Line 6 vs. Vox XL

Re: Line 6 vs. Vox XL

tonedeaf1 said:
I completely disagree with this statement. Although there may be better stuff out there, I don't find my Roland Cube 30X to be "digital and lifeless" at all. I find it to be a vesatile amp that can emulate a wide variety of tones and it doesn't sound"digital" at all to me.
Click to expand...

i completely disagree with your complete disagreement.

versatile? wide variety of tones? sure

but it sounds like a keyboard amp EQ'd for guitars.
 
Re: Line 6 vs. Vox XL

Empty Pockets said:
i completely disagree with your complete disagreement.

versatile? wide variety of tones? sure

but it sounds like a keyboard amp EQ'd for guitars.
Click to expand...

A keyboard amp eq'd for guitars? Aren't keyboard amps exceptionally clean?

I don't get what people have against digitized music. If you listen to CD's, you are listening to 100% digitized music. The guitars, the bass, the drums, the vocals, the horn section, the woodwinds, the backup singers, the keyboards, the tambourines, or whatever are completely 100% digitized and are being converted to music by a computerized chip. And if you are listening to MP3's on your iPod, you are listening to "lo-def" digital music!!! An average CD will hold 80 minutes of (digital) sound. An MP3 CD will hold upwards of 70 HOURS of (digital) sound.
80 minutes vs. 4200 minutes!

80minutes vs. 160minutes = 1/2 quality
80m vs. 320m = 1/4 quality
80m vs. 640m = 1/8 quality
80m vs. 1280m = 1/16 quality
80m vs. 2560m = 1/32 quality
80 vs. 5120m = 1/64 quality

So your MP3's could be somewhere between 1/32nd and 1/64th the quality of CD's, which are already 100% digital. Higher quality Mp3's can be between 1/4 and 1/2 the quality of "CD" quality music, but most are lower than that. If that isn't "lo-def" digitized music, what is it?
CD's, DVD's, Mp3's, Blu-ray, all 100% digital. Put on a blu-ray movie and marvel at the digital sound being pumped through your speakers, and the hi-def digital picture, and the thump of those digital low freqeuncy effects through your subwoofer.
 
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Re: Line 6 vs. Vox XL

Empty Pockets said:
i completely disagree with your complete disagreement.

versatile? wide variety of tones? sure

but it sounds like a keyboard amp EQ'd for guitars.
Click to expand...


I totally agree with your complete disagreement with his complete disagreement :)


@tonedeaf1:

The design of guitar amplifier and hi-fi home stereo amplifier differs in many ways. Home stereo is made to amplify the input signal (make it louder) with special attention paid to it not influencing the signal regarding tone color, harmonics, dynamics, etc. Just like zooming the picture of the pretty girl to see her eyes.
The purpose of the guitar amplifier is to have distinct tone characterists, dynamic response, harmonic distortion characteristics, etc. That's just like zoooming the picture of the pretty girl to see under her clothes, and actually succeeding :)
That's why some guitarist likes the sound of the certain amplifier.

Dire Straits would sound almost the same wheather you play their CD through Sony, Philips, Technics , whatever amp. As soon as you play it everyone will say - Hey, that's Knopfler playing.
But if Mark played his Fender through Mesa clean channel nobody could tell WTH is going on :)

Once you have your instruments and vocal recorded on tube equipement, signal normalized, amplitude compressed, then it's easy to go digital.

Comparing this (eventually digitalized) approach to Roland's Cube (that's all digitall from the start) is just like comparing original Van Gogh's picture seen on the web (analog job, at some moment digitalized):

http://spiralzoom.com/Science/spiralgalaxies/751px-VanGogh-starry_night_edit.jpg

with the same picture drawn in MS Paint (all digital from start):

http://www.swmoore.com/images/kthx/msp1.jpg

..if you catch my drift.
 
Re: Line 6 vs. Vox XL

tonedeaf1 said:
A keyboard amp eq'd for guitars? Aren't keyboard amps exceptionally clean?

I don't get what people have against digitized music. If you listen to CD's, you are listening to 100% digitized music. The guitars, the bass, the drums, the vocals, the horn section, the woodwinds, the backup singers, the keyboards, the tambourines, or whatever are completely 100% digitized and are being converted to music by a computerized chip. And if you are listening to MP3's on your iPod, you are listening to "lo-def" digital music!!! An average CD will hold 80 minutes of (digital) sound. An MP3 CD will hold upwards of 70 HOURS of (digital) sound.
80 minutes vs. 4200 minutes!

80minutes vs. 160minutes = 1/2 quality
80m vs. 320m = 1/4 quality
80m vs. 640m = 1/8 quality
80m vs. 1280m = 1/16 quality
80m vs. 2560m = 1/32 quality
80 vs. 5120m = 1/64 quality

So your MP3's could be somewhere between 1/32nd and 1/64th the quality of CD's, which are already 100% digital. Higher quality Mp3's can be between 1/4 and 1/2 the quality of "CD" quality music, but most are lower than that. If that isn't "lo-def" digitized music, what is it?
CD's, DVD's, Mp3's, Blu-ray, all 100% digital. Put on a blu-ray movie and marvel at the digital sound being pumped through your speakers, and the hi-def digital picture, and the thump of those digital low freqeuncy effects through your subwoofer.
Click to expand...

This condescending post makes me want to write one just as condescending about how tube amps work, but i'm just gonna drink a beer and agree with your screen name :smokin:
 
Re: Line 6 vs. Vox XL

Okay, first of all, I wasn't trying to be condescending. If my post came across that way it may be related to my aversion to smiley faces. I'll try to clarify my opinion, if I can. I would never argue that digital is as good as analog, because I don't believe this at all. What I am trying to say is this. If you take a warm, rich, sweet analog recording of say something like a violin, or a cello, or an oboe, or a human voice or anything thing that has some harmonic richness to it, and then you take that analog sweetness and run it through a pcb board with a computer chip on it that makes a valiant attempt to convert this into a digital (artificial, non-analog) format of ones and zeroes, some of the nuance of the original recording will be lost in the encoding process. Then, when you play it back, it again has to go through another pcb board with a chip on it that attempts to convert the ones and zeroes back into an analog signal so it can be reproduced by the amplifier into sound. This is also not a 100% procedure. So you lose some of the richness of the analog signal in the encoding process, and you lose a little more in the decoding process. When CD's first came out, there were complaints, in the audiophile world at least, about the lack of warmth of the digital recordings that their analog (vinyl) counterparts had in spades. There were also comments about the artificial crispness of the sound, especially in the midrange, that many described as sterile or even harsh. Granted, improved chips have reduced these compromises to a certain extent, but digital is still inferior to analog. BUT, having said that, CD's are good enough for the majority of us, and even lower quality versions of this already somewhat compromised format are good enough for the millions of people who blast their eardrums with an iPod playing Mp3's. There was a time when you could choose between vinyl and CD's and some people chose vinyl even though it was less durable and less convenient than CD's, solely for it's superior "musicality". So my main point is that we live with the inferiority (compromises) of digital sound everyday. But it's "good enough" for most of us. Some people of the younger generation have never known anything but digital music. So transferring this argument to guitar amps, I would say this: While the digital emulation is inferior to the analog orignal, it's good enough for me, and for alot of other people. Does my Vox model equal a real Vox? No it doesn't, but it gets me in the ballpark, and it's "good enough" for practicing and even for jamming. The same goes for all the other models on my Cube. The first generation of digital modelers may have totally sucked, I don't know because I never had one, but the current generation IMHO doesn't suck. And future generations will be even better. And I would gladly drink a beer with you or anyone else on this forum. I guess i need to start using the smiley face in my posts. I'm really an easy-going guy who tries to love everybody. Even people who use a Fender Bassman. Just kidding, I really like the Bassman model on my cube.
 
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Re: Line 6 vs. Vox XL

tonedeaf1 said:
A keyboard amp eq'd for guitars? Aren't keyboard amps exceptionally clean?

I don't get what people have against digitized music. If you listen to CD's, you are listening to 100% digitized music. The guitars, the bass, the drums, the vocals, the horn section, the woodwinds, the backup singers, the keyboards, the tambourines, or whatever are completely 100% digitized and are being converted to music by a computerized chip. And if you are listening to MP3's on your iPod, you are listening to "lo-def" digital music!!! An average CD will hold 80 minutes of (digital) sound. An MP3 CD will hold upwards of 70 HOURS of (digital) sound.
80 minutes vs. 4200 minutes!

80minutes vs. 160minutes = 1/2 quality
80m vs. 320m = 1/4 quality
80m vs. 640m = 1/8 quality
80m vs. 1280m = 1/16 quality
80m vs. 2560m = 1/32 quality
80 vs. 5120m = 1/64 quality

So your MP3's could be somewhere between 1/32nd and 1/64th the quality of CD's, which are already 100% digital. Higher quality Mp3's can be between 1/4 and 1/2 the quality of "CD" quality music, but most are lower than that. If that isn't "lo-def" digitized music, what is it?
CD's, DVD's, Mp3's, Blu-ray, all 100% digital. Put on a blu-ray movie and marvel at the digital sound being pumped through your speakers, and the hi-def digital picture, and the thump of those digital low freqeuncy effects through your subwoofer.
Click to expand...

You have grossly misunderstood how mp3 compression works, but that's neither here nor there.
 
Re: Line 6 vs. Vox XL

tonedeaf1: no hard feelings, just confronting some ideas :)

Well, the thoughts of yours may apply in Hi-Fidelity audio world, but in a guitar world it's a no-no.

Tube sound is to digital sound, what kissing a real girl is to kissing a crash doll! :)
 
Re: Line 6 vs. Vox XL

cronnin said:
tonedeaf1: no hard feelings, just confronting some ideas :)

Well, the thoughts of yours may apply in Hi-Fidelity audio world, but in a guitar world it's a no-no.

Tube sound is to digital sound, what kissing a real girl is to kissing a crash doll! :)
Click to expand...

Well, I have an Epi Valve Junior that is OK sounding. But the Cube 30X is what I play almost exclusively. I haven't tried kissing a crash doll yet so I'll have to take your word for it that it's not as good as kissing a real girl. :)
 
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Re: Line 6 vs. Vox XL

tonedeaf1 said:
Well, I have an Epi Valve Junior that is OK sounding. But the Cube 30X is what I play almost exclusively. I haven't tried kissing a crash doll yet so I'll have to take your word for it that it's not as good as kissing a real girl. :)
Click to expand...

Well, that's not exactly the best tube amp to be comparing to ... plus I'm sure that at low volumes your Cube sounds WAY better.

I have a Mesa Stiletto Ace, which sounds amazing, but it's way too loud for home practice and really small gigs. This is why I'm in the process of buying a Vox VT30 (awesome amp that deserves its own thread btw.) for the times when the Stiletto is too much. It has nothing to do with tubes being better or worse than modeling; it's all about using the right tool for the job.
 
Re: Line 6 vs. Vox XL

ratherdashing said:
Well, that's not exactly the best tube amp to be comparing to ... plus I'm sure that at low volumes your Cube sounds WAY better.

I have a Mesa Stiletto Ace, which sounds amazing, but it's way too loud for home practice and really small gigs. This is why I'm in the process of buying a Vox VT30 (awesome amp that deserves its own thread btw.) for the times when the Stiletto is too much. It has nothing to do with tubes being better or worse than modeling; it's all about using the right tool for the job.
Click to expand...

One of these days I want to try something from the Valvetronix line. The valve reactor circuitry seems like it could be the best way to bridge the gap between digital and tube. One thing I really like about the Cube is that I can switch to the acoustic simulator mode, switch to the neck pickup on my Squier 51, and practice strumming open chords, which is an area I have neglected for too long. It doesn't sound exactly like an acoustic guitar but it's pleasant enough for practicing.
 
Re: Line 6 vs. Vox XL

LesStrat said:
The newer L6 amps are hybrids. They married Bogner for the later models.
Click to expand...

Not on all of 'em man...just the Spider Valve series.

There is still a Line 6 Spider series without tubes...they're up to number 3 now and are actually pretty decent for a general-purpose practice amp, but the Vox sounds good enough for practice and to record with.

I would probably double track it with an all-tube amp but to get lots of various amp 'flavors' the new VT15 or VT30 is awesome.
 
Re: Line 6 vs. Vox XL

ratherdashing said:
Well, that's not exactly the best tube amp to be comparing to ... plus I'm sure that at low volumes your Cube sounds WAY better.

I have a Mesa Stiletto Ace, which sounds amazing, but it's way too loud for home practice and really small gigs. This is why I'm in the process of buying a Vox VT30 (awesome amp that deserves its own thread btw.) for the times when the Stiletto is too much. It has nothing to do with tubes being better or worse than modeling; it's all about using the right tool for the job.
Click to expand...

http://duhvoodooman.com/AD30VT/spkr_grill.htm
 
Re: Line 6 vs. Vox XL

Okay so its been a bit but I have some news, I have decided that I don't want the L6. I was trying it out at my local GC and compared to the Vox it just didnt measure up. Also, from reviews and demos I heard online, if you turn the volume past halfway the sound gets terrible, so no more Line 6.
Now its down to the Vox XL. I just was wonderin after checking out the Vt's online, would it be worth it to spend the extra couple hundred dollars for a VT, or just get the multi effect I was planning on getting later anyway?
 
Re: Line 6 vs. Vox XL

extra couple hundred dollars????? Are the XL's free?

Vox Valvetronix VT30 30W 1x10 Guitar Combo Amp
The Vox Valvetronix VT30 is a 30W combo amp that gives you 22 amp models ranging from the latest high-gain types to hard-to-find boutique and vintage...
Ships Free Today!
Buy New: $269.00

How much is the XL going for?

Do not get the XL is my recommendation.
 
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