Line 6 POD HD Series
- Thread starter cakire82
- Start date
astrozombie
KatyPerryologist
Re: Line 6 POD HD Series
How is this sad? It's about the coolest thing I've read in the thread.
I can't believe there's no SLO.
How is this sad? It's about the coolest thing I've read in the thread.
I can't believe there's no SLO.
sbecker67
New member
Re: Line 6 POD HD Series
Because the whole point of amp modelers is to eliminate the need for a zillion amps. I don't want a zillion amps but the failures of amp modelers has left me no choice.
There may be a SLO in my future but the Mesa can cover the same ground so it's not a necessity. I'd rather have a 65 Fender Dual Reverb Re-issue or a Divided by 13 JRT 9/15 for uber cleans. The HRDx is nice but not KILLER.
Then again, if I had a GOOD amp modeler I wouldn't want any of them!!!!!!
Because the whole point of amp modelers is to eliminate the need for a zillion amps. I don't want a zillion amps but the failures of amp modelers has left me no choice.
There may be a SLO in my future but the Mesa can cover the same ground so it's not a necessity. I'd rather have a 65 Fender Dual Reverb Re-issue or a Divided by 13 JRT 9/15 for uber cleans. The HRDx is nice but not KILLER.
Then again, if I had a GOOD amp modeler I wouldn't want any of them!!!!!!
St_Genesius
New member
Re: Line 6 POD HD Series
Do you DI from the POD to the PA? Bcause I've heard that work VERY well before.
For reasons I can't explain, a modeling amp sitting on stage has never worked as well to me. For years, I thought it was because people were dialing in their sounds at bedroom levels and then just turning up the volume on stage, thinking that what sounded good quiet would translate well loud (not accounting for how EQ curves change with spl) but now I'm not so sure that it's all user error.
Do you DI from the POD to the PA? Bcause I've heard that work VERY well before.
For reasons I can't explain, a modeling amp sitting on stage has never worked as well to me. For years, I thought it was because people were dialing in their sounds at bedroom levels and then just turning up the volume on stage, thinking that what sounded good quiet would translate well loud (not accounting for how EQ curves change with spl) but now I'm not so sure that it's all user error.
sbecker67
New member
Re: Line 6 POD HD Series
I have, yes. I don't think they're bad on their own but add another guitar player to the mix and I found they cannot compete. My biggest single gripe with modelers is the constant tweaking. Until they can emulate the amp to where I only have to fudge with the basic controls (drive, bass, mid & treble) to get a good tone then I want nothing to do with them. When you have to add multiple parametric EQ's and/or other "tricks" to make a model useable, it's not worth the effort.
I have, yes. I don't think they're bad on their own but add another guitar player to the mix and I found they cannot compete. My biggest single gripe with modelers is the constant tweaking. Until they can emulate the amp to where I only have to fudge with the basic controls (drive, bass, mid & treble) to get a good tone then I want nothing to do with them. When you have to add multiple parametric EQ's and/or other "tricks" to make a model useable, it's not worth the effort.
Empty Pockets
BadHairDayologist
Re: Line 6 POD HD Series
^ sbecker's live sound problems are exactly my issues with Line6 tone
you get the same 'sonic signature' and definitely in the ball-park of whatever amp you're supposed to sound like
but it never stops sounding like a recording and it always sounds a lot quieter than the guy with the real tube amp on the other side of the stage.
i always get this weird sensation like i'm playing a CD when I plug into any Line6 modeling units...all the weird inconsistencies are gone and everything is super-polished and sounds the same all the time. There are probably a lot of people that would really like that, but my favorite part of electric guitar is that it's out of control and unpredictable.
i've done some recording with POD Studios and i think they're really good for that because um modeling amps sound like recordings! But I've always used them as sketch pads at best -- getting down rough ideas before i dialed in a similar tone with my vintage tube head and a few stompboxes and cut a track or three at full volume.
so uh yeah. Modeling amps are pretty cool but they still have a long way to go.
that said, the M-series effects are bad ASS and everybody who plays guitar should take a long hard look at them. if they don't release an update soon i'm gona get an M13.
^ sbecker's live sound problems are exactly my issues with Line6 tone
you get the same 'sonic signature' and definitely in the ball-park of whatever amp you're supposed to sound like
but it never stops sounding like a recording and it always sounds a lot quieter than the guy with the real tube amp on the other side of the stage.
i always get this weird sensation like i'm playing a CD when I plug into any Line6 modeling units...all the weird inconsistencies are gone and everything is super-polished and sounds the same all the time. There are probably a lot of people that would really like that, but my favorite part of electric guitar is that it's out of control and unpredictable.
i've done some recording with POD Studios and i think they're really good for that because um modeling amps sound like recordings! But I've always used them as sketch pads at best -- getting down rough ideas before i dialed in a similar tone with my vintage tube head and a few stompboxes and cut a track or three at full volume.
so uh yeah. Modeling amps are pretty cool but they still have a long way to go.
that said, the M-series effects are bad ASS and everybody who plays guitar should take a long hard look at them. if they don't release an update soon i'm gona get an M13.
misterwhizzy
Well-known member
Re: Line 6 POD HD Series
You nailed it. I did some recording through my Studio UX2 using the JCM800 model, and especially the single-string passages just lost all the juiciness you're used to hearing. It sounded pretty good, I guess, but it certainly wasn't the real thing. I like the built-in noise reduction, though, because when I'm not playing, it's not hissing.
You nailed it. I did some recording through my Studio UX2 using the JCM800 model, and especially the single-string passages just lost all the juiciness you're used to hearing. It sounded pretty good, I guess, but it certainly wasn't the real thing. I like the built-in noise reduction, though, because when I'm not playing, it's not hissing.
cakire82
Cake Mire
Re: Line 6 POD HD Series
Another HD400 review. This guy persuaded me to buy my X3L and I can't say I regret it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GELZpuo7ZA8&feature=sub
Another HD400 review. This guy persuaded me to buy my X3L and I can't say I regret it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GELZpuo7ZA8&feature=sub
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LesStrat
Reining PunLowered
Re: Line 6 POD HD Series
Yes, I play direct to the board. I have a JBL Eon 15 monitor in front of me.
I have quite a bit of unpredictability with hi-gain settings. I use feedback on several songs. I use heavy palm-muting on a couple of songs that MUST be responsive to work.
And I'm horrible at programming. Thank God for youtoob instructional clips.
Yes, I play direct to the board. I have a JBL Eon 15 monitor in front of me.
I have quite a bit of unpredictability with hi-gain settings. I use feedback on several songs. I use heavy palm-muting on a couple of songs that MUST be responsive to work.
And I'm horrible at programming. Thank God for youtoob instructional clips.
krankguitarist
Krankitupologist
Re: Line 6 POD HD Series
Another new clip:
It's not gonna win over everybody, but it can get some very nice results.
Another new clip:
It's not gonna win over everybody, but it can get some very nice results.
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Butch Snyder
ObsoleteChickenPickingologist
Re: Line 6 POD HD Series
Well, the tones I heard were very nice. Aside from that, I would buy whatever CD that guy is covering in a heartbeat.
Well, the tones I heard were very nice. Aside from that, I would buy whatever CD that guy is covering in a heartbeat.
UCSDBoy
New member
Re: Line 6 POD HD Series
Hi guys,
Guess I'll throw my $0.02 in. I wanted to take a look and see if I could see what kind of processors the Axe-Fx and the PODHD were using. A couple of well-meaning guys already did it. Here is what they found:
POD HD DSP: SHARC ADSP-21369 at 333 MHz (KSZ-2A), 2.4 GFLOPS
POD X3 DSP: SHARC ADSP-21369 at 266 MHz (KSZ-1A), 1.6 GFLOPS
POD XT DSP: at 60 MHz, 180 MFLOPS
Axe-FX (Standard) DSP: TigerSharc at 500MHz, 3.0GFLOPS
Axe-FX (Ultra) DSP: TigerSHARC at 600MHz 4.0GFLOPS
In a nutshell, for all the POD 'HD', the chip at least is just an incremental improvement over the X3. The TigerSHARC is the next level - I'll let you draw your own conclusions from that.
IMHO, the reason software amp modelers work so well (and take up so much CPU cycles) is because desktop CPUs have a lot more horsepower to crunch numbers - more than what is offered in the chips in the Axe-Fx and the PODHD. (although the chip designs are not equivalent - DSP chips specialize in signal processing while your desktop CPU is a general purpose number cruncher) I think the primary reason the Axe-Fx sounds more 3D is because there's more processing power under the hood. IMHO, spending 500 bucks for mid-level DSP is kinda pricey. If their Mk2 version (which will come out in 2 years of course. =)) has the tigersharc, then that might be something.
Hi guys,
Guess I'll throw my $0.02 in. I wanted to take a look and see if I could see what kind of processors the Axe-Fx and the PODHD were using. A couple of well-meaning guys already did it. Here is what they found:
POD HD DSP: SHARC ADSP-21369 at 333 MHz (KSZ-2A), 2.4 GFLOPS
POD X3 DSP: SHARC ADSP-21369 at 266 MHz (KSZ-1A), 1.6 GFLOPS
POD XT DSP: at 60 MHz, 180 MFLOPS
Axe-FX (Standard) DSP: TigerSharc at 500MHz, 3.0GFLOPS
Axe-FX (Ultra) DSP: TigerSHARC at 600MHz 4.0GFLOPS
In a nutshell, for all the POD 'HD', the chip at least is just an incremental improvement over the X3. The TigerSHARC is the next level - I'll let you draw your own conclusions from that.
IMHO, the reason software amp modelers work so well (and take up so much CPU cycles) is because desktop CPUs have a lot more horsepower to crunch numbers - more than what is offered in the chips in the Axe-Fx and the PODHD. (although the chip designs are not equivalent - DSP chips specialize in signal processing while your desktop CPU is a general purpose number cruncher) I think the primary reason the Axe-Fx sounds more 3D is because there's more processing power under the hood. IMHO, spending 500 bucks for mid-level DSP is kinda pricey. If their Mk2 version (which will come out in 2 years of course. =)) has the tigersharc, then that might be something.
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cakire82
Cake Mire
Re: Line 6 POD HD Series
Although hardware is very important it all to a point. Software on it is equally important in my opinion. Even if Line6 had the same processor results could be significantly different.
Although hardware is very important it all to a point. Software on it is equally important in my opinion. Even if Line6 had the same processor results could be significantly different.
richard parker
Active member
Re: Line 6 POD HD Series
I've always thought that the Line6/all other modellers stuff was a case of quantity rather than quality. I've said before that if modelling was so good why not produce a simple amp for the likes of me who only needs 2 or 3 sounds ? So it's interesting to see that the new HD combos and heads (with tubes) are only 2 channel amps. At last Line 6 are putting their money where their mouth is. I'd like to try one of these.
I've always thought that the Line6/all other modellers stuff was a case of quantity rather than quality. I've said before that if modelling was so good why not produce a simple amp for the likes of me who only needs 2 or 3 sounds ? So it's interesting to see that the new HD combos and heads (with tubes) are only 2 channel amps. At last Line 6 are putting their money where their mouth is. I'd like to try one of these.
UCSDBoy
New member
Re: Line 6 POD HD Series
I think you're making an assumption that programmers are never constrained by resources. While that is often true when writing many web or desktop applications (something I've done) that's less true when writing video games (also something I've done) and even less true when writing embedded software (you get the idea).
In the case of the POD, you have software that's designed to run on a relatively constrained hardware platform (although not as constrained as say the one in your car or your microwave oven). On the POD, there is a true bottleneck or upper limit in this case that is going to be speed and degree at which the DSP unit can modify the signal (aka filtering) without introducing unacceptable latency.
While it's true that in theory software written for the same platform can be of differing quality (compare any AAA and bargin-bin PS3 game) the CPU limit is very real and in this case, a relatively low ceiling while the quality of their architects and programmers is merely speculation. Moreover, the speculation is not very likely in this case given their past history as amp modeling pioneers and their apparent history as an R&D house for large companies before becoming Line6. (They may or may not have the best but it's a fair assumption to say that they DO not have the worst.)
I think you're making an assumption that programmers are never constrained by resources. While that is often true when writing many web or desktop applications (something I've done) that's less true when writing video games (also something I've done) and even less true when writing embedded software (you get the idea).
In the case of the POD, you have software that's designed to run on a relatively constrained hardware platform (although not as constrained as say the one in your car or your microwave oven). On the POD, there is a true bottleneck or upper limit in this case that is going to be speed and degree at which the DSP unit can modify the signal (aka filtering) without introducing unacceptable latency.
While it's true that in theory software written for the same platform can be of differing quality (compare any AAA and bargin-bin PS3 game) the CPU limit is very real and in this case, a relatively low ceiling while the quality of their architects and programmers is merely speculation. Moreover, the speculation is not very likely in this case given their past history as amp modeling pioneers and their apparent history as an R&D house for large companies before becoming Line6. (They may or may not have the best but it's a fair assumption to say that they DO not have the worst.)
UCSDBoy
New member
Re: Line 6 POD HD Series
It's important to point out that the effort to create models appears significant, but also appears to be something they leverage between products; that implies that once the hard work's been done, it takes as much effort to put out an amp with an ass-ton of models as it does one with 2-3 models on it. I imagine it becomes a selling-point that more models is more, not less.
As to why not focus on making an amp with 2-3 BETTER models as opposed to 78 so-so models, I (see previous post) again imagine that the processor places an upper-limit on how strong a model they can make. IE if you want higher quality models you need higher quality hardware; that hardware if it exists costs more money and hence raises the price.
My original post was showing a little bit of disappointment in that the PODHD is only an incremental upgrade in CPU and is a distant second behind the chip in the AxeFX in terms of performance.
It's important to point out that the effort to create models appears significant, but also appears to be something they leverage between products; that implies that once the hard work's been done, it takes as much effort to put out an amp with an ass-ton of models as it does one with 2-3 models on it. I imagine it becomes a selling-point that more models is more, not less.
As to why not focus on making an amp with 2-3 BETTER models as opposed to 78 so-so models, I (see previous post) again imagine that the processor places an upper-limit on how strong a model they can make. IE if you want higher quality models you need higher quality hardware; that hardware if it exists costs more money and hence raises the price.
My original post was showing a little bit of disappointment in that the PODHD is only an incremental upgrade in CPU and is a distant second behind the chip in the AxeFX in terms of performance.
innerdreamrecords.co
TrippyVinylologist
Re: Line 6 POD HD Series
It still sounds flat compared to a speaker mic'd, so does the Axe FX to my ears. I suspect the Axe FX uses the extra processor muscle for effects. I've heard a lot of demos of the Axe FX and I'm not sure the price difference is justified. I think with a Vox ST, Boss GT10 or POD HD and a high quality effects processor you could get pretty close.
It still sounds flat compared to a speaker mic'd, so does the Axe FX to my ears. I suspect the Axe FX uses the extra processor muscle for effects. I've heard a lot of demos of the Axe FX and I'm not sure the price difference is justified. I think with a Vox ST, Boss GT10 or POD HD and a high quality effects processor you could get pretty close.
krankguitarist
Krankitupologist
Re: Line 6 POD HD Series
^ Honestly, I like the built-in effects from the HD series well enough. I mean, they're transplanted directly from the M13.
The whole argument that keeps on cycling over and over is that a speaker mic'd will sound better. I'll put that another, more accurate way: A speaker mic'd has the potential to sound better.
Amp modeling is a godsend for the hobbyist and the computer-recordist. The HD series makes getting usable, and in the right hands downright great tones from an affordable little box. It simplifies the creative process, and anything that does that is cool in my book.
The X3 I grudgingly accepted because it simplified the creative process. Thus why I'm so excited about my new HD500. It simply holds a whole lot more potential than the previous model.
^ Honestly, I like the built-in effects from the HD series well enough. I mean, they're transplanted directly from the M13.
The whole argument that keeps on cycling over and over is that a speaker mic'd will sound better. I'll put that another, more accurate way: A speaker mic'd has the potential to sound better.
Amp modeling is a godsend for the hobbyist and the computer-recordist. The HD series makes getting usable, and in the right hands downright great tones from an affordable little box. It simplifies the creative process, and anything that does that is cool in my book.
The X3 I grudgingly accepted because it simplified the creative process. Thus why I'm so excited about my new HD500. It simply holds a whole lot more potential than the previous model.
Lazarus1140
New member
Re: Line 6 POD HD Series
I hope it works out for you. I am a lousy tweaker.
I hope it works out for you. I am a lousy tweaker.
