Magnet swap in a Low Output pickup.

[AR999]

Hello All,

I recently purchased a great guitar from Rock N Roll relics, a nice single pickup and kill switch only....plain and simple. The pickup in it is a great David Allen "Alley Cat" you know it's one of the "almost true" to a real '57 PAF, very low output in the 7.5 range A2 magnet.

Ok, all my other guitars have Duncan 59's in them, and I'm finding I do not like the spongy bass and lack of definition of the high end with a hot amp or overdrive with the Alley Cat, is a magnet swap a good idea or should I just sell the pickup and go with what I've used for years?

I've done plenty of magnet swaps, but never with a pickup under 8K, so if you did want to swap what would you recommend to make this pickup a little "tighter", more modern?
1) A5
2) A8
3) UOA V

Or like I said sell it and move on.. I don't want to alter a great pickup if it's not worth it, I can always just replace it instead, but would prefer a magnet swap.

Thanks for any suggestions !

 

[metlking]

Re: Magnet swap in a Low Output pickup.

Try a magnet swap. I just put an C8 in a Pearly Gates bridge that was a little weaker than the other PGb I own. It tightened it up and modernized it for sure! Bright and crisp on the top end. Tighter low end. Its worth a shot and about $2.75 from Philadelphia Luthier...... http://www.philadelphialuthiertools...-8-bar-magnet-2-5-x-5-x-125-magnetized-qty-2/

 

[AR999]

Re: Magnet swap in a Low Output pickup.

I have all three Magnets already, I just don't want to pull the pickup apart three times (I know that sounds lazy).. There seems to be a divide on the A8..some people say a hot magnet like that won't gel with such a low wind pickup, others say an A8 is magic in the bridge position of any humbucker.

 

[metlking]

Re: Magnet swap in a Low Output pickup.

I just started experimenting with magnets. I bought several. I thought I was getting an Alnico 8 but ended up with a Ceramic 8. Don't know if theres a difference, but I'd bet there is....Maybe the Alnico would be hot but a little smoother...........

 

[AlexR]

Re: Magnet swap in a Low Output pickup.

You won't and cannot get any consensus on what mag swaps do specifically. Different pickups respond differently, as do the guitars that they are in. Then your rig might require a different mag to overcome certain deficiencies depending on the eq you have set.

Mag swapping is not for the lazy, you simply have to try and see.

 

[AR999]

Re: Magnet swap in a Low Output pickup.

Well. I think I've thrown the A8 out of the race, but on a recommendation I might throw a short polished A5 into the mix, so it seems to be the battle of the Alnico V's. I think I'll start with the UOA and work from there... Definitely going to try at least those three.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: Magnet swap in a Low Output pickup.

You might also consider A4- it works well in low winds. Tighter lows & crisper highs than an A2, and it seems to allow the natural tone of a guitar to shine through better than mags that impose their own personality on your sound. Good choice for an axe with good wood.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Magnet swap in a Low Output pickup.

From what you are describing I would definitely recommend the A5 (full length). I've been doing mag swaps for many years and understand the relative characteristic of the various mags. While it is true that the guitar, the pup, and amp have an effect on the final tone (as Alex has said), those are staying constant so you can essentially take them out of the equation. So you are just comparing the inherent qualities of each mag.

Compared to the A2, the polished A5 will give you a tighter low end and a much brighter and crisper high end. The A8 will have a similar effect but the highs will be a bit softer than the A5 (still way brighter than the A2) and the overall output and punch will be increased.

The UOA5 will have a tighter bass and brighter highs than the A2 but it will have a slightly softer warmer sound than the A5. It's closer in character to the A5 than the A2.

 

[AR999]

Re: Magnet swap in a Low Output pickup.

I had never considered an A4 before, but you are the third person to mention it, so I'm ordering one of those today also.

 

[AR999]

Re: Magnet swap in a Low Output pickup.

GuitarDoc,

I've been using rough cast AV's for years, but from what you're saying a polished might bring out a little more definition? I guess that with using the Duncan '59s for so long I got used to taming some of the brightness, now I'm doing the opposite, makes sense. I'm just ordering a couple more magnets and doing this all the way, Once I've started I know I won't stop until I get what I'm looking for. So I'm going to hold off on putting the UOA in tomorrow and hopefully the A5 gets here so I can start there.

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Magnet swap in a Low Output pickup.

Well. I think I've thrown the A8 out of the race

Why? Even though you haven't given a lot of info about what you're trying to accomplish and about this guitar having only one p'up, so I'll assume it's located on the bridge position, am I right?

If it's so, considering the p'ups specs, being more of a neck p'up than a bridge one, depending on what you'd like to play with this guitar, an A8 might be just what the doctor ordered! Or your only choice, I may add.

Maybe if you tell a little bit more about this project, maybe some of us may try an educated guess.

C'mon... you know you want to!

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Magnet swap in a Low Output pickup.

I agree that the OP has to find out for himself.

It's worth it.

Most of my guitars have alnico 2 magnets: Pearly Gates and CS Pearly Gates.

So I assumed when I started magnet swapping in my 59's that I would prefer Alnico 2.

The majority of "experts" advised me to use UOA5.

Tried both Roughcast A2 and UOA5...and liked both.

But for me, it was Roughcast A5 that gave me the tones I was hearing in my head.

 

[AR999]

Re: Magnet swap in a Low Output pickup.

LtKojack,

I was hoping you would give me your thoughts. You were the one who first piqued my interest in A8 magnets from many previous threads.
Here's what I'm working with:
A very light Mahogany body with a single pickup at the bridge, I know resistance/output isn't an exact science to some but I'm getting about a 7.5 from the pickup with the A2 in it.
The sound I normally use 90% of the time is my bridge humbucker (SD 59's with rough cast A5's in them) through a Marshall Silver Jubilee, think AC/DC plus a touch more gain (but not metal) the old Les Paul through a cranked JCM 800 sound used so much.

Now several people have warned me an A8 won't gel with such a low wind pickup, but I know you are a fan of them in the bridge, I already have one here, and by tomorrow afternoon will have every magnet mentioned in this thread, so I guess once I unsolder the cover and break the tape, I might as well try them all, it's not like I'm playing any arena shows anytime soon

I just want a balanced pickup that stays tight in the bottom end and has headroom on the treble side where I can control that, I never use my pickups for my gain, I like my amps to do the dirty work.

Thanks for chiming in, I always find your posts witty and informative.

This is the guitar http://rebel-guitars.com/rock-n-roll-relics-fifty-two-in-black/

 

[Davii]

Re: Magnet swap in a Low Output pickup.

I've tried ceramic, and neodymium in a 490R, which I assume is a low wind pickup, and the results weren't terrible. Or more to say, weren't the shrill pain laiden experience I'd expected. On the other hand, the signal was DI'd, and no gain to speak of being applied etc etc.

I find A8 to be far more useable than expected as well, so maybe it's not an automatic no no

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Magnet swap in a Low Output pickup.

The sound I normally use 90% of the time is my bridge humbucker (SD 59's with rough cast A5's in them) through a Marshall Silver Jubilee, think AC/DC plus a touch more gain (but not metal) the old Les Paul through a cranked JCM 800 sound used so much.

Well, your request, in conjunction with that low wind, has A8 written all over.

Now several people have warned me an A8 won't gel with such a low wind pickup

I'd like to know if those "several people" have actually had any experience at all, playing A8s, to give you an somewhat educated guess... but of course they don't have any; otherwise they would've said exactly the opposite!

Anyway, you have several mags at your disposal, you should try'em all to decide for yourself what "great" actually sounds like. My only word of advice is try the A8 first, as chances are, you won't feel the need to try others after that.

HTH,

 

[AR999]

Re: Magnet swap in a Low Output pickup.

I'll take your advice there, I was going to start with one of the A5's, but upon your recommendation, I'll try the A8 first, hopefully sometime tomorrow or Saturday. My initial thought was the A8 but I've used A5's so long my brain went to automatic mode. I appreciate your input as well as everyone else's, but it always seems you nail what someone is looking for out of a magnet/pickup combo.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Magnet swap in a Low Output pickup.

i dont see any reason why a8 wouldnt work for what you want. i dont usually care for the hardness a8 gives to the tone compared to a2 but theres no reason it cant work in a low wind pup.

 

[AR999]

Re: Magnet swap in a Low Output pickup.

I have just swapped everything in and out besides an A4, right now it is going to bed with an A5 Roughcast in it, Scientific experiments will continue over the weekend, I'll update my findings, as of right now, I just don't think I like the pickup itself.... But I'm tired and my ears and fingers are shot.

~AR

 

[AR999]

Re: Magnet swap in a Low Output pickup.

Pepe/LtKoJack,
I did start with the A8 that is a loud magnet it actually caught me off guard, but it is about the most polar opposite of the A2 like you said.

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Magnet swap in a Low Output pickup.

Pepe/LtKoJack,
I did start with the A8 that is a loud magnet it actually caught me off guard, but it is about the most polar opposite of the A2 like you said.

Ok. Now give it two or three days for the new magnetic circuit to stabilize (lesser powerful mags take longer to stabilize, fx. up to a whole month for an A3, even though I acknowledge being pretty anal about these things, LOL), then start looking for the "sweet spot". It might be closer to the strings than you would expect, despite the magnet being "loud", as you call it.

Good news is, you don't have to compromise for the bridge p'up to "play nice" with the neck p'up!

Have fun with it, and don't forget to keep us informed about the outcome, will ya?

Yours very truly,