Kiesel is dropping the Iconic traditioal DC Super strat!

[Gtrjunior]

Is it, though?



If you're going that high, then you are also counting the years when it was a 24.75" set-neck, a body shape that was re-designed after that, and a smaller forearm bevel than it's had since ~2013/2014. You're counting years when the available electronics (not just the pickups) were different. You're including bridges that haven't been available for years. One could argue that your 2017 DC127 is further away from the original DC's than it is from a 2021 DC600.



Hear me out...

Let's say you have an Italian restaurant near you. Let's say the restaurant has been around for 75 years, and over the last year added arancini, 2 new lasagnas, an asparagus risotto, revamped their tiramisu recipe to allow them to make more at a time to keep the price low and not run out, and added a arabiata sauce and a new kale pesto sauce. Every year they add half a dozen new menu entrees, and at the end of every year they look at the items that nobody buys anymore. When they look at the numbers, they see it's basically just 4 guys that have been ordering the Turkey Scaloppini with Marsala Sauce. Maybe they've been ordering it since it was put on the menu 35 years ago when it was a popular item for 25 years, and maybe one of them has even ordered it as recently as a month ago.

The new head chef's been running the restaurant for 5 years, and the restaurant was re-named so that it no longer represented the old owners who wanted to close it 20 years ago. The new chef has a more modern palette, and the restaurant is more popular than ever. After reviewing the numbers, they decide they just don't want to offer this Turkey Scallopini anymore. Doing so opens up space on the menu for something that sells better. They may even still have all of the ingredients on-hand and are all used in other dishes...but in the end, they stop offering the Turkey Scaloppini.

With that context...explain how is that decision a "massively huge blunder"? It is going to make those 4 guys disappointed? Sure. No company could ever get rid of anything if that's the barrier. Is the fact that the menu will no longer have Turkey Scaloppini going to turn away people who were going to get the tortellini or the new risotto anyway?



Yes, and? They want to make what they like, and/or what will sell. Carvin's/Kiesel's been trying to separate themselves from the "established" companies for decades. To me, a part of that has been releasing new models with new features (the HF2, the CT, etc) and that also included discontinuing models when they didn't sell (the BC130, LS175, V440, the SH60...heck, the Ultra V and V220 have both already been discontinued once before and brought back...the X220, too, and then it was discontinued again.



That's awesome. A follow-up question...by discontinuing the model, that doesn't take any of that away, right?



The DC6 has been discontinued for years. This was a DC6:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4a/95...099.jpg​



If by DC you just mean "double cut", then yes it is, but it's not a part of the DC127 line. It USED to be. In the 80s and maybe the early 90s, that body shape was the "ST" body shape option for the DC line, and I think was the standard on the DC145 for a while, but I might have that wrong. Then in the 2000s, they released the JB200C and the ST300. Both were based on that body and almost identical to it. Later, they discontinued the ST300, but kept the JB200C.



True. They seem to give the signature artists control over what is and isn't available on their models, at least while retaining the 10-day trial. Kiesel will still build you a green "bluey", but it wouldn't have the 10-day. The new Dustin Davidson signature bass, he only wants the walnut body and poplar top on his signature model, so no other options are on the builder, but I believe you are able to get more if you call. Andy James has said "NO PINK!" so I'm pretty sure you can't get his signature model in pink. The new FG2 is only available in that special yellow.

I think I meant DC600.
Admittedly, I’m not nearly as familiar with the Kiesel lineup as you are.
I just really like that I can completely customize a guitar and the DC600 is the one I would have had made for me.

As far as the Jason Becker model....I wasn’t sure if that model was a tweaked to Jason’s specs DC600 or if was something different.

 

[Ascension]

No more 25 scale on a neck through super strat now 25.5 only with the exception of the Jason Becker.The body on my KOA 1993 DC 127 is identical to the body on my Purple quilt 2014 and would be identical to a 2021 if ordered without the rounded sides. The Classic DC super strat body goes back to the set neck 1983 at least ( that's the oldest one I have owned) with few body changes if not farther. Jeff Kiesel since he came in has systematically eliminated the old Carvin designs and that's a fact. It's his company now so that's par for the course I guess. The classic Carvin and now Kiesel DC is the single most recognizable guitar for the brand they have ever done in their history. But it goes much deeper than one line its the change in the entire vibe and direction of the company over the last 15 or so years. Lot of folks have been supporting this company and playing these guitars for decades for reasons that now seem unimportant to the new Kiese or at least Jeffl. Kinda mirrors the rest of the cancel culture destroy all history super arrogant BS from this current generation in today's society I guess.

 

[Masta' C]

Lot of folks have been supporting this company and playing these guitars for decades for reasons that now seem unimportant to the new Kiese or at least Jeffl. Kinda mirrors the rest of the cancel culture destroy all history super arrogant BS from this current generation in today's society I guess.

:smack:

 

[Ascension]

I think I meant DC600.
Admittedly, I’m not nearly as familiar with the Kiesel lineup as you are.
I just really like that I can completely customize a guitar and the DC600 is the one I would have had made for me.

As far as the Jason Becker model....I wasn’t sure if that model was a tweaked to Jason’s specs DC600 or if was something different.

The Becker is a tribute to his maple board 1988 ST body Sapphire flame DC 200 which was a 24.75 scale guitar with a Kahler Pro. I played a Sapphire Flame 89 DC 200 with a Ebony board and Floyd on the road for many years. Sold it about 5 or so years ago simply because I couldnt play it anymore on a strap as it weighed just under 12 LBs and was killing my back.

 

[Obsessive Compulsive]

OP you seem to be super, super deeply emotionally invested in the company. It's just business, Kiesel is doing what he thinks he has to do for the company's future.

At the end of the day it's just wood and wires. Move the f on. It's been 30 years since you first played Carvin. Nothing that it does any Asian knockoff cannot do.

 

[Mincer]

OP you seem to be super, super deeply emotionally invested in the company. It's just business, Kiesel is doing what he thinks he has to do for the company's future.

At the end of the day it's just wood and wires. Move the f on. It's been 30 years since you first played Carvin. Nothing that it does any Asian knockoff cannot do.

Actually, there is at least 1 other person in this thread defending them, Maybe they work for Kiesel? If they do, that's cool, we welcome all here. But they should identify if they do.

 

[dave74]

I'm still curious about what is going on with the body dimensions of dc600 vs aries neck-thru.

I'm guessing the body specs on the dc600 page are not current because they are larger than that of the aries, and to my eyes the current dc600 and aries are the same size.
Maybe the dc600 is not the same body size as the Aries, but if it is they need to get the specs changed on the page. 2018 until now is a long time to not update the page, not to mention the picture of the dc600 on the "guitars" page is not current either. It shows the old body dc600. That is exactly the kind of sloppiness that leads to confusion on orders.

 

[Cynical]

Actually, there is at least 1 other person in this thread defending them, Maybe they work for Kiesel? If they do, that's cool, we welcome all here. But they should identify if they do.

If NecroJoe is who I think he is, he's a regular poster on the Kiesel forums and certainly a fan of the brand, but not an employee.

(I've also done some defending in this thread, and I can say with certainty that I'm not a Kiesel employee.)

 

[Mincer]

That's cool. Like I said, I don't mind employees of other companies here, but we like them to identify themselves if clearing up questions about the brand.

 

[Obsessive Compulsive]

Actually, there is at least 1 other person in this thread defending them, Maybe they work for Kiesel? If they do, that's cool, we welcome all here. But they should identify if they do.

I am not defending Kiesel and not an employee. I think he's overreacting. It's not that his freakin' grandmother founded the company or he sits on the board as a major shareholder.

 

[Mincer]

Again, that's cool. Carvins, and now Kiesels aren't for everyone. They have some pretty intense fans, and people either really like Jeff or can't stand him, so the company gets some pretty passionate reactions.

 

[Ascension]

OP you seem to be super, super deeply emotionally invested in the company. It's just business, Kiesel is doing what he thinks he has to do for the company's future.
.

Some merit to that as still have long term relationships with many from the old Carvinite Southeastern bashes. These events were where many of us from several States would get together hang out over a weekend to jam check out each others stuff break bread ect. Had the same sales rep for many years and we were friends. For many of us it was more than just a normal company. Was in the middle of the religion wars where all the Praise and Worship and other Christian artist suddenly got the left foot of fellowship on the forum when forum leadership changed. So there is a lot of history over the 40 or so years I have been around the company. Things like mid 90's hanging out with Mike Amos and Neil Zaza me playing his neck through Spiderman graphic Hamer Californian and Neil checking out my 89 Sapphire Flame DC 200 in a buddies shop. Lot of history here.

 

[dave74]

Just to summarize my own stance; ( and btw I own and have ever only owned 2, a dc125 and st300, both with black Carvin logo and custom ordered by me 2012-2014 right around the change)

1. Good or possibly needed move on their part to cut the dc127? Probably is. Efficiency is key to keeping base prices low enough to compete in today's market.

2. Do I like that they are ditching the dc127? No!!!, because it looks awesome with the fully rounded edges and is somewhat unique these days in terms of the combination of 25", neck-thru, OFR, and rounded body option.


edit;
If or when in the future I do order another , it would be the new dc600 with that added small contoured bevel. Now that looks perfect. I'm fine with 25.5".
The only thing I don't like about the current dc600 is the direct-mount pickups. They do look great, and I do know how to install different models and make them adjustable through the right height area(sweet spot),,,,,,,,,,,but I still find ring-mount to be my preference, ugly or not I don't care.

 

[Top-L]

If anyone complains, their reply will be "OK Boomer". And it will get hundreds of likes. And then Kiesel will post a pic of himself flexing.

Thats how its done now. Best to just not say anything and find another brand.

I remember the late 80s. Carvins (good or bad) were the weird knock off mail order guitars. There is no past to romanticize here.

 

[Mincer]

I will say that their 80s solid walnut bodies were among the heaviest guitars I've ever played. And as a kid I wanted a V220. Until I played one.

 

[Top-L]

I will say that their 80s solid walnut bodies were among the heaviest guitars I've ever played. And as a kid I wanted a V220. Until I played one.

I was young when guitar magazines were still a thing. I didn't know jack shit.

I remember seeing the Carvin ads and thinking those were the kinds of guitars you would see in wedding bands, or that if you wanted to rock one you had to have a degree from Berklee. I never understood the double pole pickups. No one claimed to like them, why didn't they put "normal" pickups in there?

Then Vai started endorsing their stuff so they gained some "credibility" in my eyes. But I wasn't a huge Vai fan. And it smelled like a cash grab. (Couldn't he get more money from Marshall?)

Back then, people used to go to music stores and try out guitars so the whole mail order thing was 30+ years ahead of its time. Why would you buy something in the mail if you could plunk down the cash at a LMS?

That was my perception of them.

 

[ehdwuld]

I'm bummed they stopped offering Piezo pickups on the builder
but I would think that its still an option if I have the money to pay for it

 

[Cynical]

I never understood the double pole pickups. No one claimed to like them, why didn't they put "normal" pickups in there?

Frank Zappa is nobody? He replaced the pups in his Les Pauls with Carvin M22s.

I absolutely *love* the M22SD; it might be my favorite bridge pickup ever. It's almost like a hotter, slightly less dry Pegasus, or almost like what would happen if a Pegasus and an Invader had kids. Really tight on the attack, and nicely articulate, but it still has the beef and enough output to make any amp saturate nicely.

 

[Top-L]

Frank Zappa is nobody? He replaced the pups in his Les Pauls with Carvin M22s.

I absolutely *love* the M22SD; it might be my favorite bridge pickup ever. It's almost like a hotter, slightly less dry Pegasus, or almost like what would happen if a Pegasus and an Invader had kids. Really tight on the attack, and nicely articulate, but it still has the beef and enough output to make any amp saturate nicely.

I'm just telling you what a 16 year old thought when he saw them in pictures. I don't think I ever saw one in person ... until maybe late 90s in GC used section?

 

[Mincer]

Other than testing the guitars, I can't form an opinion on Kiesel or Carvin pickups in a guitar I know well. I know Allan Holdsworth sounded great with his signature pickups, but I don't think pickups are a huge part of his sound.