doctor of love!
Re: Kemper - what's the point?
I absolutely get the appeal of something like a Kemper. Yeah - ton of amps, ton of cabs, all mix and matchable. Cool stuff. Ability to have 50 amps and a wall of cabs at your finger tips - especially in a studio, wow. As a "creative" tool, again just like three different guitars get three different songs out of you. Yep. Very cool. To be able (especially in a super variety wide-range cover band) to go from Disco to Rock to Punk to Funk and Snap, Crackle, or Pop at step - awesome. But again....nothing new about this.
But two of the most interesting opinions here:
#1 That it still isn't "quite" a tube amp. I do not get how people sit around and debate that fact all the while ignoring that even two tube amps could sound better/worse if not biased right! Never answers the question "Does it sound good?" to which the answer is apparently a resounding "Yes!" It's like you have lost all sense of perspective down to some tonal nuance that is only noticed by you, and only because you are obsessively focussed on it.
#2. Whoever brought this up; From Guitar Player Magazine a decade ago or more: "The Line 6 Axsys II made us go where is Fender Twin?" or something like that. Yet people still discussing this with the latest Uber-Box dujour.
Where is the focus on the MUSIC? Where is the focus on the SONG? Where is the focus on the SOUND? Gone I say - it is all about the box to no end.
I absolutely get the appeal of something like a Kemper. Yeah - ton of amps, ton of cabs, all mix and matchable. Cool stuff. Ability to have 50 amps and a wall of cabs at your finger tips - especially in a studio, wow. As a "creative" tool, again just like three different guitars get three different songs out of you. Yep. Very cool. To be able (especially in a super variety wide-range cover band) to go from Disco to Rock to Punk to Funk and Snap, Crackle, or Pop at step - awesome. But again....nothing new about this.
But two of the most interesting opinions here:
#1 That it still isn't "quite" a tube amp. I do not get how people sit around and debate that fact all the while ignoring that even two tube amps could sound better/worse if not biased right! Never answers the question "Does it sound good?" to which the answer is apparently a resounding "Yes!" It's like you have lost all sense of perspective down to some tonal nuance that is only noticed by you, and only because you are obsessively focussed on it.
#2. Whoever brought this up; From Guitar Player Magazine a decade ago or more: "The Line 6 Axsys II made us go where is Fender Twin?" or something like that. Yet people still discussing this with the latest Uber-Box dujour.
Where is the focus on the MUSIC? Where is the focus on the SONG? Where is the focus on the SOUND? Gone I say - it is all about the box to no end.
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Re: Kemper - what's the point?
In the end, I don't care what others use, though. I'll try anything if it gets the sound that is in my head (and I have a lot of sounds in there). I'll listen to anyone that has something interesting/different to say, too, no matter how they get their sound. I've used all kinds of rigs in the past, and continue to chase what I like at the moment.
The last TV appearance was guitar-805-Tech 21 Trademark 10 ( 10 watts of analog modeling!) direct to the producer's mixer on set. Sounded amazing.
In the end, I don't care what others use, though. I'll try anything if it gets the sound that is in my head (and I have a lot of sounds in there). I'll listen to anyone that has something interesting/different to say, too, no matter how they get their sound. I've used all kinds of rigs in the past, and continue to chase what I like at the moment.
The last TV appearance was guitar-805-Tech 21 Trademark 10 ( 10 watts of analog modeling!) direct to the producer's mixer on set. Sounded amazing.
JB_From_Hell
Jomo's Nimions
Re: Kemper - what's the point?
Go start a thread about music and songs. I bet that’s what gets focused on.
Anyone who is twiddling knobs on a modeler rather than writing a song wouldn’t be writing a song anyway. The people who are writing songs will be doing so whether they’re plugged into a Kemper or a Pignose.
Go start a thread about music and songs. I bet that’s what gets focused on.
Anyone who is twiddling knobs on a modeler rather than writing a song wouldn’t be writing a song anyway. The people who are writing songs will be doing so whether they’re plugged into a Kemper or a Pignose.
Phantasmagoria
watch where you point that sabre
Re: Kemper - what's the point?
Yep two tube amps could sound better/worse or w/e..but they will sound & feel like tube amps. A ****ty sounding tube amp will often be called out for sounding "solid state" (ie, lacking 'tube feel". You may not be able to put your finger on the difference, but it's very much there...ie, something's "off" about it which is described as being "hi-fi" or "solid state" sounding).
The point being there's a benchmark "tube feel" one gets when playing a nice tube amp & I found that lacking/different when I played the Axe FX. The AMT (analog) stuff on the other hand pretty much nails it. To that extent there's more to be done as far as their (Axe-Fx's) modelling algorithms or w/e go, since these unit's are supposed to model "tube amp's" (which is their biggest selling point) & I don't think they have it right. at least not yet.
I'm not talking good/bad..I'm talking accurate/inaccurate...
..something's "off".
Yep two tube amps could sound better/worse or w/e..but they will sound & feel like tube amps. A ****ty sounding tube amp will often be called out for sounding "solid state" (ie, lacking 'tube feel". You may not be able to put your finger on the difference, but it's very much there...ie, something's "off" about it which is described as being "hi-fi" or "solid state" sounding).
The point being there's a benchmark "tube feel" one gets when playing a nice tube amp & I found that lacking/different when I played the Axe FX. The AMT (analog) stuff on the other hand pretty much nails it. To that extent there's more to be done as far as their (Axe-Fx's) modelling algorithms or w/e go, since these unit's are supposed to model "tube amp's" (which is their biggest selling point) & I don't think they have it right. at least not yet.
I'm not talking good/bad..I'm talking accurate/inaccurate...
..something's "off".
JB_From_Hell
Jomo's Nimions
Re: Kemper - what's the point?
I've been plugging my POD XT Live into my Super Reverb. Despite all the people who assure me that plugging a modeler into a guitar amp will result in catastrophe, it sounds pretty incredible.
I've been plugging my POD XT Live into my Super Reverb. Despite all the people who assure me that plugging a modeler into a guitar amp will result in catastrophe, it sounds pretty incredible.
GuitarStv
Sock Market Trader
Re: Kemper - what's the point?
Not sure I agree.
I have a habit of focusing on what happens to be at hand. If my guitar setup is too complicated I'll end up twiddling knobs rather than writing songs . . . because something in my brain tells me 'you can make that sound a little bit better'. And twiddling knobs is easier than writing stuff. If I've got a simpler setup where I know intimately what each part does, I'll very rarely spend more than a second or two touching knobs.
That's why infinitely variable designs kinda turn me off. You can never know them inside and out because there's always something new to play with on them. You never really get to that 'know them intimately inside and out' part that I need to be at to really get the creativity flowing.
Not sure I agree.
I have a habit of focusing on what happens to be at hand. If my guitar setup is too complicated I'll end up twiddling knobs rather than writing songs . . . because something in my brain tells me 'you can make that sound a little bit better'. And twiddling knobs is easier than writing stuff. If I've got a simpler setup where I know intimately what each part does, I'll very rarely spend more than a second or two touching knobs.
That's why infinitely variable designs kinda turn me off. You can never know them inside and out because there's always something new to play with on them. You never really get to that 'know them intimately inside and out' part that I need to be at to really get the creativity flowing.
LLL
New member
Re: Kemper - what's the point?
The best guitarists in the world have usually been "knob tweakers" along with "song writers".
They tried to master all aspects... playing and tone.
Edward, SRV, EJ, Gibbons... just to name a few.
Tone is part of your voice as a guitarist, and great tone inspires.
Serious guitarists learn all the facets of guitar playing.
The best guitarists in the world have usually been "knob tweakers" along with "song writers".
They tried to master all aspects... playing and tone.
Edward, SRV, EJ, Gibbons... just to name a few.
Tone is part of your voice as a guitarist, and great tone inspires.
Serious guitarists learn all the facets of guitar playing.
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