Lower gain = fuller tone?

[Closed Eye]

I've noticed recently that when I turn down the gain channel on my amp, and it's gone down more and more with each passing month, the tone from my guitar gets more pronounced. The other thing is that, and this is the cool part, the lower gain doesn't really affect how the distortion sounds.
I actually sound better with less gain!

I get the same kick and the same "oomph" with the lower gain...why is this?

I'm not sure if it's the pickups on the studio (which, I don't think are stock, to be honest) or just my taste in music has a changed a little bit that I don't need as much gain...or *gasp* I've become a better player?

I don't know, but I just think it's amazing that my guitar/amp/effects sound better when my gain is (amazingly) set at about 4 1/2...anybody else experience this?

Oh yeah, the other funny thing is that it's not just with my amp (MG250DFX) but it's the same with just about every amp I try.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Lower gain = fuller tone?

youll find that you dont need as much gain as you think to get sustain and crunch, and less gain usually = a punchier fuller tone for the audience. i used to play with a modded jcm 800 half stack with the gain on 10 and put a pedal in front of the amp to push it even harder. now i use tweed style amps with no gain and just turn em up till they overdrive and i have some seriously punchy (if you ask most people killer) tone.

 

[Curly]

Re: Lower gain = fuller tone?

I think you probably are hearing more tube overdrive as you turn the gain down

 

[The Golden Boy]

Re: Lower gain = fuller tone?

Yeah, that lack of saturation lets you know how nice your guitar actually sounds!

Keep this in mind when you record. Fuzzy, over compressed, non distinct tones aren't really your friend when recording. If your a Zeppelin fan, think of the heaviest LZ song... Go back and listen to it- the guitars are nowhere as 'gainy' as you remember them being.

 

[Simon_F]

Re: Lower gain = fuller tone?

think of the heaviest LZ song... Go back and listen to it- the guitars are nowhere as 'gainy' as you remember them being.

True! Good point!

A lot of the perceived heaviosity of Zeppelin recordings (IMO) is down to the drums - Bonzo's playing and Pagey's production. :notworthy

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Lower gain = fuller tone?

A lot of this problem has to do with how it "feels" when you're playing. It's easy to get addicted to the sensitivity, sustain and feedback of high gain because it takes less effort to get the notes out. Problem is (especially when recording as someone said earlier), high gain overemphasizes the overtones so much that it obscures the fundamental pitch and your guitar sounds more like a beehive than the ass-kicking riff machine you think it is. If you have the nerve to check in to hi-gain rehab, go to your local Guitarmageddon competition at Guitar Center next March and listen to all the guys playing with soaked out amps -- that will be the cold shower you need to roll that gain knob back...

But if even this doesn't put you on the wagon and you still just have to have that soak, there is a solution Frank Zappa came up with -- he would run two amps, one crunched out and one straight clean. The clean amp would give the clear low end punch to support and cut through the high-gain buzz and mush. I've tried this idea and it does work. You may want to compress or at least limit the clean amp some so that when you hit it hard, the spike of the clean amp doesn't overpower the crunch.

 

[WhoFan]

Re: Lower gain = fuller tone?

I find i like higain amps but with the gain backed off a lot.... I use a bunch of different amps but my favourits are the higain amps with the gain lowered.... some magic happens when you do that.... i always get surprised if i'm recording my guitar how little fuzz is needed....!!!!

WhoFan

 

[The Golden Boy]

Re: Lower gain = fuller tone?

But if even this doesn't put you on the wagon and you still just have to have that soak, there is a solution Frank Zappa came up with -- he would run two amps, one crunched out and one straight clean. The clean amp would give the clear low end punch to support and cut through the high-gain buzz and mush. I've tried this idea and it does work. You may want to compress or at least limit the clean amp some so that when you hit it hard, the spike of the clean amp doesn't overpower the crunch.

Have the amps on opposite sides of you and split your signal with a Stereo Chorus!!!

 

[Faraday]

Re: Lower gain = fuller tone?

I use amps known for hi gain also, but substitiute 12au7 for 12ax7 (20% gain) and it sings without the fuzz

 

[Rich_S]

Re: Lower gain = fuller tone?

Two words: AC. DC.

QED

 

[Hot _Grits]

Re: Lower gain = fuller tone?

Two words: AC. DC.

QED

Yep. Possibly the ballsiest band ever, and very little gain. Old marshalls with the power stages being pushed.

Even most of EVH's classic early tones are less gained out than most people think.

 

[Mephis]

Re: Lower gain = fuller tone?

Well... I've found a way to get lots of gain but still maintain dynamics.

Run your amp slightly dirty, think ACDC like.

Then put a pedal out front, and dial OUTPUT to taste and set the gain to about 9'Oclock.

I have my amp rip roaring with judas priest level gain, but I'm maintaining all thoes great traditional tele tones mixed in. I love this tone to death.

 

[Mr Wolf]

Re: Lower gain = fuller tone?

I found that too after being in a band for a while. We were a thrash metal type thing. The other guitarist used his multi effect and always maxed out the gain to create the beehive effect. I tended to use the amps they had in the rehearsal room (5150s, JCM 900s), gain pretty low and it allows a nice thick smooth tone. That with mids and treble and i had a smile on my face

 

[boonhogganbeck]

Re: Lower gain = fuller tone?

I agree. Think about Warren Haynes using his SLO 100. That amp has a ton of preamp gain, but he never turns it up past about 9:00 and just uses an OD (Klon) for solo boost. I tend to do the same with a Mesa F-50. I think it generally sounds a lot better than maxing the preamp and getting the chainsaw sound.

 

[The Golden Boy]

Re: Lower gain = fuller tone?

Well... I've found a way to get lots of gain but still maintain dynamics.

Run your amp slightly dirty, think ACDC like.

Then put a pedal out front, and dial OUTPUT to taste and set the gain to about 9'Oclock.

I have my amp rip roaring with judas priest level gain, but I'm maintaining all thoes great traditional tele tones mixed in. I love this tone to death.

Most any distortion/OD pedal will compress your tone. Compression, by nature and definition, eats your dynamics.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Lower gain = fuller tone?

Have the amps on opposite sides of you and split your signal with a Stereo Chorus!!!

So it was YOU who broke into my apartment the other day and took a peek at my rig!

 

[The Golden Boy]

Re: Lower gain = fuller tone?

So it was YOU who broke into my apartment the other day and took a peek at my rig!

Yeah! Did you make that lasagna? I only had a slice- but it was GOOD!

 

[Skarekrough]

Re: Lower gain = fuller tone?

I agree. Think about Warren Haynes using his SLO 100. That amp has a ton of preamp gain, but he never turns it up past about 9:00 and just uses an OD (Klon) for solo boost. I tend to do the same with a Mesa F-50. I think it generally sounds a lot better than maxing the preamp and getting the chainsaw sound.

I was watching "Deepest End" last night and that really ocurred to me. Warrens sound, despite the fact that he has enough effects at his feet to cause an air traffic controller anxiety, is actually very clear and simplistic.

He has his effects....but they're mostly one-offs for specific songs.

But most of the time his sound is VERY low-gain sounding. When he isn't leaning on it the sound's actuallly pretty clean.