Latest pedal board incarnation...
- Thread starter wahwah
- Start date
wahwah
GumbyLoveologist
Re: Latest pedal board incarnation...
The Super Champ had a Celestion G10S-50 in it when I bought it, obviously put in by the previous owner. I have put in late 1950's RCA blackplate 6V6's, a late 50's RCA blackplate 12AX7, and a late 50's RCA blackplate 12AT7. The oddball 6C10 tube is a mid 60's RCA. My amp tech (Dave Ulbrick) went through it very thoroughly (as he does) and optimized the circuit by returning some things to original spec, and making improvements where necessary. He told me what he did, but he may as well have been speaking Swahili to me at the time, because I am a technical dunce.
The end result is an amp that has an extraordinary tone and balance. The amp in its original state would never have seen tubes like those old blackplate RCA's, in fact not many amps since the early tweeds and the very first blackfaces have seen tubes like those, except for those who have gone out of their way to find them.
I generally run the channel volume around 8, and the master between 4 and 5, depending on the size and liveness of the stage. So both the preamp stage and the power stage are working, getting the juice out of those beautiful old RCA's. There is minimal speaker breakup, because of the overqualified G10S-50. Being a 10", it has a beautiful short range bass throw, just far enough to kick a 57 in the nuts, and reach me at close quarters on the stage, but not enough to flab out at any point.
As a result, it provides an excellent platform for quality pedals. I would put it in the vicinity of an early blackface Deluxe Reverb, and I know for a fact that it will easily reduce a reissue DR to the status of boat anchor. It looks ridiculous on a large stage, and provides a great laugh for road crews, up until the point where the FOH guy runs it up through the PA.
We did a national tour supporting Joe Cocker back in 2003, and at the soundcheck for the last gig, Cocker's FOH guy came up on stage and just kept circling the Super Champ, scratching his head. Joe's guitar player had a Bogner and a Marshall, and a pair of 4 x 12's. At the end of our soundcheck, he said "What the hell have you got in that thing? I can't get a sound out front like what you're getting out of that little amp...and I have to deal with all of THAT (pointing at Joe's guitarist's rig)"
So yeah, you can definitely hear the benefits of better quality pedals through that amp.
Cheers..............................wahwah
The Super Champ had a Celestion G10S-50 in it when I bought it, obviously put in by the previous owner. I have put in late 1950's RCA blackplate 6V6's, a late 50's RCA blackplate 12AX7, and a late 50's RCA blackplate 12AT7. The oddball 6C10 tube is a mid 60's RCA. My amp tech (Dave Ulbrick) went through it very thoroughly (as he does) and optimized the circuit by returning some things to original spec, and making improvements where necessary. He told me what he did, but he may as well have been speaking Swahili to me at the time, because I am a technical dunce.
The end result is an amp that has an extraordinary tone and balance. The amp in its original state would never have seen tubes like those old blackplate RCA's, in fact not many amps since the early tweeds and the very first blackfaces have seen tubes like those, except for those who have gone out of their way to find them.
I generally run the channel volume around 8, and the master between 4 and 5, depending on the size and liveness of the stage. So both the preamp stage and the power stage are working, getting the juice out of those beautiful old RCA's. There is minimal speaker breakup, because of the overqualified G10S-50. Being a 10", it has a beautiful short range bass throw, just far enough to kick a 57 in the nuts, and reach me at close quarters on the stage, but not enough to flab out at any point.
As a result, it provides an excellent platform for quality pedals. I would put it in the vicinity of an early blackface Deluxe Reverb, and I know for a fact that it will easily reduce a reissue DR to the status of boat anchor. It looks ridiculous on a large stage, and provides a great laugh for road crews, up until the point where the FOH guy runs it up through the PA.
We did a national tour supporting Joe Cocker back in 2003, and at the soundcheck for the last gig, Cocker's FOH guy came up on stage and just kept circling the Super Champ, scratching his head. Joe's guitar player had a Bogner and a Marshall, and a pair of 4 x 12's. At the end of our soundcheck, he said "What the hell have you got in that thing? I can't get a sound out front like what you're getting out of that little amp...and I have to deal with all of THAT (pointing at Joe's guitarist's rig)"
So yeah, you can definitely hear the benefits of better quality pedals through that amp.
Cheers..............................wahwah
Last edited:
Re: Latest pedal board incarnation...
that's cool.... i just saw a listing on a Toronto used stores site www.songbirdmusic.com that they have a 1982 Super Champ in for almost $900.... that's crazy bucks for that amp in my mind...
i too also like using speakers with a higher wattage rating... my C 50 head thru my Marshall 150 watt 1x12 combo is perfect for clean and using pedals... almost no speaker break up!!!! and it can handle lots of lows from some of the nicer pedals EQ's!
i used to take heat from soundmen using stadium gear like my 5150 stack in clubs... once i switched to some smaller gear it was easier for them to get a better sound out front.... some of the combo's and 1x12 extention cabs i use i now use tilt back amp stands so the speaker is facing my head... no issues hearing myself... and the amp stands have built in mic stands so it's a win win thing... i'm not blasting the people my 4x12 was pointed at...
but you would think on a bigger stage you could use a little more power.... not that you need too because it seems like the rig has served you extremely well... teardown at the end of a show must be real easy.... i guess in the end all you need is enough power to get a signal thru the mic to the PA.... i assume your pa monitors have some of your guitar in it?
that's cool.... i just saw a listing on a Toronto used stores site www.songbirdmusic.com that they have a 1982 Super Champ in for almost $900.... that's crazy bucks for that amp in my mind...
i too also like using speakers with a higher wattage rating... my C 50 head thru my Marshall 150 watt 1x12 combo is perfect for clean and using pedals... almost no speaker break up!!!! and it can handle lots of lows from some of the nicer pedals EQ's!
i used to take heat from soundmen using stadium gear like my 5150 stack in clubs... once i switched to some smaller gear it was easier for them to get a better sound out front.... some of the combo's and 1x12 extention cabs i use i now use tilt back amp stands so the speaker is facing my head... no issues hearing myself... and the amp stands have built in mic stands so it's a win win thing... i'm not blasting the people my 4x12 was pointed at...
but you would think on a bigger stage you could use a little more power.... not that you need too because it seems like the rig has served you extremely well... teardown at the end of a show must be real easy.... i guess in the end all you need is enough power to get a signal thru the mic to the PA.... i assume your pa monitors have some of your guitar in it?
Pink Unicorn Horsey
Megä Pöny Rÿdr
Re: Latest pedal board incarnation...
I got myself an early-80s Super Champ a few months ago, after listening to Geoff's clips and having numerous conversations with him about the amp. He's been helping me get the most out of it by way of NOS tubes and the like. I got mine for $800.
- Keith
I got myself an early-80s Super Champ a few months ago, after listening to Geoff's clips and having numerous conversations with him about the amp. He's been helping me get the most out of it by way of NOS tubes and the like. I got mine for $800.
- Keith
wahwah
GumbyLoveologist
Re: Latest pedal board incarnation...
Yeah, the prices are getting pretty crazy for them. I paid AU$450 for my first one in '94, and then half that again for my spare in 2003. A lot of recording studios have one tucked away. David Gilmour has been known to record with them. Mind you, that can be said about a LOT of amps!
Even on bigger stages, most FOH engineers I talk to claim that high powered amps and 4 x 12 cabs are the bane of their existence, partly because of the volume and partly because of the sheer ugliness of what happens to the signal once it travels past the stage. It might sound great at the guitar player's legs, but by the time the low end has dispersed and left only the focused beam of upper midrange, including an abundance of the infamous 2.5 kHz "pain range," it is a potential destroyer of mixes. If most guitar players could hear what their offstage spill actually sounds like, they would stop using that particular design from the 1960's. The double whammy comes when the engineer is getting so much of this crappy sound at the desk, that he can't even put the guitar in the mix, so all there is of the guitar sound is the weedy remnants of what is being thrown from the stage. In smaller rooms, it becomes absurd.
The trick for me is always keeping the amp close. That way, I actually get better separation the bigger the stage is. I have more of a problem hearing it on a small stage where I am forced to be closer to the drums and bass. It also helps that this is not a loud onstage band. They're all pro players, and they know what works. Except the drummer perhaps, he's still stuck in that mode where he equates his hitting velocity with his masculinity. Maybe he's latently gay. I must ask him. I might have a quiet word with his wife as well.
I can't stand the sound of a mic'd amp through monitors, so I avoid it completely. The drummer and vocalist like to have it in their sends (isn't that funny, the complete opposite of what normally happens!) so the guitar sound gets dispersed across the stage. I also like the vibe of hearing the guitar in the PA, it makes me feel like a Rock Star. That's when I put one foot up on the wedge and strike my best Nigel Tuffnel pose.
Most of my work is interstate, which means a lot of flying. This rig can go anywhere without breaking the baggage weight limit, and then slot right into the back of a Tarago. That way I can avoid using hire amps, and that's a good thing. There's nothing worse than turning up to find a later model silver face Twin with Altecs in it, or a recent model Marshall, or (insert any one of a thousand other amps here) as somebody's idea of what would make a suitable backline hire rig. This way, I know exactly what I'm taking everywhere with me. The end result is a thoroughly enjoyable onstage experience, a smacking tone in FOH, and a bunch of sound engineers who want to be my buddy, and tell me at the end of the gig how much they had the guitar cranked in the system. See, it IS all about me, after all!
Cheers................................wahwah
Yeah, the prices are getting pretty crazy for them. I paid AU$450 for my first one in '94, and then half that again for my spare in 2003. A lot of recording studios have one tucked away. David Gilmour has been known to record with them. Mind you, that can be said about a LOT of amps!
Even on bigger stages, most FOH engineers I talk to claim that high powered amps and 4 x 12 cabs are the bane of their existence, partly because of the volume and partly because of the sheer ugliness of what happens to the signal once it travels past the stage. It might sound great at the guitar player's legs, but by the time the low end has dispersed and left only the focused beam of upper midrange, including an abundance of the infamous 2.5 kHz "pain range," it is a potential destroyer of mixes. If most guitar players could hear what their offstage spill actually sounds like, they would stop using that particular design from the 1960's. The double whammy comes when the engineer is getting so much of this crappy sound at the desk, that he can't even put the guitar in the mix, so all there is of the guitar sound is the weedy remnants of what is being thrown from the stage. In smaller rooms, it becomes absurd.
The trick for me is always keeping the amp close. That way, I actually get better separation the bigger the stage is. I have more of a problem hearing it on a small stage where I am forced to be closer to the drums and bass. It also helps that this is not a loud onstage band. They're all pro players, and they know what works. Except the drummer perhaps, he's still stuck in that mode where he equates his hitting velocity with his masculinity. Maybe he's latently gay. I must ask him. I might have a quiet word with his wife as well.
I can't stand the sound of a mic'd amp through monitors, so I avoid it completely. The drummer and vocalist like to have it in their sends (isn't that funny, the complete opposite of what normally happens!) so the guitar sound gets dispersed across the stage. I also like the vibe of hearing the guitar in the PA, it makes me feel like a Rock Star. That's when I put one foot up on the wedge and strike my best Nigel Tuffnel pose.
Most of my work is interstate, which means a lot of flying. This rig can go anywhere without breaking the baggage weight limit, and then slot right into the back of a Tarago. That way I can avoid using hire amps, and that's a good thing. There's nothing worse than turning up to find a later model silver face Twin with Altecs in it, or a recent model Marshall, or (insert any one of a thousand other amps here) as somebody's idea of what would make a suitable backline hire rig. This way, I know exactly what I'm taking everywhere with me. The end result is a thoroughly enjoyable onstage experience, a smacking tone in FOH, and a bunch of sound engineers who want to be my buddy, and tell me at the end of the gig how much they had the guitar cranked in the system. See, it IS all about me, after all!
Cheers................................wahwah
Vasshu the humanoid typhoon
Unseen
Re: Latest pedal board incarnation...
And it is relaybased...also no impedance troubles...you can use a buffer in the input....but well...
If it pops I can lay back and say...not me!
Must be the pedals that is being switching in between...
We have tested it with various pedals and such, it got pretty silent in the end.....we tried quite a few relays....it says about as little as the Combinator most of the time now...
So that was good enough for us!
But if it pops....well try with more different pedals and see what happends
Niels
Well that is one of the effects of having troo moohpass
And it is relaybased...also no impedance troubles...you can use a buffer in the input....but well...
If it pops I can lay back and say...not me!
Must be the pedals that is being switching in between...
We have tested it with various pedals and such, it got pretty silent in the end.....we tried quite a few relays....it says about as little as the Combinator most of the time now...
So that was good enough for us!
But if it pops....well try with more different pedals and see what happends
Niels
wahwah
GumbyLoveologist
Re: Latest pedal board incarnation...
Thanks for that Niels. It's a cool design, just the right size for sitting in front of an existing pedal board. You and your buffers, you're a buffer lover. You'd put buffers on your buffers if you could. And then a couple more pedals that are just buffers. I don't mind a good buffer, as long as it doesn't sound like it's been refrigerated. But if it takes away the pops, then I say bring on the buffers! Now I just need to find the Australian distributor so I can check one out.
Cheers...........................wahwah
Well that is one of the effects of having troo moohpass
And it is relaybased...also no impedance troubles...you can use a buffer in the input....but well...
If it pops I can lay back and say...not me!
Must be the pedals that is being switching in between...
We have tested it with various pedals and such, it got pretty silent in the end.....we tried quite a few relays....it says about as little as the Combinator most of the time now...
So that was good enough for us!
But if it pops....well try with more different pedals and see what happends
Niels
Thanks for that Niels. It's a cool design, just the right size for sitting in front of an existing pedal board. You and your buffers, you're a buffer lover. You'd put buffers on your buffers if you could. And then a couple more pedals that are just buffers. I don't mind a good buffer, as long as it doesn't sound like it's been refrigerated. But if it takes away the pops, then I say bring on the buffers! Now I just need to find the Australian distributor so I can check one out.
Cheers...........................wahwah
Vasshu the humanoid typhoon
Unseen
Re: Latest pedal board incarnation...
Sorry I am firmly planted in the Cornish camp....
I do not like troo floopass very much....for alot of different reasons!
But there is enough different stuff out there to make you happy
There is only one bank, and eight loops, the buffer can be switched in or out.
We also use to test amps, instant change
Thomas is planning relays for the Combi 3 as well now...it will sport in and out buffers that can be switched on and off, that way people can do what they like....but it will not be very cheap at all
The Boss is talking about MIDI....but we are busting his nuts hard on that...he can keep his stinking MIDI to himself
20 years ago I still remember that /((¤3 POS MIDI stuff all too well....not fun to operate under fire!
Plus it is quite stiff to use!
All that programming....bah
Sorry I am firmly planted in the Cornish camp....
I do not like troo floopass very much....for alot of different reasons!
But there is enough different stuff out there to make you happy
There is only one bank, and eight loops, the buffer can be switched in or out.
We also use to test amps, instant change
Thomas is planning relays for the Combi 3 as well now...it will sport in and out buffers that can be switched on and off, that way people can do what they like....but it will not be very cheap at all
The Boss is talking about MIDI....but we are busting his nuts hard on that...he can keep his stinking MIDI to himself
20 years ago I still remember that /((¤3 POS MIDI stuff all too well....not fun to operate under fire!
Plus it is quite stiff to use!
All that programming....bah
wahwah
GumbyLoveologist
Re: Latest pedal board incarnation...
Yeah, well, I would trust Pete Cornish to make a great sounding buffer. I can't necessarily say the same for all other designers though. Some people's idea of an "improved signal" is my idea of sonic cheese, but it's a big world and there's room for all of us!
I'll check out an Octa-Switch at some stage and see if it will suit my needs.
I'm with you on the MIDI stuff....bah indeed.
Cheers............................wahwah
Sorry I am firmly planted in the Cornish camp....
I do not like troo floopass very much....for alot of different reasons!
But there is enough different stuff out there to make you happy
There is only one bank, and eight loops, the buffer can be switched in or out.
We also use to test amps, instant change
Thomas is planning relays for the Combi 3 as well now...it will sport in and out buffers that can be switched on and off, that way people can do what they like....but it will not be very cheap at all
The Boss is talking about MIDI....but we are busting his nuts hard on that...he can keep his stinking MIDI to himself
20 years ago I still remember that /((¤3 POS MIDI stuff all too well....not fun to operate under fire!
Plus it is quite stiff to use!
All that programming....bah
Yeah, well, I would trust Pete Cornish to make a great sounding buffer. I can't necessarily say the same for all other designers though. Some people's idea of an "improved signal" is my idea of sonic cheese, but it's a big world and there's room for all of us!
I'll check out an Octa-Switch at some stage and see if it will suit my needs.
I'm with you on the MIDI stuff....bah indeed.
Cheers............................wahwah
